18 Mar
2021
18 Mar
'21
1:16 a.m.
Hi all,
We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies
done.
One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do
not want to appear in any photos or videos.
Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
-designate one line as always non-photo/video
-buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up
with that you're willing to share?
Thanks in advance,
*Karey Bacon*
she/her/hers
*267-437-5641*
18 Mar
18 Mar
2:18 a.m.
BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted to put dance images
in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use pictures. It
was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our
dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We
eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in, and let
people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography without draconian
measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just have a
preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled violent
abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee their safety and
they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have signage at the
desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people will still miss or forget
the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and announcements have to be made,
which may on any given night be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges. That
might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will see a reminder
in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who livestream a minute
of your dance.
-- Alan
________________________________
From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
Hi all,
We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies done.
One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do not want to
appear in any photos or videos.
Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
-designate one line as always non-photo/video
-buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up with that
you're willing to share?
Thanks in advance,
Karey Bacon
she/her/hers
267-437-5641
2:23 a.m.
Downtown Amherst Contra has its photo policy included in its safety /
values policy:
http://amherstcontra.org/Amherst_Contradance/Safety_Policy.html
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 10:21 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years
ago when we wanted to
put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we
couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the Board
was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random dancers
were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually concluded
that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people know
beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in,
and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography
without draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all
the cellphones.
The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just
have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who
have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have
signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges.
That
might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will
see a reminder *in the picture*, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
-- Alan
------------------------------
*From:* Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
*To:* organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
*Subject:* [Organizers] photography
policy?
Hi all,
We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies
done.
One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do
not want to appear in any photos or videos.
Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
-designate one line as always non-photo/video
-buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up
with that you're willing to share?
Thanks in advance,
*Karey Bacon*
she/her/hers
*267-437-5641*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
2:28 a.m.
BIDA has:
"Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
Alan describes.
If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted to put dance
images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use pictures.
It was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of
our dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We
eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in, and let
people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
>
> That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
>
> It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography without
draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
>
> The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just have a
preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled violent
abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee their safety and
they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
>
> Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have signage at
the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people will still miss or
forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and announcements have to be
made, which may on any given night be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
>
> I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will see a
reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who livestream a
minute of your dance.
>
> -- Alan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
>
> Hi all,
> We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies done.
>
> One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do not want
to appear in any photos or videos.
>
> Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
>
> Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up with
that you're willing to share?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Karey Bacon
> she/her/hers
> 267-437-5641
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
19 Mar
19 Mar
4:27 p.m.
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our
social contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing
photos or videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making videos or
recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
BIDA has:
"Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
Alan describes.
If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted
to put
dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we
couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the Board
was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random dancers
were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually concluded
that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people know
beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in,
and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography
without
draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all
the cellphones.
The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just
have a
preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who
have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have
signage
at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges.
That
might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will
see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people
who livestream a minute of your dance.
-- Alan
________________________________
From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
Hi all,
We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies
done.
One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers
do not
want to appear in any photos or videos.
Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
-designate one line as always non-photo/video
-buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up
with
that you're willing to share?
Thanks in advance,
Karey Bacon
she/her/hers
267-437-5641
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
5:01 p.m.
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org> wrote:
>
> We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our social
contract.
>
> Photography, Videography, and Recording
> ● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing photos or
videos of minor children.
> ● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making videos or
recordings.
>
> Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> BIDA has:
>>
>> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
>> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
>> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>>
>> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
>> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
>> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
>> Alan describes.
>>
>> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
>> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
>> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
>> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
>> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
>> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
>> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
>> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
>> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted to
put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use
pictures. It was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about this stuff
pictures of our dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for
privacy. We eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd
let people know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in,
and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
>> >
>> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
>> >
>> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography
without draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
>> >
>> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just
have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled
violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee their safety
and they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
>> >
>> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have
signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people will still
miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and announcements have
to be made, which may on any given night be for the benefit of people who aren't
there.
>> >
>> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please"
badges. That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will
see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who
livestream a minute of your dance.
>> >
>> > -- Alan
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
>> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> > Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies
done.
>> >
>> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do
not want to appear in any photos or videos.
>> >
>> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
>> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
>> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
>> >
>> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up
with that you're willing to share?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Karey Bacon
>> > she/her/hers
>> > 267-437-5641
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> --
> Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
6:32 p.m.
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our
social
contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing
photos or
videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained
before making videos
or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> BIDA has:
>
> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>
> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
> Alan describes.
>
> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
wanted to
put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that
we couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the
Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random
dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it
in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
> >
> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >
> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
photography
without draconian measures like searches at the door and
confiscating all the cellphones.
> >
> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who
just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those
who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
> >
> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have
signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
> >
> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please"
badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing
them
will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Subject: [Organizers] photography
policy?
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
policies
done.
> >
> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
dancers
do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
> >
> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
> >
> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come
up with that you're willing to share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Karey Bacon
> > she/her/hers
> > 267-437-5641
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall. 
