21 Jul
2016
21 Jul
'16
10:47 p.m.
With the current temps in the US at an alarming high, our dance hall has been running hot,
with their one A/C unit cooling to 75-78 degrees while dancing. We keep it pretty windy,
with lots of fans (quietest ones in the hall are small Lasko units and louder ones in the
back).
That being said, at what point do you cancel the dance because of heat? Dancers are
already complaining and all we can do is keep it windy. Of course, we could cut our
losses if minimum capacity of dancers are not coming because of the heat. In the past
& at another hall, we used to cancel all of August because of heat, but I don't
know how you can make that call because you really don't know how it will feel (or how
many dancers will attend) until you get there.
Deanna Palumbo
Chattahoochee Country Dancers, Atlanta, GA
21 Jul
21 Jul
11:17 p.m.
Hi, Deanna!
I've danced in halls that were in the high 80s at the start of the
evening and into the 90s, and nobody died.
I once called (in South Pasadena) when it was 95 outside at 8:00, not
much cooler inside.
As a caller I tried to make the breaks between dances a little longer,
encourage people to get water, make it clear I wasn't going to start the
walkthrough until everybody who needed water had gotten some, and
probably lost one dance out of the evening to those longer breaks.
Everybody nonetheless kept grabbing partners and lining up immediately. .
If you've got all those fans going you might consider having them blow
over bowls or buckets of ice to get some additional cooling.
Do you have a good way to notify your dancers of cancelations? Do you
have to pay rent if you're canceling at the last minute due to heat?
Out here in California we don't really have any automatic cancelation
rules; in New England I think there's some kinds of automatically
triggered cancelations, like "if such and such road is closed from snow,
we're canceled" or "if it's a snow day we're canceled".) And
our
California heat probably doesn't usually come close to Atlanta's
humidity levels, so I don't know if any of my experience applies.
-- Alan
On 7/21/2016 3:47 PM, Deanna Palumbo via Organizers wrote:
With the current temps in the US at an alarming high, our dance hall
has been running hot, with their one A/C unit cooling to 75-78 degrees
while dancing. We keep it pretty windy, with lots of fans (quietest
ones in the hall are small Lasko units and louder ones in the back).
That being said, at what point do you cancel the dance because of
heat? Dancers are already complaining and all we can do is keep it
windy. Of course, we could cut our losses if minimum capacity of
dancers are not coming because of the heat. In the past & at another
hall, we used to cancel all of August because of heat, but I don't
know how you can make that call because you really don't know how it
will feel (or how many dancers will attend) until you get there.
Deanna Palumbo
/Chattahoochee Country Dancers, Atlanta, GA/
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22 Jul
22 Jul
5:44 a.m.
Deanna,
It is imperative to understand what dew point is and means. Humidity is
less important. Briefly, skin temp is mid 70's. If the dew point
exceeds mid 60's, humans get kinna miserable because sweat does not
evaporate well. This not only leaves people feeling sweaty and gross,
it also means they are getting minimal to none evaporative cooling,
which is our first cooling means. When dewpoint reaches mid 70's, life
is really miserable. That's tropical.
wunderground.com will give you local weather. You have to customize it
to get dewpoint. Dewpoint will be substantially lower in a hall with
AC. Besides cooling, AC condenses humidity out of the air, lowering the
dewpoint. You could get an instrument to measure dewpoint, or get a
temp/humidity instrument, and a data sheet on line telling you what
dewpoint is for a given temp and humidity.
You can see how awful it is for yourself dancing at what kinds of
dewpoints, and calibrate when you have zero interest in dancing. My
guess is that when HALL dewpoint exceeds 65 degrees your attendance will
fall off.
At our dance in Concord MA, we get 12 cans of lemonade and 40# of ice at
our higher temp evenings, which are cooler outdoors than GA. This is
for 140-180 people. When outdoors exceeds 90, our committee chair gets
frozen treats. We have only fans, no AC.
My own expectation is that 75-78 degrees in the hall should be quite
survivable. With AC the dewpoint will probably be in the low 60's. My
experience is that dancers are far more concerned about air moving over
their bodies than about temperature. Lots of controversy about fans
blowing in and fans blowing out. We always have all fans blowing in,
and a big cupola fan exhausting at the peak of the roof. Again, without AC.
