The vast majority of roll aways in contra dance include the half sashay.
Looking at my database, only 1.9% of the contras with rollaway have one
person staying in place. (By way of comparison, 2,2% of the contras with
petronella turns have people going to the left, rather than the right.)
This may be because of habit, or because it's easier for the center of
rotation to be between two dancers, rather than one one person.
I'd still assume "roll away" to include an unstated "half sashay". If
you've got a dance that has one person staying put while the other rolls in
front of them, I'd recommend being very careful to indicate that in the
walkthough/written dance instructions.
-Chris Page
San Diego, CA
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Don Veino via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I have to respectively disagree here.
>
> In my experience, a "roll away" (RA) call has been conflated with a "roll
> away with a half sashay" (RAHS) for many dancers (and callers) - but the
> moves are distinct and can have choreographic significance. What I think
> has happened is that callers are using abbreviated calls of something like
> "roll" for the RAHS situation (which is more common) and that has colored
> the interpretation.
>
> In my understanding, the two calls are like this (the "|" symbol denoting
> the boundary between adjacent hands-four):
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies" (Ladies only change position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position G0 L2|G1 L3|G2 L4
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies with a Half Sashay" (Ladies and Gents swap
> position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position L1 G0|L2 G1|L3 G2
>
> Of course, this can be also done in other configurations like circles and
> boxes.
>
> I ran into this a short while ago while calling a new (to me) dance and
> having the walk-through fail. I knew the dance was right and my instruction
> was correct. Rather than try to figure it out on the fly I bailed to a
> fall-back dance. As I video most of my gigs, I was able to go back to that
> and see what happened.
>
> In this instance the difference between the calls was very significant. I
> called a RA but the dancers (mostly) did a RAHS. This was in a box
> configuration, meaning the dancer pairing became opposite to what was
> intended. The next time I call this dance I will be sure to say "Roll Away
> BUT NO Half Sashay, Gents stay put".
>
> -Don
>
>
Aahz said, "Bob Elling likes to point out that there is in fact a sashay
that basically is a reversed Mad Robin".
Hmmm... not sure what he meant by a "reversed Mad Robin".
He can't be talking about the original Mad Robin, as the move in that dance
involves casts.
And the modern contra version of the Mad Robin move doesn't have an implicit
direction for you to reverse! Those Mad Robins can go clockwise around the
person beside you or counter-clockwise.
I guess he meant, "a sashay that basically is counter-clockwise Mad Robin" -
MWSD half sashays are always counter-clockwise.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
I called it in Baltimore last Wednesday. It's helpful to tell the ladies that the first chain is to a shadow.
April Blum On Aug 24, 2015 10:06 AM, Jeremy Gmail via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I’m not sure if our American friends will realise it, but the name is a pun on the “Vickers Machine Gun”, one of the main weapons used by the British Army in the First World War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_machine_gun).
>
>
>
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Edmund Croft via Callers
> Sent: 17 August 2015 22:58
> To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Misplaced a dance...
>
>
>
> Valerie Young is looking for a dance featuring ladies' chains all over the place, then circles and pass thrus to get your partner back. As she came across it in the USA, it's unlikely to be the one I know, which is by ex- Cambridge (UK) dancer/choreographer Jacob Steel, unless someone exported it, having danced it at the Inter-Varsity Folk Dance Festival.
>
>
>
> The story Jacob uses for this one is that clergy are not permitted to use certain sorts of weapon, so this particular gun fires ladies rather than bullets:
>
>
>
> THE VICAR’S MACHINE GUN (R32) Becket Jacob Steel
> 1-8 Circle left ¾ and pass through up and down
> Circle left ½ and the men roll their neighbour across to change places
> 9-16 Ladies chain on the right diagonal. LCh across
> 17-24 LCh on the left diagonal. Ladies pass RSh into half a reel of 4 across
> 25-32 Balance and swing partner.
