Hi Michael
You may not be aware of how minuscule the font you've chosen for your
email comes out at the email receiver's end, but it's close to
unreadably tiny, as well as being a low-x-height, lightweight serif font
in the first place. If you have any control over your outgoing font
size, goosing it up a few points would be a kindness.
Kalia
I'm going to go with Andrea's well-written note on this. I understand that the goal is to prevent people from dancing with people who really make them uncomfortable (i.e. creepers). However, if you suggest "if you need to make changes, do so now", that will open up the potential for people to refuse a shadow for ANY reason (they smell, they're too fat, they're too old, they're not my BFF, they're the same gender, they're a beginner, whatever), and that could cause a whole world of hurt - especially in a community where we welcome all and celebrate differences in people. There is no graceful way to do this, really, that I can think of.
For the most part, if there is someone that a person does not want to encounter in a dance, much less be a shadow, that person will find a different line to dance in. At least that has been my experience. Callers should not be encouraging people to find someone "better" than the potluck shadow that they got. I would suggest not calling a dance with a shadow swing - that would ward off potential problems with shadows people don't want to swing and also prevent the hurt that would come with suggesting people make changes for whatever reason.
Perry
From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:06 AM
Subject: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
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Contra Dance Etiquette for the Guys
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Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
Chis asked: "Any chance that that could be made a separate topic, for those that wish to rehash it?
Maybe, but only on a Monday Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 2:59 PM, Chris Page via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Ummm... the question was asked about ways to mitigate a shadow swing, assuming you want to call a shadow swing dance. And the original poster asked not to be derailed by whether or not a shadow swing is something you wish to call in the first place.
Any chance that that could be made a separate topic, for those that wish to rehash it?
-Chris Page
San Diego
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 12:54 PM, Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Luke: Your assessment is inaccurate. This is not a matter where levity is acceptable.Creating a situation which could force someone into close, almost intimate proximity with a person perceived as emotionally or physically threatening is inappropriate.A lesser problem is that one can get a shadow who one considers personable, but very unpleasant for swinging (for example, due to either height difference, or a body position or weight distribution which unnecessarily strains one's own body). Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Tuesday, September 8, 2015 11:06 AM
Subject: [Callers] Shadow Swing Disclaimers?
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
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Maia - I have checked and the dance is in Carol's book "The Lizard
Research Institute" which should be available thru CDSS.
Anyway to quote Carol out of the book/"Because this dance has more
satisfying interactions with one's shadow than with one's partner//, I
have dancers line up in Becket formation, roll away with a half sashay
and swing the one they meet, and take hands f//our from there ( with//a
couple out at the top of the set ). I then explain that the person
they asked to dance is now their shadow, the one they swung is their
partner, and I tell them why. Inevitable, some dancers are not listening
when I explain this, even if I repeat it a few times;try it at your own
risk.
/I have danced and called this dance and enjoyed it.
This may not solve your dilemma but rather just moved it. Just a
suggestion.
Jane Ewing
Grant, AL
Seems to me Carol Ormand has one where you start the dance by putting
your Partner in the Shadows position.
I may be wrong about that.
Would that solve your problem?
Jane Ewing
Grant, AL
An equally great dance without a shadow swing that can replace any dance with a shadow swing.What dance(s) with a shadow swing do feel so compelled to call ? Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
An equally great dance without a shadow swing exists that can replace any dance with a shadow swing.What dance(s) with a shadow swing do you feel so compelled to call ? Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844
On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:07 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hey all,
First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the conversation I want to have in this thread; I ask that you respond to the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this particular thread. This should help keep this thread on track and hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv. Thanks!
Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this method? Suggestions of others?
Cheers.Maia
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Luke,
The "tripletesque" suggest is a neat one... I had been pondering how a
Shadow Swing dance is similar to many four-face-fours or squares. In those
cases dancers more carefully choose who is in their formation. Your idea to
just have shorter lines that are chosen both gives the dancers the
opportunity to choose neighbors (and thus, shadow) while also putting a
little boundary around the dance as "special", so a caller doesn't lose
confidence of some bristled dancers.
Ron
On Sep 8, 2015 1:30 PM, "Luke Donforth via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Maia,
>
> Let me see if I'm correctly reading your goals:
> You want to call dances with shadow swings
> You want to minimize discomfort
>
> To do both of those, I think an announcement after folks have lined up is
> worse than an announcement earlier. If someone is uncomfortable with the
> idea of swinging a shadow, how comfortable would they be leaving a line
> after you've made the announcement and highlighting for everyone in the
> room that there's a problematic interaction? There's no way to
> surreptitiously drop out; folks have to take new hands four and identify
> new shadows. I think making the announcement after folks have lined up just
> puts public pressure on your dancers.
>
> You can announce it ahead of time, either at the end of the previous
> dance; or even during the walkthrough of the previous dance. I know some
> callers do this for mixers: "Alright, thanks everyone for lining up and
> taking hands four. Just so you know, the dance after this will be a mixer.
