Rich,
Let's do a bottom up estimate driven by an exerise. Stand comfortably,
hold the hands of the opposite role dancers on either side of you
(imaginary or real), and execute a long-lines-forward-and-back.
The distance from your left hand to your right hand is the distance
along the line that you and your partner occupy. People of different
sizes will have different comfort factors. We've all been in lines that
were too scrunched up and lines where we couldn't even reach the next
person. 3-5 feet per person feels acceptable to me, with about 4 feet
being a good compromise. Your foursome needs twice the space, of 8'.
That implies that 20 couples would do well with about an 80-foot line.
Of course, if you are doing any down-the-hall figures, you need some
extra space. Six steps at 2' per step is 12', but it's negotiable.
How far did you travel on your forward voyage? Again, everyone's
mileage will differ, but I think that about 1 foot per step is suitable,
so if you and your partner each take three steps, you would want 6 feet
between you to start with. That's consistent with taking four 1.5-foot
steps to walk across in a chain or a right-and-left through. Add an
allowance for your depth and your partner's depth, say 1.5' each, and
we're up to 10' width per set. The courtesy turn is most comfortably
done if you have a little additional room, maybe another 1.5'-2' on each
side. Now we're up to 13'-14'.
I would thus claim that each hands-four needs about 8'x14', or 112
sqft. 28 sqft per person. Having written the above, I look back at the
other posts and am pleased to see that my number comes out pretty close
to the others. Depending on the shape of the space, there may be some
floor area that is not useful, since each set wants its 13'-14' width.
David Harding
On 8/1/2016 8:01 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
> Friends,
>
> I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known
> contra dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
>
> I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical
> requirement for a line of twenty couples?
>
> Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using
> "Family Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
>
> Thanls,
> Rich
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Woodie got it right. Talk with the B&G. Most everyone would much
prefer the dances to be fun for everyone, rather than more complicated
and difficult dances that fail with all the beginners. Just be sure
you have a good band who can keep a strong beat and great tunes.
For the grand march have the B&G lead the march (talk with them about
how this will work beforehand). Then have them end up in front and
middle where all can applaud them. A Virginia reel is good for
beginners, as is the Galopede. I've found that with good music and an
enthusiastic crowd, most good dancers enjoy the Galopede, or Virginia
reel as much as the most modern contras, as they are dancing with (at
lest some) friends, and they can always add their own flourishes.
And when all are lined up after the grand march, immediately form
lines from where they stand. Don't let them sit down. Keep them
dancing.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 5:53 PM, Rich Sbardella via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hello Woody,
>
> I have not assumed that only 20 couples would dance, I was just using that
> as a way to determine how much dance floor is needed. I would love three or
> four lines of 20 couples. I have not yet visited the hall.
>
> I have spoken at length with the B&G. They are indeed contra dancers. I
> let them know that they could have a great time with few or no contras, but
> they are insisting. I will include a longways and a circle mixer, if space
> allows, before I go to contras. I will have some easy, gender free contras
> to start, and a few very easy duple improper contras. It is their day, and
> they are calling the shots, but perhaps as the event develops, I can
> persuade them to be flexible. I have many ONS dances to draw from.
>
> Thanks for the advice, it will be useful.
>
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 5:30 PM, Woody Lane via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> Are the bride and groom actual contra dancers?
>>
>> I would talk with them first. Get a feel for their comfort about contras,
>> and also dancing in general. Ask them if they waltz. If you hear a few
>> moments of silence -- that says a lot about their dancing. Assure them that
>> everyone will have a great time.
>>
>> With a 145 attendees, why assume that there will only be 40 dancers (20
>> couples)? Maybe there will be only 40 if all the dances you call are modern
>> contras. But if you, as the MC for that part of the event, can get all the
>> attendees on the dance floor (or at least 100+), all happy and celebrating
>> -- would that be an option? Would that be what the couple really wants but
>> is either narrow in their perspective or doesn't know how to articulate it?
>>
>> This weekend, I called a wedding for some folks who wanted contras. That's
>> what they advertised. Well, yes, except that the bride and groom had really
>> never waltzed or had done real contras.
