People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
Try your hand at some new lyrics!
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hello folks,
>
> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>
> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>
> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>
> Any Thoughts?
>
> Rich
> Stafford, CT
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
Historically, a lot has changed. Take the traditional singing square
"Marching Through Georgia." Does anyone really think the original song
is about ambling with friends along a quiet country road near Atlanta?
I have a thin 1989 book "Just One More Dance" by Carole Howard. It lists
scores of filler calls for Western Squares. A very wide range of filler
calls. Some would be great today, but others, well . . . Some examples:
"Buckskin breeches and calico dress
Let's head out to the cider press."
"Bite his ear and twist his tail,
Swing your honey, and home you sail."
"Grab that girl and kiss her twice,
Hurry up boys, here comes your wife."
"Promenade Rose, Promenade Myrtle,
Promenade the gal with the busted girdle."
"Spank them kids, listen to them squall.
Swing the opposite across the hall."
"Swing your partner and how-dee-do,
If I had a pistol, I'd shoot you."
"Allemande left like a broken hinge,
Grand right and left like a drunk on a binge."
"Good girls walk and bad girls ride,
Come on girls, my car's outside."
- - - - - - - - - -
Political correctness? Hmmmm. How many of us would call these phrases
today? Times have changed a bit, and so have our cultures and sensitivities.
I agree with Tom -- call the best you can, with respect; appreciate and
respect but don't worry about the words of others. We are artists, not
plumbers.
Woody
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 3/25/2018 10:36 AM, Yoyo Zhou via Callers wrote:
> It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to:
> http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891
>
> More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American
> folk song is based on:
> https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html
>
> In traditional songs things don't really have to work logically - for
> example, in this song, there's the lyric, "She's as tall as any pine,
> And as straight as a pumpkin vine." So the last verse of the song goes,
>
> "How old may she be,
> Billy Boy, Billy Boy?
> How old may she be,
> Charming Billy?
> Three times six and four times seven,
> Twenty eight and eleven,
> She's a young thing,
> And cannot leave her mother."
>
> This, despite the questionable math, puts the refrain into a very
> ironic context.
>
> My understanding of square dance singing calls is that many of them
> were set to popular music of the time (though I have no idea about
> this particular one). So if your audience was expected to know this
> song and the context behind the refrain, that would be one thing.
> Notably, though, the square dance-edited version is missing this
> context, and it adds the line"Promenade this pretty thing, won't you
> help me to sing" to the refrain, "She's a young thing, And cannot
> leave her mother"! So it'd be quite something else to hear this line
> on its own, which makes it sound like you should be promenading with
> your underage partners/corners.
>
> There's no universal answer to "is this acceptable" because it depends
> on your "contra dance crowd" who is doing the accepting - this can
> vary widely between dances, even within the same city. You'll have to
> figure out if the dancers are ok with it as is, might be ok with it if
> you give them some background about the song before you do the
> walkthrough, or would not be ok even with that. However, I think
> you'll find a lot of other material is less objectionable to any
> audience (and you already have some intuition for this, since you
> asked the callers list about this one).
>
> Yoyo Zhou
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Darwin Gregory via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> If you are concerned about sexism alternate between she/her and
> he/his. 😎
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:39 AM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any
> crowd.
> Try your hand at some new lyrics!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is
>> one I love by Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that
>> is sung during the Promenade is "She's a young thing, that
>> cannot leave her mother."
>>
>> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a
>> square.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo>
>>
>> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance
>> crowd with the tag line above? (The tag line is the only
>> line that is sung.)
>>
>> Any Thoughts?
>>
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>
I visited, more than once, an assisted living home, here in CT, to talk to a prominent caller of "back in the day".He told of dancing as a teen. So many young folks did then. The call was "swing her in the center and kiss her if you dare".He stammered and turned red as she poked fun at his shyness. They both ended up on the floor. They became friends, not
dates; but he did take her to the Senior Ball, filling in for her steady boyfriend, who for some reason, couldn't.
I still call - by a lady's request - Girl I Left Behind Me: "swing that girl, she's a cute little girl, swing that girl behind you - pass
right thru, and balance too" - her favorite! Then there's "push her away and watch her grin pull her right back and swing her again -
push her away and watch her smile - pull her right in and swing her awhile." It comes up.
Singing calls are indigenous to the US. And ubiquitous - back in the day of my shy caller.
Bob LivingstonMiddletown, CT
On Sunday, March 25, 2018, 1:12:51 AM EDT, Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hello folks,
I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
Any Thoughts?