11:07 p.m.
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in western Massachusetts
and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people, regardless of age, at a
public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered approach, especially if
someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering. Common sense should
prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu
<mailto:jeff@alum.swarthmore.edu>> wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org
<mailto:lisa@cdrochester.org>> wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our social
contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing photos or videos
of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making videos or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
BIDA has:
"Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility <https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility>
We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
Alan describes.
If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted to put dance
images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use pictures.
It was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of
our dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We
eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in, and let
people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography without draconian
measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just have a
preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled violent
abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee their safety and
they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have signage at the
desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people will still miss or forget
the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and announcements have to be made,
which may on any given night be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will see a
reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who livestream a
minute of your dance.
-- Alan
________________________________
From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
Hi all,
We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies done.
One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do not want to
appear in any photos or videos.
Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
-designate one line as always non-photo/video
-buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up with that
you're willing to share?
Thanks in advance,
Karey Bacon
she/her/hers
267-437-5641
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
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<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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20 Mar
20 Mar
1:46 p.m.
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces, and
thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in western
Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people,
regardless of age, at a public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered
approach, especially if someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering.
Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our
social
contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before
publishing photos or
videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained
before making videos
or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> BIDA has:
>
> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>
> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
> Alan describes.
>
> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
wanted to
put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that
we couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the
Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random
dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it
in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
> >
> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >
> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
photography
without draconian measures like searches at the door and
confiscating all the cellphones.
> >
> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who
just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those
who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
> >
> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and
have
signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
> >
> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please"
badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing
them
will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Subject: [Organizers] photography
policy?
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
policies
done.
> >
> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
dancers
do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
> >
> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
> >
> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've
come
up with that you're willing to share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Karey Bacon
> > she/her/hers
> > 267-437-5641
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
1:59 p.m.
Without research, I would expect a publicly available hall at an event
open to the public would qualify as a public gathering.
Walker Sloan
sloan(a)medevelop.com
On 3/20/21 9:46, Ron Blechner via Organizers wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in
non-public spaces,
and thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in
western Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people,
regardless of age, at a public gathering is permissible without
permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered
approach, especially if someone has raised it within your dance
community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public
gathering. Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via
Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an
adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman
<jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu <mailto:jeff@alum.swarthmore.edu>> wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures
of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown
<lisa(a)cdrochester.org <mailto:lisa@cdrochester.org>> wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's
part of
our social contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained
before publishing
photos or videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained
before
making videos or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> BIDA has:
>
> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is
common for
> dancers to take pictures and post them on
social media." --
>https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
<https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility>
>
> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially
make the
> dance better for people who don't want to
be photographed
or have
> their pictures shared, but we ended up
running into the
same problems
> Alan describes.
>
> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of
them will
> not appear on social media without them
having the option
to opt out,
> then there are people who can come to your
dance who couldn't
> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen
unless you
> have quite strict enforcement (especially
with newcomers),
you aren't
> successfully making the dance more accessible
and you are
making the
> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like
sharing photos.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via
Organizers
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
> >
> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago
when we
wanted to put dance images in our publicity and
privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use pictures. It
was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about
this stuff pictures of our dances from random dancers were
turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd
let people know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening
we were going to do it in, and let people sit down or leave
the room for that one dance.
> >
> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >
> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really
prevent
photography without draconian measures like searches
at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
> >
> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from
people who just have a preference to people for whom it's a
matter of survival - those who have fled violent abusers or
who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee
their safety and they need to understand that you can do at
most a best-effort attempt.
> >
> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos
okay
and have signage at the desk about not photographing
outside of that line, but people will still miss or forget the
signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and
announcements have to be made, which may on any given night be
for the benefit of people who aren't there.
> >
> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos
please" badges. That might be effective in that people
reviewing images before sharing them will see a reminder in
the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who
livestream a minute of your dance.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> > To:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net><organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> > Subject: [Organizers] photography
policy?
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get
some
policies done.
> >
> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video
policy. Some
dancers do not want to appear in any photos or
videos.
> >
> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
> >
> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything
you've come up with that you're willing to share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Karey Bacon
> > she/her/hers
> > 267-437-5641
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list
--organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> > To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
>
_______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list --organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
2:04 p.m.
I believe that public gatherings are any gatherings that welcome the public whether
they’re paying or not. So aside from publicly-owned facilities, all spaces are
privately-owned. Tanglewood is privately owned… Fenway Park is privately owned, but they
are still public gatherings.
If a dance community decided to form a club with membership which was required for entry
(like a members-only golf course) then those would be private events. Invitation-only
events are not public events like weddings. But our dances, which we advertise in hopes of
having the public come (and in the serious hope that we’ll have some new dancers each
night!) are public events.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
and not a lawyer...