>>
>> Nonetheless, contras was what they had in their heads. There were 80
>> attendees. The dance area was a relatively narrow rectangle of grass. But we
>> began with a Grand March -- which everyone (and I mean everyone) could do,
>> with a wind-up spiral. Even the non-dancers could walk through it and laugh.
>> Then a very phrase-driven circle mixer, then a Virginia Reel style of dance.
>> Nearly everyone was on the dance floor, having a great time. And they stayed
>> on the floor, ignoring the free drinks. Yes, it was occasionally a bit
>> crowded, but nobody cared. Actually, that's what I think the wedding couple
>> really wanted -- to have lots of fun on their special day and share the
>> celebration. They were absolutely delighted that so many of their non-dancer
>> friends were clearly having a great time on the dance floor. (and then we
>> did more dances after a dessert break, ending with a simple fun mixer.) And
>> at the end of the evening, they gave me an extra tip on top of my payment.
>>
>> Just some thoughts. Good luck.
>>
>> Woody
>>
>> --
>> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>> Woody Lane
>> Caller, Percussive Dancer
>> Roseburg, Oregon
>> http://www.woodylanecaller.com
>> home: 541-440-1926 cell: 541-556-0054
>> <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
>>
>> On 8/1/2016 6:01 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
>>>
>>> Friends,
>>>
>>> I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known
>>> contra dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
>>>
>>> I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical
>>> requirement for a line of twenty couples?
>>>
>>> Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using
>>> "Family Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
>>>
>>> Thanls,
>>> Rich
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
Woody: Great observations. Glad your experience was so positive.
Rich: So sorry to hear that they are "insistent" on MUC. Many of us have been in this situation and we know from experience that the Bride and Groom are often too busy with photos, greeting families and friends that they often don't even get to the dance floor. I'm sure you'll arrive ready for anything and everything.
Don't forget "Ellen's Green Jig". I've used it a couple of times in such situations.
Donna
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Woody Lane <woody(a)woodylane.com>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net>
Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 5:53 pm
Subject: Re: [Callers] Floor Space Requirement
Hello Woody,
I have not assumed that only 20 couples would dance, I was just using that as a way to determine how much dance floor is needed. I would love three or four lines of 20 couples. I have not yet visited the hall.
I have spoken at length with the B&G. They are indeed contra dancers. I let them know that they could have a great time with few or no contras, but they are insisting. I will include a longways and a circle mixer, if space allows, before I go to contras. I will have some easy, gender free contras to start, and a few very easy duple improper contras. It is their day, and they are calling the shots, but perhaps as the event develops, I can persuade them to be flexible. I have many ONS dances to draw from.
Thanks for the advice, it will be useful.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
Hi Rich,
Are the bride and groom actual contra dancers?
I would talk with them first. Get a feel for their comfort about
contras, and also dancing in general. Ask them if they waltz. If you
hear a few moments of silence -- that says a lot about their dancing.
Assure them that everyone will have a great time.
With a 145 attendees, why assume that there will only be 40 dancers (20
couples)? Maybe there will be only 40 if all the dances you call are
modern contras. But if you, as the MC for that part of the event, can
get all the attendees on the dance floor (or at least 100+), all happy
and celebrating -- would that be an option? Would that be what the
couple really wants but is either narrow in their perspective or doesn't
know how to articulate it?
This weekend, I called a wedding for some folks who wanted contras.
That's what they advertised. Well, yes, except that the bride and groom
had really never waltzed or had done real contras.
Nonetheless, contras was what they had in their heads. There were 80
attendees. The dance area was a relatively narrow rectangle of grass.
But we began with a Grand March -- which everyone (and I mean everyone)
could do, with a wind-up spiral. Even the non-dancers could walk through
it and laugh. Then a very phrase-driven circle mixer, then a Virginia
Reel style of dance. Nearly everyone was on the dance floor, having a
great time. And they stayed on the floor, ignoring the free drinks. Yes,
it was occasionally a bit crowded, but nobody cared. Actually, that's
what I think the wedding couple really wanted -- to have lots of fun on
their special day and share the celebration. They were absolutely
delighted that so many of their non-dancer friends were clearly having a
great time on the dance floor. (and then we did more dances after a
dessert break, ending with a simple fun mixer.) And at the end of the
evening, they gave me an extra tip on top of my payment.