RichStafford, CT_______________________________________________
List Name: Callers mailing list
List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
It looks like this is the version Rich is referring to:
http://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=1891
More background on the English folk song / sea shanty this American folk
song is based on:
https://mainlynorfolk.info/martin.carthy/songs/billyboy.html
In traditional songs things don't really have to work logically - for
example, in this song, there's the lyric, "She's as tall as any pine, And
as straight as a pumpkin vine." So the last verse of the song goes,
"How old may she be,
Billy Boy, Billy Boy?
How old may she be,
Charming Billy?
Three times six and four times seven,
Twenty eight and eleven,
She's a young thing,
And cannot leave her mother."
This, despite the questionable math, puts the refrain into a very ironic
context.
My understanding of square dance singing calls is that many of them were
set to popular music of the time (though I have no idea about this
particular one). So if your audience was expected to know this song and the
context behind the refrain, that would be one thing. Notably, though, the
square dance-edited version is missing this context, and it adds the
line "Promenade
this pretty thing, won't you help me to sing" to the refrain, "She's a
young thing, And cannot leave her mother"! So it'd be quite something else
to hear this line on its own, which makes it sound like you should be
promenading with your underage partners/corners.
There's no universal answer to "is this acceptable" because it depends on
your "contra dance crowd" who is doing the accepting - this can vary widely
between dances, even within the same city. You'll have to figure out if the
dancers are ok with it as is, might be ok with it if you give them some
background about the song before you do the walkthrough, or would not be ok
even with that. However, I think you'll find a lot of other material is
less objectionable to any audience (and you already have some intuition for
this, since you asked the callers list about this one).
Yoyo Zhou
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Darwin Gregory via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> If you are concerned about sexism alternate between she/her and he/his. 😎
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:39 AM Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
>> Try your hand at some new lyrics!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
>> Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the
>> Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>>
>> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>>
>> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
>> the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>>
>> Any Thoughts?
>>
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
Rich,
I agree with Tom. This is one of the most traditional tunes I grew up with.
Isn't one of CDSS' objectives to promote and continue TRADITIONAL song...
I say leave it alone.
Mary
On Sun, Mar 25, 2018, 1:12 AM Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hello folks,
>
> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
> Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the
> Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>
> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>
> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
> the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>
> Any Thoughts?
>
> Rich
> Stafford, CT
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
If I recall the folk song, it's more satirical--she can bake a cherry
pie and stuff, and turns out to be older than Billy lets on. See if you
can't find lines in one of the versions that shift the focus.
Bob
On 3/25/2018 02:07, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
> I've started doing singing squares over the past year and have been making
> adjustments to lyrics for each one I do. So far the changes have been
> relatively easy - mostly eliminating explicit gender and talking to
> everyone whenever possible vs. a "talk to the (assumed) lead" focus.
>
> There are real challenges for me in some popular ones - for example,
> despite the fun of the sequence, Smoke on the Water's
> https://squaredancehistory.org/items/show/1383 refrain's primary phrase
> essentially amounts to "we'll kill 'em all" - as it's taken from a 1944
> WWII song. I'm personally not ready to call that knowing the meaning and a
> significant re-wording of the key refrain is not likely to go over well
> with fans of the dance.
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 1:39 AM, Alexandra Deis-Lauby via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> People are not things. I don’t think it’s appropriate for any crowd.
>> Try your hand at some new lyrics!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello folks,
>>
>> I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
>> Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the
>> Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
>>
>> Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
>>
>> My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
>> the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
>>
>> Any Thoughts?
>>
>> Rich
>> Stafford, CT
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
Hello folks,
I have been calling singing squares for years, and there is one I love by
Dick Leger titled Billy Boy. The tag line that is sung during the
Promenade is "She's a young thing, that cannot leave her mother."
Here is a link to a version of the full song, not within a square.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKRJuLHU3Qo
My question is, is this song appropriate for the contra dance crowd with
the tag line above? (The tag line is the only line that is sung.)
Any Thoughts?
Rich
Stafford, CT
Passing this along. If someone wants to inquire about a dance *this
Saturday* in Southwest Vermont, you can reach out directly to Liz
Albertson, email below.
In dance,
Ron Blechner
---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Liz Albertson <lizjalbertson(a)gmail.com>
Date: Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 5:22 PM
Subject: Calling a dance 3.24
... was wondering if you are available to call a beginner/family-friendly
dance on March 24th in North Bennington? Thanks, Liz Albertson
One thing is missing from this discussion, and that is a recognition that
some embellishments occur between dancers who are dancing the same role.
For example, if the dance calls for two gents or two ladies to allemande
left once around, one those two dancers might start leading an allemande
twice around instead of once around. The principles of mutual consent and
of being alert to signals from the other dancer apply in this case as well.