I once calculated that at Scout House in Concord with 14 window fans
blowing in and the cupola fan blowing out, we get an air change in the
hall every two minutes. BUT with a room full of 100 watt generators
dancing vigorously, they raise the room temperature 12 degrees over the
outdoor air blowing into our un-air conditioned space.
At mid 70's with AC I doubt your attendance will fall off much.
Good luck. If you ever get around to quantifying your temp AND humidity
or dew point, I'd be _very_ interested. Particularly when your
attendance starts falling off due to heat.
I once danced in a hall in Maine that had maybe 6 square feet of window
space. I sweated _through_ my leather belt. But the crowd had a great
time.
I would not be surprised if southerners all used to strong AC would be
less tolerant of heat than us northerners without AC in our halls. :)
Mac Sloan
On 7/21/16 18:47, Deanna Palumbo via Organizers wrote:
With the current temps in the US at an alarming high,
our dance hall has
been running hot, with their one A/C unit cooling to 75-78 degrees while
dancing. We keep it pretty windy, with lots of fans (quietest ones in
the hall are small Lasko units and louder ones in the back).
That being said, at what point do you cancel the dance because of heat?
Dancers are already complaining and all we can do is keep it windy. Of
course, we could cut our losses if minimum capacity of dancers are not
coming because of the heat. In the past & at another hall, we used to
cancel all of August because of heat, but I don't know how you can make
that call because you really don't know how it will feel (or how many
dancers will attend) until you get there.
Deanna Palumbo
/Chattahoochee Country Dancers, Atlanta, GA/
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Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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12:51 p.m.
I don’t understand the principle behind having the fans blow air into the hall. Are you
not just adding the hot outside air into an already hot room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw cooler air from the basement, or other
cooler areas, into the main hall.
Orin
On Jul 22, 2016, at 1:44 AM, Walker Sloan via
Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Deanna,
It is imperative to understand what dew point is and means. Humidity is less important.
Briefly, skin temp is mid 70's. If the dew point exceeds mid 60's, humans get
kinna miserable because sweat does not evaporate well. This not only leaves people
feeling sweaty and gross, it also means they are getting minimal to none evaporative
cooling, which is our first cooling means. When dewpoint reaches mid 70's, life is
really miserable. That's tropical.
wunderground.com will give you local weather. You have to customize it to get dewpoint.
Dewpoint will be substantially lower in a hall with AC. Besides cooling, AC condenses
humidity out of the air, lowering the dewpoint. You could get an instrument to measure
dewpoint, or get a temp/humidity instrument, and a data sheet on line telling you what
dewpoint is for a given temp and humidity.
You can see how awful it is for yourself dancing at what kinds of dewpoints, and
calibrate when you have zero interest in dancing. My guess is that when HALL dewpoint
exceeds 65 degrees your attendance will fall off.
At our dance in Concord MA, we get 12 cans of lemonade and 40# of ice at our higher temp
evenings, which are cooler outdoors than GA. This is for 140-180 people. When outdoors
exceeds 90, our committee chair gets frozen treats. We have only fans, no AC.
My own expectation is that 75-78 degrees in the hall should be quite survivable. With AC
the dewpoint will probably be in the low 60's. My experience is that dancers are far
more concerned about air moving over their bodies than about temperature. Lots of
controversy about fans blowing in and fans blowing out. We always have all fans blowing
in, and a big cupola fan exhausting at the peak of the roof. Again, without AC.
I once calculated that at Scout House in Concord with 14 window fans blowing in and the
cupola fan blowing out, we get an air change in the hall every two minutes. BUT with a
room full of 100 watt generators dancing vigorously, they raise the room temperature 12
degrees over the outdoor air blowing into our un-air conditioned space.
At mid 70's with AC I doubt your attendance will fall off much.
Good luck. If you ever get around to quantifying your temp AND humidity or dew point,
I'd be _very_ interested. Particularly when your attendance starts falling off due to
heat.
I once danced in a hall in Maine that had maybe 6 square feet of window space. I sweated
_through_ my leather belt. But the crowd had a great time.
