As the original poster, I want to thank everyone who responded to my
question about how people's dance communities have experienced reopening
and also shutting down dances during this time. The information was useful
to me. Our community has made its decision (predictably, we're not holding
any in-person dances).
I very much agree with Seth. As moderator, he has the power and indeed it
is his role to keep conversation on-topic. This is internet etiquette. For
whatever it's worth, I'm not interested in debating any covid health
protocols. I don't think it's relevant to this particular conversation. If
people want to keep talking about it, then they should find other avenues
rather than to clog up this email thread.
Thanks so much to everyone who participated in the discussion of whether
anyone got sick at a dance (no one for certain) and about restarting and
re-canceling dances (it has happened).
Take care and be good to each other!
Liz Burkhart
On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 1:01 AM <organizers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
wrote:
> Send Organizers mailing list submissions to
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or
> body 'help' to
> organizers-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> organizers-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Organizers digest..."Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Woody Lane)
> 2. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Dale Wilson)
> 3. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Seth Seeger)
> 4. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Ron Blechner)
> 5. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Alan J Rosenthal)
> 6. Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing (Alex)
> 7. List Guidelines (Seth Seeger)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Woody Lane <woody(a)woodylane.com>
> To: Weogo Reed via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 05:58:39 +0000
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Some basic info about vitamin D. [In my other non-dancing life, I am a
> nutritionist -- a livestock nutritionist with a PhD from Cornell in Animal
> Nutrition.] The last time I looked, people -- at least most of them,
> including contra dancers -- have metabolic systems that are similar to
> other mammals.
>
> A lot of health claims are attributed to vitamin D. There are some good
> reasons for this, because Vitamin D is not a true vitamin; it's actually a
> hormone hiding under the vitamin moniker. And very powerful in its actions.
> The precursor to vitamin D is made in the skin by the application of
> ultraviolet light, usually from the sun. It's also absorbed from
> animal-based foods as vitamin D3. And from plant-based foods as vitamin D2.
> Either way, all these molecules travel to the liver where they are all
> changed into 25-D which is the form tested medically for blood levels. Then
> 25-D goes to the kidney where it is converted to 1,25-D which is the actual
> active molecule (technically named 1,25-dihydroxycalciferol). This form is
> relatively short-lived in the blood which is why it is not the actual test
> for vitamin D. Then 1,25-D is carried to all the cells in the body where it
> does some heavy-duty tasks. This 1,25-D enters the cell and through a
> complex series of steps, enters the nucleus where it affects the DNA. It
> acts like a toggle switch to turn on or turn off genes -- more than a
> thousand different genes -- which affect dozens of metabolic pathways. Some
> include calcium absorption and metabolism which influences bone density, of
> course; some involve the production of anti-microbial compounds; some
> involve the control of cell growth; some involve the release of cytokines
> which are small messenger molecules, etc. Importantly, the cytokines are
> deeply involved in the immunological responses to diseases. And vitamin D
> affects many other metabolic systems.
>
> Traditionally, the recommended nutritional levels of vitamin D were
> designed to prevent rickets (and the adult version, osteomalacia) and also
> osteoporosis. But that was the minimum. Recommended levels (Dietary
> Reference Intakes, DRI) have increased in recent years as we've learned
> more about vitamin D and its importance. DRI levels now are in the range of
> 600-800 IU per day, depending on age (of the person, not of the bottle of
> vitamins). Frankly, I think these are still on the low side, so personally
> I routinely take a daily dose of 2,000 IU, and my blood levels of 25-D are
> in the middle of the normal range. In reality, most people are generally
> mildly-to-strongly deficient in vitamin D, primarily because during the day
> they wear clothes and hats and apply sunscreen. OTOH, lots of sun has a
> very strong tendency to lead to skin cancers. Ask any dermatologist. So a
> pill containing vitamin D is a rational technique, although megadoses are
> not recommended.