>
>
>
> Edmund Croft,
>
> Cambridge Folk of various sorts
Im not sure if our American friends will realise it, but the name is a pun
on the Vickers Machine Gun, one of the main weapons used by the British
Army in the First World War
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_machine_gun).
Jeremy
From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of
Edmund Croft via Callers
Sent: 17 August 2015 22:58
To: callers(a)sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Misplaced a dance...
Valerie Young is looking for a dance featuring ladies' chains all over the
place, then circles and pass thrus to get your partner back. As she came
across it in the USA, it's unlikely to be the one I know, which is by ex-
Cambridge (UK) dancer/choreographer Jacob Steel, unless someone exported it,
having danced it at the Inter-Varsity Folk Dance Festival.
The story Jacob uses for this one is that clergy are not permitted to use
certain sorts of weapon, so this particular gun fires ladies rather than
bullets:
THE VICARS MACHINE GUN (R32) Becket Jacob Steel
1-8 Circle left ¾ and pass through up and down
Circle left ½ and the men roll their neighbour across to change
places
9-16 Ladies chain on the right diagonal. LCh across
17-24 LCh on the left diagonal. Ladies pass RSh into half a reel of 4
across
25-32 Balance and swing partner.
Edmund Croft,
Cambridge Folk of various sorts
>From a MWSD perspective, Half Sashayed means that the dancers are in
opposite rolls. The call rollaway with/to a half sachay is now
discouraged, but it most often put the ladies on the man's left, thus they
were half sashayed. Today, as all position dance and dance by definition,
are commom MWSD terms the rollaway to a half sashay no longer works, but
that is the root of the confusion.
Acommon break sequence is
A1 Four ladies chain (8), Rollaway(4) and circle left (4)
A2 Four ladies rollaway (4) Circle left (4), Allemande Left
B1 R&L Grande (10), Dosiso (6)
B2 Promenade (16)
At the end of A1, the men have rotated 1/4 around the square, at the end of
A2, men have rotated 1/2. The R&L Grande brings them back to home for a
full promenade. The men are essentially stationary during the rollaway,
and move on the two circle left commands.
Half Sashay (4) is usually called to accomplish the role switch when it is
not a circle formation to begin. The sequence of Heads, R&L thru, Heads
Half Sashay, Heads Star Thru leaves the heads in the center of the square
facing their corner. This "half sashay" call requires the men to slide to
the right as the lady moves forward, slides left, and backs up.
The call "rollaway with a half sashay' is redundant effectively restoring
dancers to their original position. That is the reason it's use is
discouraged and being discontinued.
Rich
Stafford Springs, CT
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Don Veino via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I have to respectively disagree here.
>
> In my experience, a "roll away" (RA) call has been conflated with a "roll
> away with a half sashay" (RAHS) for many dancers (and callers) - but the
> moves are distinct and can have choreographic significance. What I think
> has happened is that callers are using abbreviated calls of something like
> "roll" for the RAHS situation (which is more common) and that has colored
> the interpretation.
>
> In my understanding, the two calls are like this (the "|" symbol denoting
> the boundary between adjacent hands-four):
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies" (Ladies only change position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position G0 L2|G1 L3|G2 L4
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies with a Half Sashay" (Ladies and Gents swap
> position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position L1 G0|L2 G1|L3 G2
>
> Of course, this can be also done in other configurations like circles and
> boxes.
>
> I ran into this a short while ago while calling a new (to me) dance and
> having the walk-through fail. I knew the dance was right and my instruction
> was correct. Rather than try to figure it out on the fly I bailed to a
> fall-back dance. As I video most of my gigs, I was able to go back to that
> and see what happened.
>
> In this instance the difference between the calls was very significant. I
> called a RA but the dancers (mostly) did a RAHS. This was in a box
> configuration, meaning the dancer pairing became opposite to what was
> intended. The next time I call this dance I will be sure to say "Roll Away
> BUT NO Half Sashay, Gents stay put".