Jacob
On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 12:55 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Thanks, Jack.
>
> I think we, as callers, ought to acknowledge there are 2 camps of dancers,
> believing either:
>
> 1. Gents/Larks role is implicitly "led", and ladies/Ravens role is
> implicitly "follow" (along with all of the good comments about consent,
> such as Maia's)
>
> 2. Contra is implicitly not lead/follow, and any initiating can be done
> from either role.
>
> Either way to dance can be valid. Because both are valid, then we cannot
> assume either is default. Thus, technically both viewpoints are wrong.
> Contra is not *implicitly* one or the other. And in fact, I dance both
> styles, depending on partner. Sometimes, I feel like one style and the very
> next dance I might feel like the other. Options!
>
> Neither viewpoint is universal, nor is either rare. Thus, if we don't
> acknowledge that these both exist, we are doing a huge disservice by
> denying dancers to dance the way they want to dance.
>
> Thus, as callers, the view we should treat lead/follow are *style*
> choices. And while some areas may have dominant styles, it's not right to
> stifle either. Thus I have several practical recommendations:
>
> 1. Refer to it as style choice.
> 2. Get to know what your dance partners' preference is. Don't presume one
> or the other.
> 3. Lead/Follow are not appropriate role terms, because they dismiss people
> whose style is not that.
> 4. Teach leading tips for both roles. Like, you have a long lines, and
> then a mad robin or gents/larks allemande left? The ladies/Ravens are
> leading the move by easing the gents/Larks into those moves.
>
> In dance,
> Ron Blechner
>
--
jandnbloom(a)gmail.com
http://jacobbloom.net/
View my Arlington Food Pantry fundraiser at
https://www.youcaring.com/arlington-food-pantry-621657
I just wanted to report in that I used “look-see” today with a group of K-8 elementary students and I thought it worked fabulously! They really understood the point of the move much better than the random g-word, and it was so cute to watch them intently and playfully gazing at each other as they went around. One of the band members particularly called out that she noticed my new language and thought it was brilliant and a big improvement.
Obviously this is a group with little to no prior associations or names for the move, so no baggage. It was just a great name that worked, at least with that younger crowd and their parents/teachers.
I mentioned the problem to the band that someone on this list raised about not offending blind dancers with words referring to eyes and seeing, but they pointed out that we say “right hand turn” which would be equally unfair to a dancer missing an arm, and they felt that wasn’t a reason not to use it, as there are many ways of “seeing”.
> On Mar 16, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I also use "face-to-face", which I learned from Eric. I've heard Steve Z-A and Lisa G switch to these terms, at least where I've heard them call.
>
> I also use "right shoulder round" when it's a multi-caller event and that's what people like. We agreed to this for Flurry Festival last month, and it worked well all weekend with thousands of dancers.
>
> I want to also echo that anything that sounds too much like g*psy is going to rub at least some people the wrong way. I also thought jets/rubies was a winner, and I've acknowledged that too many people think jet is a problem.
>
> In dance,
> Ron Blechner
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 12:00 AM Eric Black via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
> I’m still bemused and befuddled that not so many years ago, this dance move was decried because of perceived forced invasion of personal space. People did not want to be told that they had to make eye contact when they were not comfortable with it, that they did not like being told to flirt with people they did not choose. Some of us callers told dancers that the eye contact was optional, that the essential part of the move was that it was a face-to-face do-si-do, no spins or twirls, just moving around each other.
>
> Now the argument against the name of the move has completely lost all ground on that front.
>
> For some years I’ve used “face-to-face”, teaching it with the memorable description “imagine a short gold chain joining the rings in your noses”. Eye contact is optional, and not directed; dancers will or will not make eye contact as they choose. In private communication with a young caller who is very vocal in various discussion fora I said there was no need to attribute the term to me. Maybe I should have insisted.
>
> I’ve tried “right [left] shoulder round” with favorable reception.
>
> ANYway, if we’ve been making progress in removing real or perceived invasions of personal space, and gender issues, why regress in order to change the name of a dance move to make progress in removing real or perceived ethnic slurs?
>
> And no, “spiral” is out of the question. It’s a different move that includes changing the distance between the dancers, whereas the move under discussion does not. English dancers know the difference.
>
> Eric Black
> eric(a)eric-black.com <mailto:eric@eric-black.com>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>
Delia Clark
PO Box 45
Taftsville, VT 05073
Office/mobile: +1-802-457-2075
deliaclark8(a)gmail.com
www.deliaclarkconfluence.com