>
> Yes, vitamin D is involved with the immune system, but it is not a
> treatment against viruses. It's a nutrient. Obtaining enough of it is a
> good thing, and it will help maintain the immune system to its
> functionality. But vitamin D is not a drug or a vaccine.
>
> But how can we, as dancers and dance organizers, use this information to
> our benefit? In a humble attempt to contribute constructively to this
> discussion as well as set a few records straight, here are some practical
> suggestions:
>
>
> * Dance contras and squares outdoors with no clothes on.
>
> * Do a lot of dancing because this word begins with the letter "D".
>
> * Never use sunblock when you dance indoors.
>
> * Eat highly bleached grass hay because it will have high levels of
> vitamin D2.
>
> * Always dance full heys rather than half-heys because a full 16-count
> "hay" can have twice as much vitamin D.
>
> * During the break, always go outdoors and sit in the sun. If there is no
> sun, especially at night, sit under a heat lamp and make believe it's the
> sun.
>
> * Don't eat any polar bear livers during the break because these can have
> toxic levels of vitamin A, and A is only three letters away from D.
>
> In the hope of dancing together again before 2026,
> Woody
>
> --
> Woody Lane
> Caller, Percussive Dancer
> Roseburg, Oregon
> ------------------------------
>
>
> On 8/23/2021 8:25 AM, Weogo Reed via Organizers wrote:
>
> Vitamin D:
> "Several recent studies have looked at the impact of vitamin D on
> COVID-19. One study of 489 people found that those who had a vitamin D
> deficiency were more likely to test positive for the virus that causes
> COVID-19 than people who had normal levels of vitamin D.
> Other research has observed high rates of vitamin D deficiency in
> people with COVID-19 who experienced acute respiratory failure. These
> people had a significantly higher risk of dying. And a small, randomized
> study found that of 50 people hospitalized with COVID-19 who were given
> a high dose of a type of vitamin D (calcifediol), only one needed
> treatment in the intensive care unit. In contrast, among the 26 people
> with COVID-19 who weren't given calcifediol, 13 needed to be treated in
> the intensive care unit."https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/c…
> Note that the current RDA(Recommended Daily Allowance) is for bone health.
> For optimal health, it may be more.
>
> From Liz:
> "Sunshine and fresh air will not keep you safe."
> Partially correct. They can increase your health and improve your
> body's covid response.
> Sunshine helps your body produce Vitamin D.
> Time outside for me generally equals exercise - in the garden,
> doing construction, walking/hiking and more.
> For the past year and a half, my one gig as a sound person was outside,
> providing audio for
> the local state university's graduation in May, with everybody masked
> and spaced 6'.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Dale Wilson <dale.wilson(a)gmail.com>
> To: Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:04:55 -0500
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> There is a lot of misinformation out there about Covid-19 and various folk
> remedies that are being recommended. Sometimes the people posting this
> information say something like "Studies have shown.." or "In a recent
> study..."
>
> Because misinformation can destroy people's lives (even if it doesn't kill
> them) anyone posting information from a study should include references to
> the original publications, or at least the name(s) of the author(s) of the
> study and a mention of the peer-reviewed journal in which the study results
> were published.
>
> Without this supporting information, the information is at best a
> distraction, and at worst a death sentence for people who cannot be
> vaccinated due to age or other physical limitation.
>
> Thank you for keeping this in mind,
>
> Dale Wilson
> Childgrove (St. Louis) Board Member.
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com>
> To: Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 11:10:11 -0400
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> Hi everyone,
>
> It's absolutely time to stop. We can discuss COVID and how it relates to
> organizing dances and when we should begin dancing again, but remedies,
> vaccinations, and preventions are now off limits. I'm sorry!
>
> Seth
>
> On Aug 25, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Dale Wilson via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> There is a lot of misinformation out there about Covid-19 and various folk
> remedies that are being recommended. Sometimes the people posting this
> information say something like "Studies have shown.." or "In a recent
> study..."