On Mar 20, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Ron Blechner
<contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces, and thus, not
public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in western Massachusetts
and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people, regardless of age, at
a public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered approach, especially if
someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering. Common sense should
prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu
<mailto:jeff@alum.swarthmore.edu>> wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org
<mailto:lisa@cdrochester.org>> wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of our social
contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing photos or videos
of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making videos or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
wrote:
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
BIDA has:
"Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility <https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility>
We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
Alan describes.
If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
Jeff
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we wanted to put dance
images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use pictures.
It was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of
our dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We
eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it in, and let
people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
>
> That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
>
> It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent photography without
draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
>
> The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who just have a
preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled violent
abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot guarantee their safety and
they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
>
> Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and have signage at
the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people will still miss or
forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and announcements have to be
made, which may on any given night be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
>
> I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please" badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing them will see a
reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for people who livestream a
minute of your dance.
>
> -- Alan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
>
> Hi all,
> We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some policies done.
>
> One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some dancers do not want
to appear in any photos or videos.
>
> Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
>
> Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've come up with
that you're willing to share?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Karey Bacon
> she/her/hers
> 267-437-5641
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
2:21 p.m.
Posting vs Tagging
Sometimes, being tagged in the photos is what bothers people not the
posting of the photos. But even if your dance organization doesn't tag
people in the photos, other people can still tag people. Or as someone else
previously mentioned, other dance attendees, who are not under your
control, can post photos and tag.
Lisa
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 10:04 AM Stephen Moore <stevmoor(a)mac.com> wrote:
I believe that public gatherings are any gatherings
that welcome the
public whether they’re paying or not. So aside from publicly-owned
facilities, all spaces are privately-owned. Tanglewood is privately owned…
Fenway Park is privately owned, but they are still public gatherings.
If a dance community decided to form a club with membership which was
required for entry (like a members-only golf course) then those would be
private events. Invitation-only events are not public events like weddings.
But our dances, which we advertise in hopes of having the public come (and
in the serious hope that we’ll have some new dancers each night!) are
public events.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
and not a lawyer...
On Mar 20, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces, and
thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in western
Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people,
regardless of age, at a public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered
approach, especially if someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering.
Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org>
wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of
our social
contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before
publishing photos or
videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained
before making videos
or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> BIDA has:
>
> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common for
> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>
> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
> Alan describes.
>
> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
wanted to
put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that
we couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the
Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random
dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it
in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
> >
> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >
> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
photography
without draconian measures like searches at the door and
confiscating all the cellphones.
> >
> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who
just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those
who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
> >
> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and
have
signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
> >
> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos please"
badges.
That might be effective in that people reviewing images before sharing
them
will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> > Subject: [Organizers] photography
policy?
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
policies
done.
> >
> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
dancers
do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
> >
> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
> >
> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've
come
up with that you're willing to share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Karey Bacon
> > she/her/hers
> > 267-437-5641
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
_______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
3:41 p.m.
I have to ask. I apologize if somebody already has asked this. How does
a person in 2021 avoid being photographed. Drive a car? Traffic
cameras. Walk down the street? Security cameras. Walk past your
neighbors house? Security camera. Walk in a store, a bank? Security
cameras. We know we are being photographed every where we go. We have
no control over how or when our photo will be used. Everybody (almost)
has a phone with a camera.
Somebody mentioned people in the witness protection program. It made me
think, how do these people avoid being photographed?
Back to dance halls. Can a person who has to accept the reality of
security cameras realistically attend a public gathering and require the
organizers to prohibit photography? I wonder.
On 3/20/2021 10:21 AM, Lisa Brown via Organizers wrote:
Posting vs Tagging
Sometimes, being tagged in the photos is what bothers people not the
posting of the photos. But even if your dance organization doesn't tag
people in the photos, other people can still tag people. Or as someone
else previously mentioned, other dance attendees, who are not under
your control, can post photos and tag.
Lisa
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 10:04 AM Stephen Moore <stevmoor(a)mac.com
<mailto:stevmoor@mac.com>> wrote:
I believe that public gatherings are any gatherings that welcome
the public whether they’re paying or not. So aside from
publicly-owned facilities, all spaces are privately-owned.
Tanglewood is privately owned… Fenway Park is privately owned, but
they are still public gatherings.
If a dance community decided to form a club with membership which
was required for entry (like a members-only golf course) then
those would be private events. Invitation-only events are not
public events like weddings. But our dances, which we advertise in
hopes of having the public come (and in the serious hope that
we’ll have some new dancers each night!) are public events.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
and not a lawyer...
On Mar 20, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Ron Blechner
<contraron(a)gmail.com
<mailto:contraron@gmail.com>> wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public
spaces, and thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly
newspaper/journal in western Massachusetts and so the laws
around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of
people, regardless of age, at a public gathering is
permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more
considered approach, especially if someone has raised it
within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public
gathering. Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown
via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come
with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman
<jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu <mailto:jeff@alum.swarthmore.edu>>
wrote:
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking
pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance
without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown
<lisa(a)cdrochester.org <mailto:lisa@cdrochester.org>> wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
We have a photography policy for minors and musicians.