I would not be surprised if southerners all used to strong AC would be less tolerant of
heat than us northerners without AC in our halls. :)
Mac Sloan
On 7/21/16 18:47, Deanna Palumbo via Organizers wrote:
U.S. Virgin Islands Snow Plowing Service
Serving St. Croix, St. Thomas & St. John
Fast reliable service
Driveways and parking lots / No job too small or large
With the current temps in the US at an alarming
high, our dance hall has
been running hot, with their one A/C unit cooling to 75-78 degrees while
dancing. We keep it pretty windy, with lots of fans (quietest ones in
the hall are small Lasko units and louder ones in the back).
That being said, at what point do you cancel the dance because of heat?
Dancers are already complaining and all we can do is keep it windy. Of
course, we could cut our losses if minimum capacity of dancers are not
coming because of the heat. In the past & at another hall, we used to
cancel all of August because of heat, but I don't know how you can make
that call because you really don't know how it will feel (or how many
dancers will attend) until you get there.
Deanna Palumbo
/Chattahoochee Country Dancers, Atlanta, GA/
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12656 - Release Date: 07/21/16
_______________________________________________
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1:57 p.m.
In regards to the original question, I will toss out that it's
valuable to have a regular schedule for a dance. That way, people can
attend without having to check online first to see if the dance is
even happening or not. It can be worth holding dances on
low-attendance nights just for that reason.
There are many other factors as well, of course.
Lex
5:30 p.m.
Wouldn't it depend on the prevailing breeze if any? Sometimes I'd run the
left side blowing out, the right side in. And I was always checking them
becasue often spectators will turn the down or off.
Jeff
On Jul 22, 2016 8:51 AM, "Orin Nisenson via Organizers" <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I don’t understand the principle behind having the
fans blow air into the
hall. Are you not just adding the hot outside air into an already hot room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw cooler air from the
basement, or other cooler areas, into the main hall.
Orin
On Jul 22, 2016, at 1:44 AM, Walker Sloan via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Deanna,
It is imperative to understand what dew point is and means. Humidity is
less important. Briefly, skin temp is mid 70's. If the dew point exceeds
mid 60's, humans get kinna miserable because sweat does not evaporate
well. This not only leaves people feeling sweaty and gross, it also means
they are getting minimal to none evaporative cooling, which is our first
cooling means. When dewpoint reaches mid 70's, life is really miserable.
That's tropical.
wunderground.com will give you local weather. You have to customize it
to get dewpoint. Dewpoint will be substantially lower in a hall with AC.
Besides cooling, AC condenses humidity out of the air, lowering the
dewpoint. You could get an instrument to measure dewpoint, or get a
temp/humidity instrument, and a data sheet on line telling you what
dewpoint is for a given temp and humidity.
You can see how awful it is for yourself dancing at what kinds of
dewpoints, and calibrate when you have zero interest in dancing. My guess
is that when HALL dewpoint exceeds 65 degrees your attendance will fall off.
At our dance in Concord MA, we get 12 cans of lemonade and 40# of ice at
our higher temp evenings, which are cooler outdoors than GA. This is for
140-180 people. When outdoors exceeds 90, our committee chair gets frozen
treats. We have only fans, no AC.
My own expectation is that 75-78 degrees in the hall should be quite
survivable. With AC the dewpoint will probably be in the low 60's. My
experience is that dancers are far more concerned about air moving over
their bodies than about temperature. Lots of controversy about fans
blowing in and fans blowing out. We always have all fans blowing in, and a
big cupola fan exhausting at the peak of the roof. Again, without AC.
I once calculated that at Scout House in Concord with 14 window fans
blowing in and the cupola fan blowing out, we get an air change in the hall
every two minutes. BUT with a room full of 100 watt generators dancing
vigorously, they raise the room temperature 12 degrees over the outdoor air
blowing into our un-air conditioned space.
At mid 70's with AC I doubt your attendance will fall off much.
Good luck. If you ever get around to quantifying your temp AND humidity
or dew point, I'd be _very_ interested. Particularly when your attendance
starts falling off due to heat.
I once danced in a hall in Maine that had maybe 6 square feet of window
space. I sweated _through_ my leather belt. But the crowd had a great
time.
I would not be surprised if southerners all used to strong AC would be
less tolerant of heat than us northerners without AC in our halls. :)
Mac Sloan
On 7/21/16 18:47, Deanna Palumbo via Organizers wrote:
With the current temps in the US at an alarming high, our dance hall has
been running hot, with their one A/C unit cooling to 75-78 degrees while
dancing. We keep it pretty windy, with lots of fans (quietest ones in
the hall are small Lasko units and louder ones in the back).