> You'll keep your partner for this dance, but the one after don't expect to
> stay with your sweetheart." etc. Andrea raises a good point that it's hard
> to know where the shadow would be when you line up (or if someone lines up
> after you).
>
> Other options that come to mind:
>
> - Call these dances that are dear to you only in instances where it's
> unlikely to be an issue. I.e. small dance communities where you know
> everyone and know it'll be fine; or very large events (dance weekends, etc)
> where it's much less likely for you to run into someone you have a bad
> interaction with. If you had a festival session called "Shadow Dances";
> then anybody showing up is probably going to expect that they'll swing the
> occasional shadow.
> - As Ron suggested, you can modify the dance and say "and this move
> can be a swing". Might defeat why you're trying to call the dance though.
> - Make it triplet-esque; in that rather than full long lines, you
> break folks into small groups (10 dancers, etc) and run the dance for a
> short time. If there's a shadow, partner, and neighbor swing, chances are
> you don't want to run the dance super long anyway. You announce "find a
> partner and about 4 other couples for a special dance" and folks can self
> select a little more. Smaller groups also let more experienced dancers
> goof/chaos/play more with repetitive dances without throwing off large
> portions of the hall (I consider a dance with shadow & partner swing, with
> or without a neighbor swing; to have a high possibility of repetitiveness).
>
> Hope that helps get you thinking about other options too. Have fun, and
> remember we're there for the dancers to have a good time.
> Luke
>
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
>> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
>> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
>> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
>> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
>> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>>
>> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
>> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
>> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
>> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
>> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
>> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
>> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
>> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
>> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
>> method? Suggestions of others?
>>
>> Cheers.
>> Maia
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Luke Donforth
> Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Maia,
Let me see if I'm correctly reading your goals:
You want to call dances with shadow swings
You want to minimize discomfort
To do both of those, I think an announcement after folks have lined up is
worse than an announcement earlier. If someone is uncomfortable with the
idea of swinging a shadow, how comfortable would they be leaving a line
after you've made the announcement and highlighting for everyone in the
room that there's a problematic interaction? There's no way to
surreptitiously drop out; folks have to take new hands four and identify
new shadows. I think making the announcement after folks have lined up just
puts public pressure on your dancers.
You can announce it ahead of time, either at the end of the previous dance;
or even during the walkthrough of the previous dance. I know some callers
do this for mixers: "Alright, thanks everyone for lining up and taking
hands four. Just so you know, the dance after this will be a mixer. You'll
keep your partner for this dance, but the one after don't expect to stay
with your sweetheart." etc. Andrea raises a good point that it's hard to
know where the shadow would be when you line up (or if someone lines up
after you).
Other options that come to mind:
- Call these dances that are dear to you only in instances where it's
unlikely to be an issue. I.e. small dance communities where you know
everyone and know it'll be fine; or very large events (dance weekends, etc)
where it's much less likely for you to run into someone you have a bad
interaction with. If you had a festival session called "Shadow Dances";
then anybody showing up is probably going to expect that they'll swing the
occasional shadow.
- As Ron suggested, you can modify the dance and say "and this move can
be a swing". Might defeat why you're trying to call the dance though.
- Make it triplet-esque; in that rather than full long lines, you break
folks into small groups (10 dancers, etc) and run the dance for a short
time. If there's a shadow, partner, and neighbor swing, chances are you
don't want to run the dance super long anyway. You announce "find a partner
and about 4 other couples for a special dance" and folks can self select a
little more. Smaller groups also let more experienced dancers
goof/chaos/play more with repetitive dances without throwing off large
portions of the hall (I consider a dance with shadow & partner swing, with
or without a neighbor swing; to have a high possibility of repetitiveness).
Hope that helps get you thinking about other options too. Have fun, and
remember we're there for the dancers to have a good time.
Luke
On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> First, a disclaimer: Some people on this listserv thing shadow swings are
> problematic. Some don't see any issue with them. This is NOT the
> conversation I want to have in this thread; *I ask that you respond to
> the question I'm asking and do not debate my premise--at least not in this
> particular thread. *This should help keep this thread on track and
> hopefully reduce excess noise and go-nowhere discussions on this listserv.
> Thanks!
>
> Anyway, the actual question I wanted to ask (whew!)--
>
> There do exist some really fabulous shadow-swing dances that I would love
> to be able to call, as long as I could do so without putting anyone in an
> uncomfortable position. Do folks have ideas for ways to mitigate the
> potential harms of shadow swing dances? I was considering, at the beginning
> of the dance, having dancers identify their shadow and mentioning, "this
> will be a shadow swing dance, so if you need to make any changes, do so
> now" (or something like that)--haven't gotten the wording down-pat, but the
> idea is giving dancers advance warning of a shadow swing so they can move
> (thereby changing their shadow) if they need to. Any thoughts on this
> method? Suggestions of others?
>
> Cheers.
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
--
Luke Donforth
Luke.Donforth(a)gmail.com <Luke.Donev(a)gmail.com>