It's part
of our social contract.
Photography, Videography, and Recording
● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained
before
publishing photos or videos of minor children.
● Permission of the performers should be obtained
before making videos or recordings.
Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via
Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> BIDA has:
>
> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and
it
is common for
> dancers to take pictures and post them on
social
media." --
>https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
<https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility>
>
> We talked a lot about ways in which we could
potentially make the
> dance better for people who don't want to
be
photographed or have
> their pictures shared, but we ended up
running into
the same problems
> Alan describes.
>
> If you have a place where people can trust that
photos of them
will
> not appear on social media without them
having the
option to opt out,
> then there are people who can come to your
dance who
couldn't
> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make
some
effort in this
> direction but it still happens, which is what
will
happen unless you
> have quite strict enforcement (especially
with
newcomers), you aren't
> successfully making the dance more accessible
and you
are making the
> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like
sharing photos.
>
> Jeff
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via
Organizers
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
> >
> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years
ago when
we wanted to put dance images in our publicity
and privacy concerns meant that we couldn't just use
pictures. It was very frustrating that while the Board
was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances
from random dancers were turning up on FB with no
concern for privacy. We eventually concluded that if we
were going to take publicity photos we'd let people know
beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were
going to do it in, and let people sit down or leave the
room for that one dance.
> >
> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >
> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really
prevent
photography without draconian measures like
searches at the door and confiscating all the cellphones.
> >
> > The people who don't want to be photographed range
from
people who just have a preference to people for
whom it's a matter of survival - those who have fled
violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection.
You cannot guarantee their safety and they need to
understand that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
> >
> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as
photos
okay and have signage at the desk about not
photographing outside of that line, but people will
still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to
keep an eye on it and announcements have to be made,
which may on any given night be for the benefit of
people who aren't there.
> >
> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos
please" badges. That might be effective in that people
reviewing images before sharing them will see a reminder
in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
> >
> > -- Alan
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> > To:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net><organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>>
> > Subject: [Organizers] photography
policy?
> >
> > Hi all,
> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try
to get
some policies done.
> >
> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video
policy.
Some dancers do not want to appear in any
photos or videos.
> >
> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical
drawbacks:
> > -designate one line as always
non-photo/video
> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be
on camera
> >
> > Is this something your dance has grappled with?
Anything
you've come up with that you're willing to share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Karey Bacon
> > she/her/hers
> > 267-437-5641
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list
--organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> > To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
>
_______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list
--organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net>
--
Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list --organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To unsubscribe send an email
toorganizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:organizers-leave@lists.sharedweight.net> 
4:14 p.m.
I think the reason we care about this issue is that while we are a public
gathering, we are also a community. We know our community, and many
communities in general, include people who have strong preferences for not
being recorded, regardless of end use of the photo/video, (and also people
under 18), and we want to explore how we can preserve their ability to
fully/joyfully participate in the community, while allowing others to take
photos and video for promotional and social purposes.
Compromises - some people who often take photos at Mt Airy have gotten
really good at artistic filters that still capture the energy and beauty of
the event while obscuring people's faces. Or one line of the hall can be
designated 'off-camera'.
An unresolved tension is that performers and organizers benefit from the
ability to take video of the whole hall. Capturing the full energy and
scale of the event allows organizers to promote the dance and performers to
promote themselves to other dances. Maybe the only solution is to blur out
the people in a video who wish to be off camera. I hope there are some ways
to do this that are accessible for people who aren't tech-savvy.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 11:43 AM Alex Shevits via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I have to ask. I apologize if somebody already has
asked this. How does a
person in 2021 avoid being photographed. Drive a car? Traffic cameras.
Walk down the street? Security cameras. Walk past your neighbors house?
Security camera. Walk in a store, a bank? Security cameras. We know we
are being photographed every where we go. We have no control over how or
when our photo will be used. Everybody (almost) has a phone with a
camera.
Somebody mentioned people in the witness protection program. It made me
think, how do these people avoid being photographed?
Back to dance halls. Can a person who has to accept the reality of
security cameras realistically attend a public gathering and require the
organizers to prohibit photography? I wonder.
On 3/20/2021 10:21 AM, Lisa Brown via Organizers wrote:
Posting vs Tagging
Sometimes, being tagged in the photos is what bothers people not the
posting of the photos. But even if your dance organization doesn't tag
people in the photos, other people can still tag people. Or as someone else
previously mentioned, other dance attendees, who are not under your
control, can post photos and tag.
Lisa
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 10:04 AM Stephen Moore <stevmoor(a)mac.com> wrote:
I believe that public gatherings are any
gatherings that welcome the
public whether they’re paying or not. So aside from publicly-owned
facilities, all spaces are privately-owned. Tanglewood is privately owned…
Fenway Park is privately owned, but they are still public gatherings.
If a dance community decided to form a club with membership which was
required for entry (like a members-only golf course) then those would be
private events. Invitation-only events are not public events like weddings.
