6 Jun
2016
6 Jun
'16
1:42 p.m.
Hi all!
Writing in my role as an organizer of the new second Saturday Montpelier
Contra Exchange series: http://www.contraexchange.org/. We are trying to
figure out a band/caller payment amount that works for both us and the
talent.
So — simple question: How much to do pay your musicians and caller? Do you
have a guarantee, and if so, is it per person or for everyone, no matter
the band size? Do you do profit sharing on top of that?
(I will say that the well-established Montpelier dance on first and third
Saturdays, which I also help organize, has a guarantee of $650 to be split
among musicians and caller, with additional payment for sound. We share
additional profit based on attendance, once our expenses are paid for and
some money saved back for dances we need to subsidize.)
Thanks!
Dana
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
graphic design & layout
Montpelier, Vermont
802-505-6639
danadwya(a)gmail.com
6 Jun
6 Jun
2:31 p.m.
You will find all sorts of financial models out there, but which one is best for you
depends on a few factors.
An organization with a large bank account can perhaps run in the red some percentage of
the time. Larry Jennings, when setting up the finances for the Thursday NEFFA Contra
Dance in Concord, MA, estimated that we should lose money about 1/3 of the time. The
practical implication is that we have a higher guarantee than dances that need to be in
the black all the time.
We also allocate a different guarantee per player depending on the number of performers.
(Fewer perfs. => more per person).
We also kick in some time/gas money for those coming from a "distance".
Annoyingly, bur probably fairly, we have two "bonus" bands: The first band pays
out a fraction (depending on the group size) of the excess beyond a certain gate figure.
The second band kicks in at a higher level and essentially pays the performers any excess
(this recognizes that super-attractive performers are likely the cause for a
much-above-average attendance, so they should be rewarded.
Whatever you decide to do, try and be as fair as possible.
Good luck!
9 Jun
9 Jun
9:10 p.m.
As a caller who travels a bit to call, not always traveling with a band,
pay schedules which reduce the caller's payout based on how big the band
the caller is booked to work with are somewhat frustrating. If I go into it
knowing that I'm traveling with a 4 or 5 person band, I know that is going
to affect the pay on some dances. But when I'm traveling on my own and the
pay is a share of a pot for all performers, and I've been booked with the
band with 6 local musicians and that pot is divided 7 ways, it can
be...disheartening (and also hard on the wallet if I'm trying to break even
on the trip).
Our local dance group works on something similar to the NEFFA model that
you mention -- we know that we will lose money on some dances, and budget
for that. We are able to pay $165 minimum for up to a 4 person band and a
caller. We also share any profits from that particular dance with the band
and caller. A smaller dance that I was involved with for a while paid out
shares of the door. (Of 5 shares), one share to the caller, 3 shares to the
band, 1 share to the house (they have since changed that to offer a
guarantee).
Jack
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 2:34 PM Dan Pearl via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
You will find all sorts of financial models out there,
but which one is
best for you depends on a few factors.
An organization with a large bank account can perhaps run in the red some
percentage of the time. Larry Jennings, when setting up the finances for
the Thursday NEFFA Contra Dance in Concord, MA, estimated that we should
lose money about 1/3 of the time. The practical implication is that we
have a higher guarantee than dances that need to be in the black all the
time.
We also allocate a different guarantee per player depending on the number
of performers. (Fewer perfs. => more per person).
We also kick in some time/gas money for those coming from a "distance".
Annoyingly, bur probably fairly, we have two "bonus" bands: The first band
pays out a fraction (depending on the group size) of the excess beyond a
certain gate figure. The second band kicks in at a higher level and
essentially pays the performers any excess (this recognizes that
super-attractive performers are likely the cause for a much-above-average
attendance, so they should be rewarded.
Whatever you decide to do, try and be as fair as possible.
Good luck!
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
18 Jun
18 Jun
1:29 p.m.
We pay a minimum guarantee of $90/each for up to four performers (band plus caller) and
$75/each for more than that, loosing money on that night and dipping into our reserve when
necessary. I tell performers in writing that the default is equal shares but if they wish
another arrangement they must ask in advance and the band must agree. And, some callers do
ask for a higher guarantee. Even when they don’t, when a caller is coming from a distance,
sometimes 3+ hours and the musicians all reside locally I will simply set aside “travel
money” before dividing shares. Nearly all musicians are understanding of the need for
this.
It sounds like you just need to be more proactive about asking for either a specific
amount, a specific share percentage regardless of the number of musicians, or travel
funds. The one share to caller, three shares to band (regardless of size) is not
uncommon.
At our dance, the house takes 20% of the profit AFTER minimums and expenses (rental,
insurance, flyers, etc) are paid. The 80% remaining goes to the performers. Our method was
developed based on Chrissy Fowler’s formula (Belfast, Maine dance) which was in turn based
on Concord, MA (I believe). I PDF of our Dance Cash Worksheet can be found at
http://bit.ly/1UCCIxt MS Word Version is at http://bit.ly/1UGya56
Will
On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Jack Mitchell via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
As a caller who travels a bit to call, not always
traveling with a band, pay schedules which reduce the caller's payout based on how big
the band the caller is booked to work with are somewhat frustrating. If I go into it
knowing that I'm traveling with a 4 or 5 person band, I know that is going to affect
the pay on some dances. But when I'm traveling on my own and the pay is a share of a
pot for all performers, and I've been booked with the band with 6 local musicians and
that pot is divided 7 ways, it can be...disheartening (and also hard on the wallet if
I'm trying to break even on the trip).
Our local dance group works on something similar to the NEFFA model that you mention --
we know that we will lose money on some dances, and budget for that. We are able to pay
$165 minimum for up to a 4 person band and a caller. We also share any profits from that
particular dance with the band and caller. A smaller dance that I was involved with for a
while paid out shares of the door. (Of 5 shares), one share to the caller, 3 shares to the
band, 1 share to the house (they have since changed that to offer a guarantee).
Jack
On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 2:34 PM Dan Pearl via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
You will find all sorts of financial models out there, but which one is best for you
depends on a few factors.
An organization with a large bank account can perhaps run in the red some percentage of
the time. Larry Jennings, when setting up the finances for the Thursday NEFFA Contra
Dance in Concord, MA, estimated that we should lose money about 1/3 of the time. The
practical implication is that we have a higher guarantee than dances that need to be in
the black all the time.
We also allocate a different guarantee per player depending on the number of performers.
(Fewer perfs. => more per person).
We also kick in some time/gas money for those coming from a "distance".
Annoyingly, bur probably fairly, we have two "bonus" bands: The first band pays
out a fraction (depending on the group size) of the excess beyond a certain gate figure.
The second band kicks in at a higher level and essentially pays the performers any excess
(this recognizes that super-attractive performers are likely the cause for a
much-above-average attendance, so they should be rewarded.
Whatever you decide to do, try and be as fair as possible.
Good luck!
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
--
Will Loving
18A Orchard St #1
Northampton, MA 01060-2539
413-253-7223 (desk)
413-221-8626 (iPhone)
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days inactive
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days old
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3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Dan Pearl via Organizers -
Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers
-
Jack Mitchell via Organizers
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William M Loving via Organizers