Import1 March 2018

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83 discussions

[Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

by Kalia Kliban

I appreciate the point that several have made that a term that sounds just like gypsy isn't a reasonable substitute. Fair enough. The search continues... Kalia in Sebastopol

7 years

Re: [Callers] Fwd: More substitute terms for the g-word

by Don Veino

Or simply not do it as it's been covered many times before? Please, let's not travel down this hole again. Michael, search is your friend, for example https://www.google.com/search?q=contra+dance+gypsy+slur gets you a couple of top results. Other terms may yield more info. On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chris Page via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> > Date: Wed, … [View More]Mar 14, 2018 at 1:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word > To: Michael Barraclough <michael(a)michaelbarraclough.com> > > > And could we please do this under a separate thread so it doesn’t drown > out the original question? > > -Chris Page > San Diego > > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 1:44 PM Michael Barraclough via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Could someone please explain to me why the word gyp*** is considered a >> racial slur. I note that the body that represents gyp***s in the USA calls >> itself the Gypsy Council USA and in the UK it is the Gypsy Council. This is >> the term they have chosen to represent their ethnicity and they seem to be >> proud of it. Who are we to disagree? >> >> Michael Barraclough >> http://michaelbarraclough.com >> >> >> On 03/14/2018 01:33 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: >> >> I think having a word that sounds similar is an asset, not a liability. >> I have used look-see quite successfully. In years, few will know that a >> "look-see" used to be called as a G... I have also used Walk 'round with >> no problem. >> >> My initial attempt was Hipsy, but Linda Leslie quickly, and prudently >> discouraged such usage. >> >> Rich >> >> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Martha Wild via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> I don’t see that if you substitute a term that ends with a long e it >>> should be nixed just for that reason. OK, maybe kipsy might be considered >>> just a euphemism. But "Look-see", as described by Susan Michaels, has the >>> virtue of involving the fact that you are looking at the other person, and >>> seeing them. Why shouldn’t we choose a term that’s easier to substitute and >>> remember to use like “Look-see” instead of the bland, cold, bulky, >>> impossible to shorten, “right shoulder round” (or left shoulder round). >>> Martha >>> >>> > On Mar 14, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers < >>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > I appreciate the point that several have made that a term that sounds >>> just like gypsy isn't a reasonable substitute. Fair enough. The search >>> continues... >>> > >>> > Kalia in Sebastopol >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > List Name: Callers mailing list >>> > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight. >>> net/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List Name: Callers mailing list >>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List Name: Callers mailing list >> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List Name: Callers mailing list >> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > > [View Less]

7 years

Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

by Michael Barraclough

Could someone please explain to me why the word gyp*** is considered a racial slur. I note that the body that represents gyp***s in the USA calls itself the Gypsy Council USA and in the UK it is the Gypsy Council. This is the term they have chosen to represent their ethnicity and they seem to be proud of it. Who are we to disagree? Michael Barraclough http://michaelbarraclough.com On 03/14/2018 01:33 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: > I think having a word that sounds similar is … [View More]an asset, not a > liability. I have used look-see quite successfully. In years, few > will know that a "look-see" used to be called as a G... I have also > used Walk 'round with no problem. > > My initial attempt was Hipsy, but Linda Leslie quickly, and prudently > discouraged such usage. > > Rich > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Martha Wild via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > > I don’t see that if you substitute a term that ends with a long e > it should be nixed just for that reason. OK, maybe kipsy might be > considered just a euphemism. But "Look-see", as described by Susan > Michaels, has the virtue of involving the fact that you are > looking at the other person, and seeing them. Why shouldn’t we > choose a term that’s easier to substitute and remember to use like > “Look-see” instead of the bland, cold, bulky, impossible to > shorten, “right shoulder round” (or left shoulder round). > Martha > > > On Mar 14, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > > > > I appreciate the point that several have made that a term that > sounds just like gypsy isn't a reasonable substitute. Fair > enough. The search continues... > > > > Kalia in Sebastopol > > _______________________________________________ > > List Name: Callers mailing list > > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > > Archives: > https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/> > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > Archives: > https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ [View Less]