But our dances, which we advertise in hopes of having the public come (and
in the serious hope that we’ll have some new dancers each night!) are
public events.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
and not a lawyer...
On Mar 20, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces, and
thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in
western Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people,
regardless of age, at a public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered
approach, especially if someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering.
Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
Hi Lisa,
How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
responsible adult?
Jeff
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org>
wrote:
>
> We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of
our social contract.
>
> Photography, Videography, and Recording
> ● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before
publishing photos or videos of minor children.
> ● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making
videos or recordings.
>
> Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> BIDA has:
>>
>> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common
for
>> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
>> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>>
>> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
>> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
>> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same problems
>> Alan describes.
>>
>> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
>> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt out,
>> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
>> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
>> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
>> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you aren't
>> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
>> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
>> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
wanted to put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that
we couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the
Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random
dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it
in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
>> >
>> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
>> >
>> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
photography without draconian measures like searches at the door and
confiscating all the cellphones.
>> >
>> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people who
just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those
who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You
cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do
at most a best-effort attempt.
>> >
>> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and
have signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
>> >
>> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos
please"
badges. That might be effective in that people reviewing images before
sharing them will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be
useful for people who livestream a minute of your dance.
>> >
>> > -- Alan
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
>> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>> > Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
policies done.
>> >
>> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
dancers do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
>> >
>> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
>> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
>> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
>> >
>> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've
come up with that you're willing to share?
>> >
>> > Thanks in advance,
>> >
>> > Karey Bacon
>> > she/her/hers
>> > 267-437-5641
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> --
> Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
5:37 p.m.
An aspect I haven't seen mentioned here is legislations like the General
Data Protection Regulation of the EU, which allows all EU citizens the
right to demand to know what information, including images, any
organisation has of them, requires informed consent before taking the
photos, and allows the "right to be forgotten", meaning they can demand
that any photos of them are removed from databases, websites, etc. It's
something that affects the whole world, and in my day job we extend the
rights provided by GDPR to all people we work with, regardless of their
nationality.
In Toronto, we have had a photo policy for a number of years. I wrote it
thinking about the community's comfort and safety (no flash is one of the
rules for example), and the policy is posted at the entrance to all the
dances. Whenever I am shooting for Toronto Contra Dance, I check with the
band and caller in advance to make sure they are comfortable with me
shooting, and being on stage, and also with the photos being posted. I
also do them the courtesy of offering them access to the photos afterwards
for their own use/promotion. Some have asked to approve photos before they
are posted, which I always allow too.
The other thing I think is important in photo policies, aside from
community comfort and the safety of dancers/performers, is the protection
of children, and I never shoot children without their parents' permission.
Just my two cents worth as a comms person, photographer, and dancer :)
Simon
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:17 PM Laura Alexander via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I think the reason we care about this issue is that
while we are a public
gathering, we are also a community. We know our community, and many
communities in general, include people who have strong preferences for not
being recorded, regardless of end use of the photo/video, (and also people
under 18), and we want to explore how we can preserve their ability to
fully/joyfully participate in the community, while allowing others to take
photos and video for promotional and social purposes.
Compromises - some people who often take photos at Mt Airy have gotten
really good at artistic filters that still capture the energy and beauty of
the event while obscuring people's faces. Or one line of the hall can be
designated 'off-camera'.
An unresolved tension is that performers and organizers benefit from the
ability to take video of the whole hall. Capturing the full energy and
scale of the event allows organizers to promote the dance and performers to
promote themselves to other dances. Maybe the only solution is to blur out
the people in a video who wish to be off camera. I hope there are some ways
to do this that are accessible for people who aren't tech-savvy.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 11:43 AM Alex Shevits via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I have to ask. I apologize if somebody already
has asked this. How does
a person in 2021 avoid being photographed. Drive a car? Traffic cameras.
Walk down the street? Security cameras. Walk past your neighbors house?
Security camera. Walk in a store, a bank? Security cameras. We know we
are being photographed every where we go. We have no control over how or
when our photo will be used. Everybody (almost) has a phone with a
camera.
Somebody mentioned people in the witness protection program. It made me
think, how do these people avoid being photographed?
Back to dance halls. Can a person who has to accept the reality of
security cameras realistically attend a public gathering and require the
organizers to prohibit photography? I wonder.
On 3/20/2021 10:21 AM, Lisa Brown via Organizers wrote:
Posting vs Tagging
Sometimes, being tagged in the photos is what bothers people not the
posting of the photos. But even if your dance organization doesn't tag
people in the photos, other people can still tag people. Or as someone else
previously mentioned, other dance attendees, who are not under your
control, can post photos and tag.
Lisa
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 10:04 AM Stephen Moore <stevmoor(a)mac.com> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
I believe that public gatherings are any
gatherings that welcome the
public whether they’re paying or not. So aside from publicly-owned
facilities, all spaces are privately-owned. Tanglewood is privately owned…
Fenway Park is privately owned, but they are still public gatherings.
