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2524 discussions

by Don Veino via Callers

Jefferson and Liberty. On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I have another question to pose: > > Is there precedent for naming a dance after a politician? > > While I may have voted for Bernie, I'm careful to not inject my political > view into my calling / choreography. (Though, on the other hand, if Bernie > doesn't win the nomination, in 5 years dancers will just hear "feel the > burn".) > > In Dance, > Ron Blechner > On Mar 27, 2016 8:24 AM, "Pat Hoekje via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> I am trying to visualize the circle R to star R with new neighbor from >> the women's place and I have to turn around (or drop from the circle right >> a bit early to star right with the next neighbor. What am I not seeing >> correctly or is that true? >> >> Thanks, >> Pat >> >> >> On Sunday, March 27, 2016 4:22 AM, Amy Wimmer via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> >> Tom and Erik are quite right about that swing. It lasts FOREVER, which >> is a little too long. I took Michael's suggestion and started at A2. >> I also took Michael's suggestion of turning the allemande into a >> two-eyed turn (an "eye-lemande" as my friend Matthew coined). Thank >> you for the suggestions for changing that bit. >> >> Two callers danced it tonight. One (my husband, Tom) thought the flow >> was good, but the swing was definitely too long. The other caller said >> she really liked that the mad robin wasn't with your partner, which >> she said tends to make a dance seem very partner-only-centric, >> ignoring the neighbors. She agreed with me that I need to figure out a >> better way to teach it. One of the band members noticed the long swing >> and said it needs some other element to break it up. >> >> This particular dance community has lots of beginners and folks who >> just don't dance very well. It took them a while to get the circle >> right-to star right transition. Tom thought that part was simple. He >> noticed that when one is out at the ends one should not cross over, >> but should stand "proper." >> >> I very much appreciate your input, guys. Next time I'll try some more >> of your ideas. >> >> -Amy >> >> > On Mar 26, 2016, at 5:50 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> wrote: >> > >> > Nice dance Amy. I really like the sequence of moves. >> > I'm trying to imagine this in my head and assume that the allemande >> right is once around which takes less than 8 beats to do. >> > >> > Hope you don't mind suggesting a change. I would change the allemande >> right to once and a half. That would give us: >> > >> > B2 neighbor allemande right 1 1/2 >> > ladies ric. men pass left >> > >> > T >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 9 months

[Callers] New dance?

by Amy Wimmer via Callers

While preparing to teach the beginners' session for tonight's dance in Olympia, WA, I jotted down several figures I could teach that would be simple enough, flow reasonably well and get them dancing. I looked at my list and said, "Huh! This looks like an actual dance." I was missing one figure to complete it. Today, while waiting for our caucus to begin, I decided on the final figure. My caller/musician friend, Valerie Cohen, who was sitting next to us, said I should call it the Caucus Shuffle. I said I was planning to call it "Feelin' the Bern," to which she responded, "Then it should progress left." You're welcome. I think the dance works whether one starts at A1 or A2. Starting at A2 would end with a partner swing, which is always nice at the end of the evening. At any rate, here's the dance. My questions are, 1) does this already exist? and 2) do you see any major problems with it? Feelin' the Bern Becket, improper contra A1 Partner swing (16) A2 Long lines forward and back (8) Mad robin (ladies go in front) (8) B1 Circle right 3 places (~8) New neighbors star right (8) B2 Neighbor allemande right (8) Half hey (gents pass left), ladies ricochet (8) -Amy P.S. I'm going to call it tonight, but not for the beginner session. I'll start by having everyone shuffle, single-file, around the oval of the set, until they return to where they started.

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Calling and timing

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

Can you give some examples of places where you think calling early for direction isn't compatible with calling for timing? (I had thought that the caller should always end their call the beat before the action should begin, teaching timing from the start and avoiding misleading experienced dancers.) On Mar 27, 2016 8:57 PM, "Roger Hayes via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Some thoughts on timing, in part inspired by the recent discussion of > "Young Adult Rose" (btw, I hope we get a series of dances up to and > including "Revered Elder Rose" -- alternatively "That Old Rascal Rose"). > > As the dancers get the dance into their body, I'll shift from calling > early for direction to calling on the beat for timing. Of course it would > be ideal to be able to do both; I think it's possible with artful word > choice, but not always, not for me. > > Sometimes I get the control thing going and want to exert a strong > influence over the timing -- "balance Now!". It's often more fun to shut > up and let the dancers sort out the timing - it's great to see people > adjust to make a dance flow. > > Sometimes I enjoy dancing a dance with imperfect timing or flow, just to > see how the hall will adjust and make sense of it. A lot of the figures we > dance are not so precise as we think they are; for example, many "allemande > once" figures are really more like 1/2, to reverse direction. This is why I > prefer to teach with "far enough so you can..." rather than "exactly N" -- > I want the dancers to think about flow and connection, not about completing > one figure before attending to the next. > > On the other hand, I'm a total curmudgeon about lazy not-quite-far-enough > circles. And being late for your neighbor? Awful. Breaks down the trust > that builds up when we're all there for each other, on time and in the > right place. > > - Roger Hayes > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by Erik Hoffman via Callers