>
> Because misinformation can destroy people's lives (even if it doesn't kill
> them) anyone posting information from a study should include references to
> the original publications, or at least the name(s) of the author(s) of the
> study and a mention of the peer-reviewed journal in which the study results
> were published.
>
> Without this supporting information, the information is at best a
> distraction, and at worst a death sentence for people who cannot be
> vaccinated due to age or other physical limitation.
>
> Thank you for keeping this in mind,
>
> Dale Wilson
> Childgrove (St. Louis) Board Member.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ron Blechner <contraron(a)gmail.com>
> To: Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com>
> Cc: organizers shared weight <Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 11:23:18 -0400
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> Vaccinations are the best way we get back to dancing.
> I'm sorry, you cannot unilaterally demand that all organizers on this list
> stop talking about the primary way to stop the virus that's killing 600,000
> plus Americans and has kept us away from dancing for a year and a half.
>
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2021 at 11:13 AM Seth Seeger via Organizers <
> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> It's absolutely time to stop. We can discuss COVID and how it relates to
>> organizing dances and when we should begin dancing again, but remedies,
>> vaccinations, and preventions are now off limits. I'm sorry!
>>
>> Seth
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2021, at 11:04 AM, Dale Wilson via Organizers <
>> organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> There is a lot of misinformation out there about Covid-19 and various
>> folk remedies that are being recommended. Sometimes the people posting
>> this information say something like "Studies have shown.." or "In a recent
>> study..."
>>
>> Because misinformation can destroy people's lives (even if it doesn't
>> kill them) anyone posting information from a study should include
>> references to the original publications, or at least the name(s) of the
>> author(s) of the study and a mention of the peer-reviewed journal in which
>> the study results were published.
>>
>> Without this supporting information, the information is at best a
>> distraction, and at worst a death sentence for people who cannot be
>> vaccinated due to age or other physical limitation.
>>
>> Thank you for keeping this in mind,
>>
>> Dale Wilson
>> Childgrove (St. Louis) Board Member.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alan J Rosenthal <flaps(a)56789.ca>
> To: Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 11:34:45 -0400
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> If some people want to talk about a (sub)topic and others don't, why not
> create a separate mailing list for that topic?
>
> Then the discussion can continue unimpeded, without destroying this mailing
> list.
>
> Because things like this DO destroy mailing lists, because people
> unsubscribe
> from a mailing list which is dominated by a topic they find unworthy.
> Let's
> give such people a different mailing list to unsubscribe from instead, and
> divide topics between the two mailing lists appropriately.
>
> regards,
> ajr
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Alex <alex.shevits(a)gmail.com>
> To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:16:02 -0400
> Subject: [Organizers] Re: Vitamin D and Contra Dancing
> I have been deleting without reading this list for a long time now, but
> I have to weigh in with Alan Rosenthal. I unsubscribed from one of the
> CDSS list because I felt it was inappropriately being used (abused) to
> promote individual programs. I was getting ready to unsubscribe from
> this list too. Not because of the subject, but because the topic just
> didn't seem to know that it was done. Maybe having a time limit for
> each topic and creating a new thread for (sub) topics would help.
>
> Soon to exit, maybe,
>
> Alex Shevits
>
> On 8/25/2021 11:34 AM, Alan J Rosenthal via Organizers wrote:
> > If some people want to talk about a (sub)topic and others don't, why not
> > create a separate mailing list for that topic?
> >
> > Then the discussion can continue unimpeded, without destroying this
> mailing
> > list.
> >
> > Because things like this DO destroy mailing lists, because people
> unsubscribe
> > from a mailing list which is dominated by a topic they find unworthy.
> Let's
> > give such people a different mailing list to unsubscribe from instead,
> and
> > divide topics between the two mailing lists appropriately.
> >
> > regards,
> > ajr
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Seth Seeger <seth(a)tofutavern.com>
> To: organizers shared weight <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 14:40:23 -0400
> Subject: [Organizers] List Guidelines
> Dear Organizers,
>
> First off, I'd like to say that I am the solo moderator here, and I don't
> have a lot of time to spend on moderating this list. So please hang in
> there with me as we work through this.