7 years

[Callers] Fwd: More substitute terms for the g-word

by Chris Page

---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Chris Page <chriscpage(a)gmail.com> Date: Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word To: Michael Barraclough <michael(a)michaelbarraclough.com> And could we please do this under a separate thread so it doesn’t drown out the original question? -Chris Page San Diego On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 1:44 PM Michael Barraclough via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Could … [View More]someone please explain to me why the word gyp*** is considered a > racial slur. I note that the body that represents gyp***s in the USA calls > itself the Gypsy Council USA and in the UK it is the Gypsy Council. This is > the term they have chosen to represent their ethnicity and they seem to be > proud of it. Who are we to disagree? > > Michael Barraclough > http://michaelbarraclough.com > > > On 03/14/2018 01:33 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote: > > I think having a word that sounds similar is an asset, not a liability. I > have used look-see quite successfully. In years, few will know that a > "look-see" used to be called as a G... I have also used Walk 'round with > no problem. > > My initial attempt was Hipsy, but Linda Leslie quickly, and prudently > discouraged such usage. > > Rich > > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 4:25 PM, Martha Wild via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> I don’t see that if you substitute a term that ends with a long e it >> should be nixed just for that reason. OK, maybe kipsy might be considered >> just a euphemism. But "Look-see", as described by Susan Michaels, has the >> virtue of involving the fact that you are looking at the other person, and >> seeing them. Why shouldn’t we choose a term that’s easier to substitute and >> remember to use like “Look-see” instead of the bland, cold, bulky, >> impossible to shorten, “right shoulder round” (or left shoulder round). >> Martha >> >> > On Mar 14, 2018, at 1:11 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > >> > I appreciate the point that several have made that a term that sounds >> just like gypsy isn't a reasonable substitute. Fair enough. The search >> continues... >> > >> > Kalia in Sebastopol >> > _______________________________________________ >> > List Name: Callers mailing list >> > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List Name: Callers mailing list >> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > [View Less]

7 years

Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

by Martha Wild

Yeah, except we keep trying different terms here in San Diego, as well as having callers who havent changed it, so there is no one word to put on the map here yet. > On Mar 14, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Linda S. Mrosko via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Perhaps someone, not me, should draw up a map of the term used in place of "gypsy" in the various parts of the country so traveling callers will know what to use if they call there. The map can also be … [View More]

7 years

Re: [Callers] Callers Digest, Vol 47, Issue 8

by Eric Limbach

Re: More substitute terms for the g-word I have used the term "Romanesque" for the move - its a sloppy miss-use of the word "Roman" but it has the Roma kernel in it. And most people recognise that it is a word for something. Cheers, Eric Limbach Pocatello, ID On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 2:11 PM, <callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Send Callers mailing list submissions to > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World … [View More]Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers- > sharedweight.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > callers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > callers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Callers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Martha Wild) > 2. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Chip Hedler) > 3. Re: Programming a Dance (Jean Gibson-Gorrindo) > 4. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Donna Hunt) > 5. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Yoyo Zhou) > 6. Re: Programming a Dance (Dugan Murphy) > 7. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Russell Frank) > 8. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Elizabeth Szekeres) > 9. Re: Programming a Dance (Bob Peterson) > 10. Re: Programming a Dance (Mary Collins) > 11. Re: Programming a Dance (Mary Collins) > 12. Re: Programming a Dance (Linda S. Mrosko) > 13. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Linda S. Mrosko) > 14. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Cara Sawyer) > 15. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Andrea Nettleton) > 16. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Bob Hofkin) > 17. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Angela DeCarlis) > 18. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Don Veino) > 19. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Cheryl Joyal) > 20. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Amy Wimmer) > 21. Re: More substitute terms for the g-word (Linda S. Mrosko) > 22. More substitute terms for the g-word (Kalia Kliban) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2018 13:07:54 -0700 > From: Martha Wild <mawild(a)sbcglobal.net> > To: John W Gintell <john(a)gintell.org> > Cc: Perry Shafran <pshaf(a)yahoo.com>, Caller's discussion list > <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word > Message-ID: <8BC4AEB3-D1F9-45AC-AC8F-E27E00719F80(a)sbcglobal.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I don?t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It?s > descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can?t be easily > shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So, > I?m sorry, but I?m not going to be using it. > Martha > > > On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > > I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all > dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just > the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One of > the reasons why beginners don?t return is that it is too confusing. > > > > And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive. > > > >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Perry Shafran via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> > wrote: > >> > >> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since > three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I > like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I > think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound > fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like > that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring > descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let > the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, > based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I > plan to stick with "right shoulder round". > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List Name: Callers mailing list > > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > > [View Less]