On the 16-count swing. It can be totally enjoyable, but usually for experienced dancers. For a group of mostly beginners, even a 12-count swing can be a bit much. So, if I’m calling to a substantially beginning group, I’d turn it into a do-si-do and swing. I’ll even turn a balance & swing into a DSD & swing. I went through a short phase of changing endings to end a dance with a swing. Now, I just try to stay out of the way of the band. I much prefer them doing the big wind-up or the occasional fade-out and surprise the dancers. So I’ve stopped trying to advertise my presence by calling the last time through. But, if a dance starts with a partner swing, I often ask the band to pick a last-tune-in-the-set that permits them to play three B parts the very last time though the dance. This lets the band do a big wind-up, me keep my mouth shut, and still end the dance with that A1 partner swing. ~erik hoffman oakland, ca On the starting with a partner From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of tavi merrill via Callers Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2016 5:39 PM To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net; callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net Subject: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish … A 16-count swing does go on forever. But it is also awesome - and i mean truly awesome - to have a full 12-count swing plus 4 counts to pull off one of the more time consuming flourishes (like the ripcord twirl, seen in the wild here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR6SxWsM4&list=RDIVquC0jqCXs&t=2m2s and taught here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyoOPc0rHQ, one of my favorite swing ending flourishes but one that takes too much time to be executed in an 8-count swing window). I know attitudes on twirls vary, so i should state clearly my opinion: i think flourishes, while neither traditional nor intrinsic to our dance form, add a lot to contra when they are executed safely, consensually, and in a manner mindful of the foursome and set as a whole. That to me implies that when and how to use twirls well - and how to time them - can be a potential style point when dances allow for them, particularly where a 16-count swing may bore or tire dancers, yet allows plenty of time to flourish and arrive on time for the next move. We could, as choreographers, maybe even write more 16-count swings for use with the crowds that love to flourish. Less subtle: If you're calling a 16-count swing, why not point out to the dancers there's no excuse for arriving late after a flourish? The A1 placement of the partner swing in Amy's dance "Feelin' the Bern" also appeals to me for a quite specific reason. Some callers are of a mind that every dance should end with a swing, while others (this camp including myself) feel that getting back on the microphone to change the final B to accomplish that is bad form, but do appreciate the elegance of being with or at least aimed toward your partner at the end of a dance and try to facilitate that effect when possible, and others don't give a crap about where dancers are facing when the music stops. (NOTE: This is to acknowledge the various camps, not to launch a thread on which approach is better!!!) Flowing from this, i fully support A1 partner swings, because it's another way to accomplish the aimed-toward-partner-when-dance-ends thing that doesn't involve an A1 circle L or slide. ;-) On a slightly different but related note: As i work to assemble a DJ repertoire of contradanceable EDM, i've noticed that many remixes are perfectly contra-ready save for a "build to drop" element that occurs in the music where the B2 ends, in effect adding from 4 to 8 counts to the B2 but usually only once through. Rather than re-working the track to eliminate the build/drop element, which would create the feeling something substantial is missing, I'm toying with the notion of pairing such material with B2 swings so dancers get a slightly longer swing during that iteration of the dance. Thinking getting back on microphone to say "keep swinging" and then prompt the A1 with recorded music isn't such bad form. Open to feedback on that. I'd appreciate if folks keep responses to this message positive/constructive in tone (vis-a-vis argumentative or dismissive) as i've been super depressed lately and positivity helps. Hope you all are having a good holiday weekend whether you're celebrating Easter or recovering from a raucous Purim or burning off all those Newroz treats or still doing laundry after Holi (did i get them all?!) Tavi