That being said, at what point do you cancel the dance because of heat?
Dancers are already complaining and all we can do is keep it windy. Of
course, we could cut our losses if minimum capacity of dancers are not
coming because of the heat. In the past & at another hall, we used to
cancel all of August because of heat, but I don't know how you can make
that call because you really don't know how it will feel (or how many
dancers will attend) until you get there.
Deanna Palumbo
/Chattahoochee Country Dancers, Atlanta, GA/
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 2016.0.7688 / Virus Database: 4627/12656 - Release Date: 07/21/16
_______________________________________________
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U.S. Virgin Islands Snow Plowing Service
Serving St. Croix, St. Thomas & St. John
Fast reliable service
Driveways and parking lots / No job too small or large
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
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5:34 p.m.
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Orin Nisenson via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I don’t understand the principle behind having the
fans blow air into the
hall. Are you not just adding the hot outside air into an already hot room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw cooler air from the
basement, or other cooler areas, into the main hall.
The goal is to move as much air through the hall as possible, since
the outside air is cooler than the inside, and the dancers are
constantly heating up the inside air. There's not much cool air to
draw from other parts of this building.
9:35 p.m.
Wow, what a idea — canceling due to heat! Here in the frigid north, we
mostly have to worry about canceling because of snowstorms or ice storms.
Guess we all have our own extreme weather to worry about.
I'm attaching the cancelation procedure that our organizing group came up
with a couple years ago. The short version is that the person responsible
for opening the hall that night makes the call about weather safety by
Saturday morning, with help from other committee members if needed. We've
only had to implement this once, and it was a morning of many phone calls
between band members, committee members, caller, etc. (some of the band
members were willing to drive through the snow and ice, the caller and
other band members weren't, so it was tricky), and a pretty heart-wrenching
decision overall. We've maybe canceled two dances in 15 or 20 years.
For what it's worth, we set up our fans so that some of them suck air in
and others blow air out, to keep the airflow moving as much as we can. (We
have 3 or 4 box fans in the windows on on each side of the hall, other
windows and all the doors open, overhead fan on, extra fans for the stage
and band.) I would guess that we often dance in 80+ degree heat with 80% or
90% humidity in the summer. Dancers are good about drinking water, sitting
outside or in the basement to cool down, or going for a dip in the local
swimming hole after the dance! (I like your popsicle and ice policy,
Concord...)
Good luck,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Orin Nisenson via
Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
graphic design & layout
Montpelier, Vermont
802-505-6639
danadwya(a)gmail.com
I don’t understand the principle behind having
the fans blow air into the
hall. Are you not just adding the hot outside air into an already hot
room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw
cooler air from the
basement, or other cooler areas, into the main hall.
The goal is to move as much air through the hall as possible, since
the outside air is cooler than the inside, and the dancers are
constantly heating up the inside air. There's not much cool air to
draw from other parts of this building.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
23 Jul
23 Jul
2:23 p.m.
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and the topic of dew points came up in line last
night when I was dancing in North Whitefield, ME - where there was zero evaporative
cooling going on. Steam bath contras. Wowee! The grass outdoors and the cool basement
were well-populated during the break. But my, what a fun night.
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast, ME
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:35:40 -0400
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Organizers] When to cancel dance?
From: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Wow, what a idea — canceling due to heat! Here in the frigid north, we mostly have to
worry about canceling because of snowstorms or ice storms. Guess we all have our own
extreme weather to worry about.
I'm attaching the cancelation procedure that our organizing group came up with a
couple years ago. The short version is that the person responsible for opening the hall
that night makes the call about weather safety by Saturday morning, with help from other
committee members if needed. We've only had to implement this once, and it was a
morning of many phone calls between band members, committee members, caller, etc. (some of
the band members were willing to drive through the snow and ice, the caller and other band
members weren't, so it was tricky), and a pretty heart-wrenching decision overall.
We've maybe canceled two dances in 15 or 20 years.