>
> Secondly, the focus of this list is about organizing and running dances.
> In these times, we can expand that to include running dances safely in a
> pandemic. That said, this is not a place to discuss different COVID
> remedies. *The COVID-related topics on this list MUST be based on widely
> accepted scientific solutions.* At the moment, that
> includes vaccinations and wearing masks. The consensus of the medical
> community is that the COVID vaccines are both extremely safe and extremely
> effective at preventing serious infection.
>
> I need to draw a proactive line in the sand with these guidelines.
> *Any discussions of COVID-related cures, preventions, medications, etc
> that are not widely accepted will result in a warning. A second time will
> result in being removed from the list.*
> I understand that some of you may have been hurt or betrayed by our
> medical community. And that in plenty of examples, the medical
> establishment has been behind the times. However, we have a lot of
> scientists right now looking at all things COVID. In order to maintain a
> functional mailing list where everyone feels safe, we need to limit
> conversations to currently, widely accepted solutions.
>
> If you have feedback or questions about this, please write to me directly,
> off-list.
>
> Thank you,
> Seth
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list -- organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to organizers-leave(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>
Dear Organizers,
First off, I'd like to say that I am the solo moderator here, and I don't have a lot of time to spend on moderating this list. So please hang in there with me as we work through this.
Secondly, the focus of this list is about organizing and running dances. In these times, we can expand that to include running dances safely in a pandemic. That said, this is not a place to discuss different COVID remedies. The COVID-related topics on this list MUST be based on widely accepted scientific solutions. At the moment, that includes vaccinations and wearing masks. The consensus of the medical community is that the COVID vaccines are both extremely safe and extremely effective at preventing serious infection.
I need to draw a proactive line in the sand with these guidelines. Any discussions of COVID-related cures, preventions, medications, etc that are not widely accepted will result in a warning. A second time will result in being removed from the list.
I understand that some of you may have been hurt or betrayed by our medical community. And that in plenty of examples, the medical establishment has been behind the times. However, we have a lot of scientists right now looking at all things COVID. In order to maintain a functional mailing list where everyone feels safe, we need to limit conversations to currently, widely accepted solutions.
If you have feedback or questions about this, please write to me directly, off-list.
Thank you,
Seth
There is a lot of misinformation out there about Covid-19 and various folk
remedies that are being recommended. Sometimes the people posting this
information say something like "Studies have shown.." or "In a recent
study..."
Because misinformation can destroy people's lives (even if it doesn't kill
them) anyone posting information from a study should include references to
the original publications, or at least the name(s) of the author(s) of the
study and a mention of the peer-reviewed journal in which the study results
were published.
Without this supporting information, the information is at best a
distraction, and at worst a death sentence for people who cannot be
vaccinated due to age or other physical limitation.
Thank you for keeping this in mind,
Dale Wilson
Childgrove (St. Louis) Board Member.
Hi all, with some dances resuming for the summer, I'd like to hear how
that's been for dance communities. Have groups started and then stopped? Is
there any news of infections from dance camps or weekends? I know Pinewoods
heightened their requirements (from just vaccination to also multiple
negative tests + masking for the first few days of American Week), and then
cancelled the rest of their camps.
Thanks,
Liz Burkhart (she/her)
Organizer with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers
Thanks Paul,
Trying to stay in the factual world and out of speculation and opinion.
Sent from miHand,
Peter
NH
> On Aug 24, 2021, at 12:44 AM, Paul Wilde <zenyente(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> Beautifully said. Kudos for getting to the heart of the matter.
> This is exactly how I feel. We have a huge responsibility to
> the entire community within and beyond the dance halls.
>
> Thank you,
> Paul W.
> Prov RI
Hi all,
Numbers keep ramping up here and everywhere with very few very isolated exceptions.