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by tavi merrill via Callers

Precisely. What Jeff says here is to me much more than an aside as it helps define and clarify my thoughts around the main point i was trying to make. Dancers are accustomed to swinging for anywhere from 8 to 12 counts (as a balance and swing is 16, minus the 4 counts a balance takes), thus a swing longer than 12 counts feels too long. "Counting from the end" is nigh impossible, as we get wrapped up in the experience of the swing and it's mostly those who are well-developed musicians and/or who know contra tunes by heart that can pick up on where in the musical phrase they are without counting and thus judge how far from the end of the phrase they are and correctly time the initiation of a 4-count flourish. But in the event that a 16-count swing happens, the moment when it suddenly feels like too long a swing (that moment where we pass 12 counts MAY be perceptible to everyone, not just musicians, because we're conditioned to swinging for no more than 12 counts) could perhaps become the cue to initiate a 4-count flourish and magically arrive on time. It's just a hypothesis based on dancer behavior and my experience as a caller and musician, but it may bear testing out. I'd be curious to hear how an experiment goes if someone calls 16 count swings where dancers have been instructed to initiate 4-count ending flourishes the moment they feel they've swung for a normal amount of time. (Might just try running that experiment myself at a May 7 workshop i'm co-leading.) On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 6:36 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff.t.kaufman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hmm, I think I've seen people be late with it on twice count swings too? > My interpretation is more like, when dancers are starting to learn swing > ending flourishes the "counting from the end" to end things on time is > hard, and they tend to be late a lot. The longer the flourish they're > trying to lead, the longer in advance they need to start it and the less > likely they are to leave enough time? > > (This is all still an aside, though, and I'm interested in discussion of > the main point of your post.) > >

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by Erik Barry Erhardt via Callers

Tavi, contradanceable EDM (electronic dance music): I've now been doing this for years. Here's my early notes on it to help get others started, including some technical musical editing considerations with examples. Each year I make one to three 45-90 minute continuous techno medleys which I call at camps. http://statacumen.com/pub/fun/ErikBErhardt_CrossoverContras_MusicAndDanceMe… Erik -- Prof. Erik B. Erhardt, UNM Statistics, (505)750-4424 stat.unm.edu/~erike On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 6:38 PM, tavi merrill via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hola all, > > So Amy's followup to her "Is this a new dance" query brought up something > i've been thinking about for a while. (Amy & Tom - i'm collecting it with > Tom's B2 modification and attributing it as Wimmer, variation Hinds.) > > A 16-count swing does go on forever. But it is also awesome - and i mean > truly awesome - to have a full 12-count swing plus 4 counts to pull off one > of the more time consuming flourishes (like the ripcord twirl, seen in the > wild here > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR6SxWsM4&list=RDIVquC0jqCXs&t=2m2s and > taught here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyoOPc0rHQ, one of my > favorite swing ending flourishes but one that takes too much time to be > executed in an 8-count swing window). > > I know attitudes on twirls vary, so i should state clearly my opinion: i > think flourishes, while neither traditional nor intrinsic to our dance > form, add a lot to contra when they are executed safely, consensually, and > in a manner mindful of the foursome and set as a whole. That to me implies > that when and how to use twirls well - and how to time them - can be a > potential style point when dances allow for them, particularly where a > 16-count swing may bore or tire dancers, yet allows plenty of time to > flourish and arrive on time for the next move. We could, as > choreographers, maybe even write more 16-count swings for use with the > crowds that love to flourish. Less subtle: If you're calling a 16-count > swing, why not point out to the dancers there's no excuse for arriving late > after a flourish? > > The A1 placement of the partner swing in Amy's dance "Feelin' the Bern" > also appeals to me for a quite specific reason. Some callers are of a mind > that every dance should end with a swing, while others (this camp including > myself) feel that getting back on the microphone to change the final B to > accomplish that is bad form, but do appreciate the elegance of being with > or at least aimed toward your partner at the end of a dance and try to > facilitate that effect when possible, and others don't give a crap about > where dancers are facing when the music stops. (NOTE: This is to > acknowledge the various camps, not to launch a thread on which approach is > better!!!) Flowing from this, i fully support A1 partner swings, because > it's another way to accomplish the aimed-toward-partner-when-dance-ends > thing that doesn't involve an A1 circle L or slide. ;-) > > On a slightly different but related note: As i work to assemble a DJ > repertoire of contradanceable EDM, i've noticed that many remixes are > perfectly contra-ready save for a "build to drop" element that occurs in > the music where the B2 ends, in effect adding from 4 to 8 counts to the B2 > but usually only once through. Rather than re-working the track to > eliminate the build/drop element, which would create the feeling something > substantial is missing, I'm toying with the notion of pairing such material > with B2 swings so dancers get a slightly longer swing during that iteration > of the dance. Thinking getting back on microphone to say "keep swinging" > and then prompt the A1 with recorded music isn't such bad form. Open to > feedback on that. > > I'd appreciate if folks keep responses to this message > positive/constructive in tone (vis-a-vis argumentative or dismissive) as > i've been super depressed lately and positivity helps. Hope you all are > having a good holiday weekend whether you're celebrating Easter or > recovering from a raucous Purim or burning off all those Newroz treats or > still doing laundry after Holi (did i get them all?!) > > Tavi > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