If a dance community decided to form a club with membership which was
required for entry (like a members-only golf course) then those would be
private events. Invitation-only events are not public events like weddings.
But our dances, which we advertise in hopes of having the public come (and
in the serious hope that we’ll have some new dancers each night!) are
public events.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
and not a lawyer...
On Mar 20, 2021, at 9:46 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote:
It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces,
and thus, not public gatherings. No?
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Hello everyone,
Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in
western Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people,
regardless of age, at a public gathering is permissible without permission.
But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered
approach, especially if someone has raised it within your dance community.
And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering.
Common sense should prevail too.
Stephen Moore
Lenox Contra Dance
On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Jeff,
Also from our social contract:
Children
● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
Lisa
On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
> Hi Lisa,
>
> How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
> whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
>
> Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
> responsible adult?
>
> Jeff
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of
> our social contract.
> >
> > Photography, Videography, and Recording
> > ● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before
> publishing photos or videos of minor children.
> > ● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making
> videos or recordings.
> >
> > Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> BIDA has:
> >>
> >> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is common
> for
> >> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
> >> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
> >>
> >> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
> >> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or have
> >> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same
> problems
> >> Alan describes.
> >>
> >> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
> >> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt
> out,
> >> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
> >> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
> >> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless you
> >> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you
> aren't
> >> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making the
> >> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
> >>
> >> Jeff
> >>
> >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
> >> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
> wanted to put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that
> we couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the
> Board was arguing about this stuff pictures of our dances from random
> dancers were turning up on FB with no concern for privacy. We eventually
> concluded that if we were going to take publicity photos we'd let people
> know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were going to do it
> in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
> >> >
> >> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
> >> >
> >> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
> photography without draconian measures like searches at the door and
> confiscating all the cellphones.
> >> >
> >> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from people
> who just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival -
> those who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness
> protection. You cannot guarantee their safety and they need to understand
> that you can do at most a best-effort attempt.
> >> >
> >> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos okay and
> have signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but
> people will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an
> eye on it and announcements have to be made, which may on any given night
> be for the benefit of people who aren't there.
> >> >
> >> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos
please"
> badges. That might be effective in that people reviewing images before
> sharing them will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be
> useful for people who livestream a minute of your dance.
> >> >
> >> > -- Alan
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________
> >> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
> >> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> >> > Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
> >> >
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
> policies done.
> >> >
> >> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
> dancers do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
> >> >
> >> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
> >> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
> >> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
> >> >
> >> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything you've
> come up with that you're willing to share?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks in advance,
> >> >
> >> > Karey Bacon
> >> > she/her/hers
> >> > 267-437-5641
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
> organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
>
--
*Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.*
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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Stephen Moore
P.O. Box 38
Monterey, MA 01245
413-528-4007
2:58 p.m.
Aside from whether "public invited" counts in privately owned space,
lots, maybe most, dances are in public spaces like schools, town
halls, even national parks (Glen Echo)
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 9:48 AM Ron Blechner via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> It's my understanding that most dances are held in non-public spaces, and thus,
not public gatherings. No?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021, 7:10 PM Stephen Moore via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> Gads, worrying over dancing issues seems so long ago.
>>
>> Re: photographs. I edit a small town monthly newspaper/journal in western
Massachusetts and so the laws around photography are pertinent.
>>
>> It’s pretty simple as far as what is legal- Photography of people, regardless of
age, at a public gathering is permissible without permission.
>>
>> But as an ongoing event, you might wish to have a more considered approach,
especially if someone has raised it within your dance community.
>>
>> And by example, a school classroom setting is not a public gathering. Common
sense should prevail too.
>>
>> Stephen Moore
>> Lenox Contra Dance
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2021, at 2:32 PM, Lisa Brown via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> Also from our social contract:
>>
>> Children
>> ● Children are welcome; however, those under 18 must come with an adult.
>>
>> Lisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 1:01 PM Jeff Kaufman <jeff(a)alum.swarthmore.edu>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Lisa,
>>>
>>> How do you handle situations where someone is taking pictures of the
>>> whole crowd if you have minors dancing?
>>>
>>> Do you not allow people under 18 to attend your dance without a
>>> responsible adult?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 12:27 PM Lisa Brown <lisa(a)cdrochester.org>
wrote:
>>> >
>>> > We have a photography policy for minors and musicians. It's part of
our social contract.
>>> >
>>> > Photography, Videography, and Recording
>>> > ● Permission of the responsible adult must be obtained before publishing
photos or videos of minor children.
>>> > ● Permission of the performers should be obtained before making videos
or recordings.