Anecdotes are not complete science but here are a couple of facts:
My dad has been in a vets home before and through this pandemic. 100% by his own choice. Had lots of options pre-pandemic and since. He chooses to stay.
If you heard about the vets home in MA, you’ll know that was a wake up call for all vet homes.
My dad’s place was fine for quite some time. Very careful, but suddenly, before the vaccines, COVID got in and 37 died of it. Strict lockdown kept most of them safe going forward.
Post vaccine, all but one got vaccinated. No deaths since and they were visiting and traveling freely. (Don’t know about the one who chose not to vax).
Staff aren’t (weren’t?) required to get vaccinated and one of the hands-on staff recently tested positive. The whole place is under quarantine again. Lucky so far.
That’s an anecdotal fact. Generally accepted science is not surprised.
Another fact, as most folks here know, kids are very unlikely to die from the earlier strains of COVID; the new variants effects are to-be-determined. But we do know at least anecdotally that they are getting much sicker under delta when they do get sick and just like dancers in a contra line, kids in schools are great vectors, both amongst themselves and back home and across the community, in part BECAUSE they can’t be vaccinated.
This discussion is not only or primarily about our own personal health, or about the well-being of our dancers and musicians; it is about protecting those everywhere that are most vulnerable, whether they dance or not, those in the wider community, including all of those who thought they were healthy but got very sick anyway, with too many dying.
We will dance again, and it will be sooner if we all take every precaution now, including being a little uncomfortable and unhappy in the short-term for the good of everyone in the long term.
Regardless of opinions about vaccines or chances of personal survival, it seems pretty clear we are currently headed in the wrong direction, and I’d like to think this dance community has the greater community in mind when thinking about and deciding what to do going forward.
We will dance again, but let’s be sure we don’t put others at risk for the sake of our desires.
💃 🕺
Sent from miHand,
Peter
PS: The Vaccine Dinner Club (VDC) is having an online presentation on Wednesday, September 1 -- see here <http://www.cfar.emory.edu/vdc/calendar/sep.php> for more details and registration. Hope to see many of you there.
Hi All,
I'm not a list moderator for this particular SW list but I am a list
moderator for two other SW lists.
What I've noticed over the past few days on this list is that some pretty
divisive and inflammatory language has come up.
Here is text from the Shared Weight website which applies to all SW lists:
*FIRST AND FOREMOST – we are supportive of each other!As members of Shared
Weight, we treat our fellow list members with kindness, understanding and
support. We enjoy lively debate but prize civility. Be conscious of the
difference between facts and opinions.Language that puts down the ideas of
others or that is aggressive will not be tolerated. However, it’s also
important to remember that most people do have an occasional bad day and
are capable of change.*
I appreciate the conversation about COVID specifically as it relates to
organizing dances. However, it doesn't seem as though that the broader
discussion about COVID and vaccines belongs on this particular list.
And I encourage us all to consider looking at our emails through the lens
of being supportive of each other and treating each other with kindness and
understanding.
Emily
Hi Mac,
On 8/19/2021 2:50 PM, Walker Sloan via Organizers wrote:
>
> Breathtaking!
>
> "Big + for dancing, and singing together is an excellent builder of
> social capital!"
>
> The two MOST EFFICIENT methods possible for spreading COVID.
> Literally, you cannot invent more efficient activities for mass
> spreader events.
Agreed, very effective methods of spreading anything respiratory!
Does mass spreader event necessarily equal mass sickness, injury and
death?
All activities have risk.
I believe that, from a longer term point of view, climate change is a
much bigger issue than covid.
When we are past covid, supporting healthy, community-building
activities is a good thing, yes?
More than 40% of Americans are obese.
Many health issues would be lower if we were healthier.
Physical activity is one key.
We are social creatures.
We have been having one or two friends over in the garden or on the porch.
Tomorrow we have six neighbors coming over a four hour time period.
For me, meeting online pales compared to the real thing.
What do you suggest for keeping up social connections?
I apologize to the list if I'm too far off topic...
Thanks and good health, Weogo