Hmm, I think I've seen people be late with it on twice count swings too? My interpretation is more like, when dancers are starting to learn swing ending flourishes the "counting from the end" to end things on time is hard, and they tend to be late a lot. The longer the flourish they're trying to lead, the longer in advance they need to start it and the less likely they are to leave enough time? (This is all still an aside, though, and I'm interested in discussion of the main point of your post.) On Mar 27, 2016 9:19 PM, "tavi merrill" <tavi(a)tavimerrill.com> wrote: > Needs 4 counts (8 beats) to be executed well. My experience is that using > it on 8-count swings makes a lot of people late, because most aren't > willing to cut the swing off early enough to fit the twirl in without being > late. Hence the usefulness of 16-count swings / utility of flourishes to > 16-count swings, which i see as a reciprocal relationship. > > On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff.t.kaufman(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> On Mar 27, 2016 8:38 PM, "tavi merrill via Callers" < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > like the ripcord twirl, seen in the wild here >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR6SxWsM4&list=RDIVquC0jqCXs&t=2m2s >> and taught here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyoOPc0rHQ, one of my >> favorite swing ending flourishes but one that takes too much time to be >> executed in an 8-count swing window >> > >> >> This is a tangent, but that flourish looks like only four beats to me? >> > >

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by tavi merrill via Callers

Needs 4 counts (8 beats) to be executed well. My experience is that using it on 8-count swings makes a lot of people late, because most aren't willing to cut the swing off early enough to fit the twirl in without being late. Hence the usefulness of 16-count swings / utility of flourishes to 16-count swings, which i see as a reciprocal relationship. On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 6:05 PM, Jeff Kaufman <jeff.t.kaufman(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mar 27, 2016 8:38 PM, "tavi merrill via Callers" < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > like the ripcord twirl, seen in the wild here > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR6SxWsM4&list=RDIVquC0jqCXs&t=2m2s and > taught here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyoOPc0rHQ, one of my > favorite swing ending flourishes but one that takes too much time to be > executed in an 8-count swing window > > > > This is a tangent, but that flourish looks like only four beats to me? >

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Thoughts on B2/A1 swings and having time to flourish

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

On Mar 27, 2016 8:38 PM, "tavi merrill via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > like the ripcord twirl, seen in the wild here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVpR6SxWsM4&list=RDIVquC0jqCXs&t=2m2s and taught here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbyoOPc0rHQ, one of my favorite swing ending flourishes but one that takes too much time to be executed in an 8-count swing window > This is a tangent, but that flourish looks like only four beats to me?

8 years, 9 months

Re: [Callers] Rates for private events (weddings etc)?

by Martha Wild via Callers

After having some serious delays at weddings (like 5 hours between when we were supposed to be on and when we actually went on) I now (either as a caller or with one of my bands) charge at least $100-$150 per band/caller person, but include the caveat that a half hour delay is free, but every half hour after that is an extra $50 (not per person but total). This seems to be enough to have made people be a lot tighter on getting to the dancing on time. Martha > On Mar 26, 2016, at 11:55 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > I would ask for about 3x more for a wedding then for an evening of dancing: > > * weddings are a lot of hassle > > * you're only playing/calling for a short time, but you need to be there very early and schedules are not reliable at weddings -- this may be worse for bands than callers > > * people spend so much at most weddings these days that they're typically willing to pay whatever (once I let someone negotiate me down a lot by them saying they were trying to save money and when I got therei found out that the food cost more per guest then they were paying each of us) > > * I'd charge much less or free for a friend, especially if I would be at their wedding anyway: it's like a wedding gift > > On Mar 26, 2016 2:23 PM, "Michael Fuerst via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > Central Illinois where I live? $35-50, although our local callers would probably do such for free. > NYC? $2000, but $3000 if on a weekend > > Michael Fuerst 802 N Broadway Urbana IL 61801 217 239 5844 <tel:217%20239%205844> > > > On Saturday, March 26, 2016 1:13 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > > > Hey folks, > > I've just been asked to call a wedding, and I don't have a good idea for what the going rate for these things is. What do you all charge for a wedding (say, 30 mins-an hour of dancing)? (And how might you adjust this rate for NYC?) > > Thanks, > Maia > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net <http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 9 months

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