7 years

Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

by Cheryl Joyal

I first heard Dugan Murphy use “right shoulder round” and it worked well. I have adopted it and it is well received and does work well for me calling wise Cheryl Joyal 630-667-3284 Sent from my iPhone On Mar 14, 2018, at 11:12 AM, Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: Quick note to all: while "Right Shoulder 'Round" seems like a mouthful at four syllables, the words are easily spoken in two beats of music (or two and a half depending how you count). … [View More]It takes only half a beat more to say than common moves like "Balance and Swing" or "Allemande Left," and takes exactly the same amount of time to say as "Go Forward and Back." Common phrases like "With Your Neighbor Dosido" take nearly twice as long to say. So before you judge a phrase as unwieldy, give it a few test runs by yourself, to a beat or to recorded music. :) Angela > On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 10:53 AM Bob Hofkin via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Andrea, > > The discussions make it clear that: (1) there is a need to use > terminology other than "gypsy," at least in some venues, and (2) there > is no generally-agreed substitute term. > > A lot of callers see that as an impediment to clear and concise > teaching/calling. I have certainly experienced confusion and annoyance > as a dancer. I believe that the folk process will provide a solution, > but I appreciate the efforts to accelerate what could otherwise take > many years to resolve. > > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results > seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good > candidates, it might be time to debate their merits. > > Bob > > On 3/14/2018 03:31, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > Here we are once more, sharing our likes and dislikes, our preferred term (I’ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my attention) of the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again? Though everyone is polite, and thankfully we haven’t begun to rehash whether gypsy is a slur or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to clarify for one and all a single, simple, right answer. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sure there is one. But I’m positive we won’t get there by having more of the same back and forth we’ve already had. While I R eyelemande my neighbor, you’re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can tell, that’s where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from the specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the debate? And if we can’t, just let the experiment continue without rehashing the already well trodden ground? > > Thanks, > > Andrea > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> > >> Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy. Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort of like Kipsy! > >> > >> Guess what they say about great minds is true! > >> > >> Sent using two thumbs > >> > >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 14:41, Perry Shafran via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >>> > >>> I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I plan to stick with "right shoulder round". > >>> > >>> Perry > >>> > >>> > >>> From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > >>> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 2:03 PM > >>> Subject: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word > >>> > >>> Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don’t like “right shoulder round” (I’m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say, particularly when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you do with right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the similarity and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people just seemed confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from Susan Michaels - “look-see” That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two syllable call, and it’s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other person. Check out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/groups/62950211264/permalink/10155943260651265/ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list > >>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> List Name: Callers mailing list > >>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > >>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> List Name: Callers mailing list > >> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > >> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > List Name: Callers mailing list > > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > List Name: Callers mailing list > List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ [View Less]

7 years

Re: [Callers] More substitute terms for the g-word

by Amy Wimmer

For what it's worth, I danced a "right shoulder 'round" (so far it's what I've been using) with someone who remarked, "I really dislike that term. It makes me think of a side of beef." OOF! Now that's all I can think of when I hear the term. I like "swoop." This is the first time I've heard that proposed. It's short, sweet and descriptive. I may give that a test whirl. I can imagine the wings coming out in our community. I've heard "pixie" and don't care for it. It seems too cute, too close … [View More]to gypsy, and isn't descriptive. I know many terms are not descriptive, but this doesn't have anything going for it, in my book, except it's short and easy to say. I appreciate knowing what has worked in other communities, and as long as the conversation stays constructive and informative I am all for it. -Amy On Mar 14, 2018 9:04 AM, "Don Veino via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: I've successfully tried both Glance (around) and Swoop (around) with dancers. Several have told me they really liked Swoop and thought it was the best alternative they've heard so far (and I've seen folks having fun making "wings" on the floor as they do it). A caution on terms that explicitly use "eye" in them: we have a regular dancer who is blind and that person and their friends are strongly offended by those terms. As eye locking is styling and not the essential motion, it's not necessary to the call. Also, on some of these sound-alike terms... if I were to call you a "plucking gerk" would you not be offended just the same? I submit for the same reason that a replacement term we settle on should not sound like the original term we're trying to replace. Similar metrics, sure - but not a minor tweak of the original sound. For this reason I've never tried making "Glance" into "Glancey." On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 10:52 AM, Bob Hofkin via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > [snip] > > I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their > degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid > rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an > empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results seems > like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good candidates, it > might be time to debate their merits. > > Bob > > <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/> > [snip] _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ [View Less]

7 years

Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance

by Linda S. Mrosko

Being in charge of a monthly "open band open mic dance," I rarely prepare -- but I usually have at least a couple of dances in mind, just in case. I never know if another caller will show up or if a room full of newcomers will show up. It's a small venue and the regular dancers are forgiving. For a regular dance, I do like to have a program and start with at least a sketch of a plan a week in advance. If it's a band I haven't worked with, ,I try to have a plan to them at least a week ahead … [View More]

7 years

Re: [Callers] Programming a Dance

by Mary Collins

I should addend my previous response to say I approach a dance preparation as I do a horse show. That's how my mind works. There is a plan and steps to it. Mary On Mar 13, 2018 6:15 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote: I usually start thinking about the program as soon as I book. Then as far out as two weeks I pull and practice dances, determine suitable music, refine a day or two before and then once at the dance change the whole program. Lol. Not really but once I get … [View More]

7 years

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Import1 March 2018