>
> -Don
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't think there is a difference.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Claire Takemori via Callers wrote:
>>
>> In Contra dancing, what is the difference between "Roll your ___
>>> Across/along" and "Roll away with a half sashay"?
>>>
>>> What are your favorite words to teach this move?
>>>
>>> thanks!!
>>> claire takemori (Bay Area, CA)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Darn spell check... that was meant to be "respectfully." :)
I have to respectively disagree here.
On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 12:30 PM, Don Veino <sharedweight_net(a)veino.com>
wrote:
> I have to respectively disagree here.
>
> In my experience, a "roll away" (RA) call has been conflated with a "roll
> away with a half sashay" (RAHS) for many dancers (and callers) - but the
> moves are distinct and can have choreographic significance. What I think
> has happened is that callers are using abbreviated calls of something like
> "roll" for the RAHS situation (which is more common) and that has colored
> the interpretation.
>
> In my understanding, the two calls are like this (the "|" symbol denoting
> the boundary between adjacent hands-four):
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies" (Ladies only change position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position G0 L2|G1 L3|G2 L4
>
> "Gents Roll (Away) the Ladies with a Half Sashay" (Ladies and Gents swap
> position):
>
> Starting position G0 L1|G1 L2|G2 L3
> Ending position L1 G0|L2 G1|L3 G2
>
> Of course, this can be also done in other configurations like circles and
> boxes.
>
> I ran into this a short while ago while calling a new (to me) dance and
> having the walk-through fail. I knew the dance was right and my instruction
> was correct. Rather than try to figure it out on the fly I bailed to a
> fall-back dance. As I video most of my gigs, I was able to go back to that
> and see what happened.
>
> In this instance the difference between the calls was very significant. I
> called a RA but the dancers (mostly) did a RAHS. This was in a box
> configuration, meaning the dancer pairing became opposite to what was
> intended. The next time I call this dance I will be sure to say "Roll Away
> BUT NO Half Sashay, Gents stay put".
>
> -Don
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2015 at 11:38 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't think there is a difference.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Claire Takemori via Callers wrote:
>>
>> In Contra dancing, what is the difference between "Roll your ___
>>> Across/along" and "Roll away with a half sashay"?
>>>
>>> What are your favorite words to teach this move?
>>>
>>> thanks!!
>>> claire takemori (Bay Area, CA)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
In Contra dancing, what is the difference between "Roll your ___ Across/along" and "Roll away with a half sashay"?
What are your favorite words to teach this move?
thanks!!
claire takemori (Bay Area, CA)
Okay, technically the half sashay is different, but it's almost always
assumed. There are dances where one person stands still while the other
rolls away. In this case, the standing still person isn't half sashaying.
On Aug 22, 2015 12:25 PM, "Ron Blechner" <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> "____ Roll ____ across/along" is specific, while "roll away with a half
> sashay" is vague. They refer to the same basic thing.
>
> It's vague because it doesn't indicate who rolls who. In the context of a
> dance, words I use calling it may vary depending on context. When teaching
> a rollaway, this is one of the moves I spend a little extra time to
> emphasize shared weight between dancers.
> On Aug 22, 2015 11:39 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't think there is a difference.
>>
>> On Aug 21, 2015, at 5:19 PM, Claire Takemori via Callers wrote:
>>
>> In Contra dancing, what is the difference between "Roll your ___
>>> Across/along" and "Roll away with a half sashay"?
>>>
>>> What are your favorite words to teach this move?
>>>
>>> thanks!!
>>> claire takemori (Bay Area, CA)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Callers mailing list
>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
Thank you for all the replies so far ! One other question,
What are the key elements/movements that you would emphasize teaching with kids?
giving weight, hearing the music beats, swing, star, do si do, allemande...... ?
And I don't think they will do ballroom swing, so which swing is easy and fun for kids? 2 hands crossed? or right elbows?
Thank you so much for your help!
claire