Just some thoughts. Good luck.
Woody
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Woody Lane
Caller, Percussive Dancer
Roseburg, Oregon
http://www.woodylanecaller.com
home: 541-440-1926 cell: 541-556-0054
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
On 8/1/2016 6:01 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers wrote:
> Friends,
>
> I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known
> contra dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
>
> I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical
> requirement for a line of twenty couples?
>
> Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using
> "Family Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
>
> Thanls,
> Rich
Hi, Rich!
A couple of thoughts that I have:
I would make sure that I asked about the wedding couple’s definition of “modern contra”. Their actual definition might help make your programming easier; of course, the opposite is also true! Does this mean no squares, no circle mixers, no sicilian circles?
I would also ask them about what their goals are for their dance. If it is mostly to please the contra dancers, that is important to know; but if it is to get the non-contra dancing families and friends dancing together, then you have a way in to get permission to do some programming with those desires in mind.
Do they want gender role-free terminology used? Asking this may encourage them to think about their attendees.
As for “modern contras” that are a bit easier, I do have a few listed on my webpage. Do Si Three is a great way to get non-dancers used to dancing, as well as progressing. And since it was written not so very long ago, I assume it is defined as a “modern contra” ;-)
After the concept of progressing, the most challenging part of doing “modern contras” is how to end a swing. So dances in which this is a bit easier to figure out might be helpful to you. An example is the dance below; however, you will need room up and down, since the P swing is across. This dance (like most contras), can be done as a sicilian circle; this formation is a great choice, as aefallon suggested in her note to you. There are also a number of Becket dances that might be considered. I have included one below by Orace Johnson.
As for floor space: I saved some advice from John Sweeney and Martha Wild, when this question came up a while back. Here is what they each said:
We usually plan 1.5 square yards / person. 35 feet x 16
feet = 62 sq.yds. so 40 people will be able to dance comfortably. 60
people is starting to get tight.
John Sweeney
And from Martha (this is a digest of what she shared):
20 feet across for two contra lines
Length of the hall, divided by 4 determines the number of couples in the line.
I hope you have a great experience! Do let us know how the event goes!
Linda
Que Guapo by Linda Leslie
Contra/Improper/Beginner
A1 -----------
Circle left
Circle right
A2 -----------
Right hand star
Left hand star
B1 -----------
Partner do si do
Partner 2 hand Swing (face these neighbors)
B2 -----------
Forward and Back
Twos arch, Ones Duck
Midwest Folklore
by Orace Johnson
Contra/Becket-CW/Easy
A1 -----------
Circle left three-quarters
Neighbor do si do
A2 -----------
Neighbor Balance and Swing
B1 -----------
Circle left three-quarters
Partner Do si do
B2 -----------
Partner Balance and Swing
(look left and slide left to a new couple)
On Aug 1, 2016, at 9:01 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Friends,
>
> I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known contra dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
>
> I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical requirement for a line of twenty couples?
>
> Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using "Family Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
>
> Thanls,
> Rich
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Hi, Rich. I can't answer your question about space. But I do have one suggestion about dancers. How about doing a simple Sicilian Circle dance to introduce the concept of modern contra dance progression? Good luck!
Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
------ Original message------From: Rich Sbardella via Callers Date: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 9:02 AMTo: Caller's discussion list;Cc: Subject:[Callers] Floor Space Requirement
Friends,
I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known contra dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical requirement for a line of twenty couples?
Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using "Family Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
Thanls,Rich
Friends,
I have been hire to call a wedding with 145 attendees and 15 known contra
dancers. The bride and groom are insisting on modern contras.
I have never thought about floor space, what is the typical requirement for
a line of twenty couples?
Any very easy duple improper dances to recommend? I plan on using "Family
Contra" and "Jefferson and Lincoln".
Thanls,
Rich