>>> >
>>> > Lisa - Country Dancers of Rochester
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:28 PM Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> BIDA has:
>>> >>
>>> >> "Photography: We don't have a photography policy, and it is
common for
>>> >> dancers to take pictures and post them on social media." --
>>> >> https://www.bidadance.org/accessibility
>>> >>
>>> >> We talked a lot about ways in which we could potentially make the
>>> >> dance better for people who don't want to be photographed or
have
>>> >> their pictures shared, but we ended up running into the same
problems
>>> >> Alan describes.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you have a place where people can trust that photos of them will
>>> >> not appear on social media without them having the option to opt
out,
>>> >> then there are people who can come to your dance who couldn't
>>> >> otherwise. On the other hand, if you make some effort in this
>>> >> direction but it still happens, which is what will happen unless
you
>>> >> have quite strict enforcement (especially with newcomers), you
aren't
>>> >> successfully making the dance more accessible and you are making
the
>>> >> dance less enjoyable for dancers who like sharing photos.
>>> >>
>>> >> Jeff
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Mar 17, 2021 at 10:19 PM Winston, Alan P. via Organizers
>>> >> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > BACDS started trying to address this 10 or so years ago when we
wanted to put dance images in our publicity and privacy concerns meant that we
couldn't just use pictures. It was very frustrating that while the Board was arguing
about this stuff pictures of our dances from random dancers were turning up on FB with no
concern for privacy. We eventually concluded that if we were going to take publicity
photos we'd let people know beforehand, announce what dance in the evening we were
going to do it in, and let people sit down or leave the room for that one dance.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > That's okay when you're in charge of the photographer.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > It turns out to be effectively impossible to really prevent
photography without draconian measures like searches at the door and confiscating all the
cellphones.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > The people who don't want to be photographed range from
people who just have a preference to people for whom it's a matter of survival - those
who have fled violent abusers or who are, say, in witness protection. You cannot
guarantee their safety and they need to understand that you can do at most a best-effort
attempt.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Given that, it's useful to designate one line as photos
okay and have signage at the desk about not photographing outside of that line, but people
will still miss or forget the signage, so organizers have to keep an eye on it and
announcements have to be made, which may on any given night be for the benefit of people
who aren't there.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I don't think we've tried giving people "no photos
please" badges. That might be effective in that people reviewing images before
sharing them will see a reminder in the picture, but it's not likely to be useful for
people who livestream a minute of your dance.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > -- Alan
>>> >> >
>>> >> > ________________________________
>>> >> > From: Karey Bacon via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>>> >> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 6:16 PM
>>> >> > To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
>>> >> > Subject: [Organizers] photography policy?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Hi all,
>>> >> > We in Philadelphia are using our Covid time to try to get some
policies done.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > One thing that has come up is a photography/video policy. Some
dancers do not want to appear in any photos or videos.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Some ideas we tossed about that have practical drawbacks:
>>> >> > -designate one line as always non-photo/video
>>> >> > -buttons or badges for those who do not want to be on camera
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Is this something your dance has grappled with? Anything
you've come up with that you're willing to share?
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks in advance,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Karey Bacon
>>> >> > she/her/hers
>>> >> > 267-437-5641
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> >> > To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Seneca Falls. Selma. Stonewall.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>> Stephen Moore
>> P.O. Box 38
>> Monterey, MA 01245
>> 413-528-4007
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
8:58 p.m.
I have one anecdote to share that may be instructive. I was teaching a photography course
at a dance week titled, “How to Take Dance Photos That Don’t Suck.” It was one woman’s bad
luck to also be at the dance week, as she was adamantly and vociferously opposed to being
photographed, under any circumstance. She was profoundly protective of her privacy, and
felt violated that all these people with cameras were lurking about. This became a great
learning opportunity in my class to explore issues of permission, implied and explicit,
and how to be conscientious and ethical when you photograph a public event.
At a dance week, it’s a manageable situation. You get to know everyone in the camp. We all
knew who not to photograph, and to delete photos that she was inadvertently in. I can’t
say she was completely satisfied, but we did what we could. The porous, public events are
more challenging. Back when I was doing the Contradance Calendar I would generally connect
with the organizer before showing up at a dance. If there were children in a dance line, I
always found a parent to get an OK before I shot. I tracked down anyone who was going to
be prominently shown in the calendar to get their permission and their address, so I could
send them one. But my situation is unique. I was often invited to photograph at dance
events. I’m not casually shooting the way most people are. I remember being startled in
the early aughts, at a dance in New Hampshire, and seeing so many people with high end
DSLRs taking photos. This was a photographic subject I had had to myself for decades. No
longer.
I feel my survey of the scene is complete, and I don’t shoot much at dances anymore. I’ll
be interested to see where the collective consensus ends up on this subject.
Doug Plummer
11:18 p.m.
Re: The press
We had a reporter from the Boston Globe at the Jamaica Plain Gender Free
Contra. We asked dancers who didn't want to be photographed to tell us, and
we pointed them out to the reporter. She took it from there. She only had a
cellphone camera and the hall isn't conductive to photography, so I think
in the end she got photos that someone else had taken.