For what it's worth, we set up our fans so that some of them suck air in and others
blow air out, to keep the airflow moving as much as we can. (We have 3 or 4 box fans in
the windows on on each side of the hall, other windows and all the doors open, overhead
fan on, extra fans for the stage and band.) I would guess that we often dance in 80+
degree heat with 80% or 90% humidity in the summer. Dancers are good about drinking water,
sitting outside or in the basement to cool down, or going for a dip in the local swimming
hole after the dance! (I like your popsicle and ice policy, Concord...)
Good luck,DanaMontpelier, VT
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Orin Nisenson via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
The goal is to move as much air through the hall as possible, since
the outside air is cooler than the inside, and the dancers are
constantly heating up the inside air. There's not much cool air to
draw from other parts of this building.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
graphic design & layout
Montpelier, Vermont
802-505-6639
danadwya(a)gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
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http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
I don’t understand the principle behind having the
fans blow air into the
hall. Are you not just adding the hot outside air into
an already hot room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw
cooler air from the
basement, or other cooler areas, into the main hall.
9:04 p.m.
I will add to Dana's comments about the fans that the Capital City Grange
Hall has large, built-in fans over the stage, which blow out. So by having
fans blowing in the windows we have air moving through the Hall, carrying
out the even-more-hot air that does its best to cool us. In Vermont we are
blessed with cooler nights than Atlanta, thank goodness, so the outside air
is generally better.
I certainly am glad that we don't have to think about air-conditioning the
Hall! As Dana says, winter snow storms are more of a threat than summer
heat, which we know won't last very long.
Tim Swartz, CDU dance committee
Master (with everyone's help)
Capital City Grange #469
On Sat, Jul 23, 2016 at 10:23 AM, Chrissy Fowler via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've enjoyed reading this thread, and the topic of
dew points came up in
line last night when I was dancing in North Whitefield, ME - where there
was zero evaporative cooling going on. Steam bath contras. Wowee! The
grass outdoors and the cool basement were well-populated during the break.
But my, what a fun night.
Chrissy Fowler
Belfast, ME
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Jul 2016 17:35:40 -0400
To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Organizers] When to cancel dance?
From: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Wow, what a idea — canceling due to heat! Here in the frigid north, we
mostly have to worry about canceling because of snowstorms or ice storms.
Guess we all have our own extreme weather to worry about.
I'm attaching the cancelation procedure that our organizing group came up
with a couple years ago. The short version is that the person responsible
for opening the hall that night makes the call about weather safety by
Saturday morning, with help from other committee members if needed. We've
only had to implement this once, and it was a morning of many phone calls
between band members, committee members, caller, etc. (some of the band
members were willing to drive through the snow and ice, the caller and
other band members weren't, so it was tricky), and a pretty heart-wrenching
decision overall. We've maybe canceled two dances in 15 or 20 years.
For what it's worth, we set up our fans so that some of them suck air in
and others blow air out, to keep the airflow moving as much as we can. (We
have 3 or 4 box fans in the windows on on each side of the hall, other
windows and all the doors open, overhead fan on, extra fans for the stage
and band.) I would guess that we often dance in 80+ degree heat with 80% or
90% humidity in the summer. Dancers are good about drinking water, sitting
outside or in the basement to cool down, or going for a dip in the local
swimming hole after the dance! (I like your popsicle and ice policy,
Concord...)
Good luck,
Dana
Montpelier, VT
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Jeff Kaufman via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 8:51 AM, Orin Nisenson via Organizers
<organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I don’t understand the principle behind having
the fans blow air into the
hall. Are you not just adding the hot outside air into an already hot
room?
By blowing the air out the air movement will draw
cooler air from the
basement, or other cooler areas, into the main hall.
The goal is to move as much air through the hall as possible, since
the outside air is cooler than the inside, and the dancers are
constantly heating up the inside air. There's not much cool air to
draw from other parts of this building.
_______________________________________________
Organizers mailing list
Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
--
Dana Dwinell-Yardley
graphic design & layout
Montpelier, Vermont
802-505-6639
danadwya(a)gmail.com
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9 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
-
Chrissy Fowler via Organizers -
Dana Dwinell-Yardley via Organizers
-
Deanna Palumbo via Organizers
-
Jeff Kaufman via Organizers
-
Jeff Raymond via Organizers
-
Lex Spoon via Organizers
-
Orin Nisenson via Organizers
-
Timothy Swartz via Organizers
-
Walker Sloan via Organizers
-
Winston, Alan P. via Organizers