Re; Photos of children
We need to be careful about taking and posting photos of minors. We have a
family that comes to LCFD dance weekends. The parent in the past has asked
that no photos of the children be posted publicly. I think that had to do
with the fact that the children were still fosters, as the adoptions
weren't finalized. When I worked in child welfare in CA, pre-social media,
there was a policy that foster children's photos not be published. I'm not
sure what the current child protection policies about making photos of
foster children public. They probably vary by state.
Good rule of thumb is to have parent/guardian permission for anything
posted by the group or used for promodtion. I would suggest adding in the
description "Photo used with parent/guardian's permission". It's good
practice for your own personal social media also.
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:01 PM Doug Plummer via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I have one anecdote to share that may be instructive.
I was teaching a
photography course at a dance week titled, “How to Take Dance Photos That
Don’t Suck.” It was one woman’s bad luck to also be at the dance week, as
she was adamantly and vociferously opposed to being photographed, under any
circumstance. She was profoundly protective of her privacy, and felt
violated that all these people with cameras were lurking about. This became
a great learning opportunity in my class to explore issues of permission,
implied and explicit, and how to be conscientious and ethical when you
photograph a public event.
At a dance week, it’s a manageable situation. You get to know everyone in
the camp. We all knew who not to photograph, and to delete photos that she
was inadvertently in. I can’t say she was completely satisfied, but we did
what we could. The porous, public events are more challenging. Back when I
was doing the Contradance Calendar I would generally connect with the
organizer before showing up at a dance. If there were children in a dance
line, I always found a parent to get an OK before I shot. I tracked down
anyone who was going to be prominently shown in the calendar to get their
permission and their address, so I could send them one. But my situation is
unique. I was often invited to photograph at dance events. I’m not casually
shooting the way most people are. I remember being startled in the early
aughts, at a dance in New Hampshire, and seeing so many people with high
end DSLRs taking photos. This was a photographic subject I had had to
myself for decades. No longer.
I feel my survey of the scene is complete, and I don’t shoot much at
dances anymore. I’ll be interested to see where the collective consensus
ends up on this subject.
Doug Plummer
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
23 Mar
23 Mar
12:05 a.m.
Thank you for all this information, everyone! I have a lot to take back to
our subcommittee.
I hope everyone is doing well.
*Karey Bacon*
she/her/hers
*267-437-5641*
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 7:19 PM Lisa Marie Lunt via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Re: The press
We had a reporter from the Boston Globe at the Jamaica Plain Gender Free
Contra. We asked dancers who didn't want to be photographed to tell us, and
we pointed them out to the reporter. She took it from there. She only had a
cellphone camera and the hall isn't conductive to photography, so I think
in the end she got photos that someone else had taken.
Re; Photos of children
We need to be careful about taking and posting photos of minors. We have a
family that comes to LCFD dance weekends. The parent in the past has asked
that no photos of the children be posted publicly. I think that had to do
with the fact that the children were still fosters, as the adoptions
weren't finalized. When I worked in child welfare in CA, pre-social media,
there was a policy that foster children's photos not be published. I'm not
sure what the current child protection policies about making photos of
foster children public. They probably vary by state.
Good rule of thumb is to have parent/guardian permission for anything
posted by the group or used for promodtion. I would suggest adding in the
description "Photo used with parent/guardian's permission". It's good
practice for your own personal social media also.
Lisa Lunt
Pronouns: She/Her
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 5:01 PM Doug Plummer via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I have one anecdote to share that may be
instructive. I was teaching a
photography course at a dance week titled, “How to Take Dance Photos That
Don’t Suck.” It was one woman’s bad luck to also be at the dance week, as
she was adamantly and vociferously opposed to being photographed, under any
circumstance. She was profoundly protective of her privacy, and felt
violated that all these people with cameras were lurking about. This became
a great learning opportunity in my class to explore issues of permission,
implied and explicit, and how to be conscientious and ethical when you
photograph a public event.
At a dance week, it’s a manageable situation. You get to know everyone in
the camp. We all knew who not to photograph, and to delete photos that she
was inadvertently in. I can’t say she was completely satisfied, but we did
what we could. The porous, public events are more challenging. Back when I
was doing the Contradance Calendar I would generally connect with the
organizer before showing up at a dance. If there were children in a dance
line, I always found a parent to get an OK before I shot. I tracked down
anyone who was going to be prominently shown in the calendar to get their
permission and their address, so I could send them one. But my situation is
unique. I was often invited to photograph at dance events. I’m not casually
shooting the way most people are. I remember being startled in the early
aughts, at a dance in New Hampshire, and seeing so many people with high
end DSLRs taking photos. This was a photographic subject I had had to
myself for decades. No longer.
I feel my survey of the scene is complete, and I don’t shoot much at
dances anymore. I’ll be interested to see where the collective consensus
ends up on this subject.
Doug Plummer
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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18 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
2doug＠dougplummer.com -
Alex Shevits -
Donald Perley -
Jeff Kaufman -
Karey Bacon -
Laura Alexander -
Lisa Brown -
Lisa Marie Lunt -
Ron Blechner -
Simon Chambers -
Stephen Moore -
Walker Sloan -
Winston, Alan P.