9 Apr
2015
9 Apr
'15
10:46 p.m.
Hi dance musicians :)
I lamented watching some amazing conversations happening last month about
open & community bands ... I'm hoping to chime-in much belatedly with
Ottawa's experience. But first, I have a different question all together
for the group!
Way up here in Ottawa, it's hard for our local dance musicians to get much
experience playing dance music with anyone other than other local musicians.
Thus the question: Have any of you had local musicians 'sit in' when you've
played as the hired band? This idea came up at Puttin' On The Dance 2 and
we have a few keen musicians who would like to do this as part of their
strategy for improving their chops. I've since talked to two touring
musicians who are very open to this and think that some other bands may
also be open. However, I anticipate that other bands may not be open.
So, if you have experienced something like this...
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
Re sit ins... I'm talking about musicians who already have some dance
experience (not random musicians).
With thanks!
Emily in Ottawa
10 Apr
10 Apr
7:16 a.m.
(Cross posting my reply to the callers list.)
It depends on what your goals are. If you want to give the dancers there
that night the best music you can give them that usually means letting your
touring band play on their own. Most bands have their own tunes,
arrangements, and style, and when fitting in extra musicians that's often
hard to communicate and organize in the time available. Especially if this
is a band known for having a tight sound, you're going to lose that when
you add more people.
But this may be worth it if your main goal is building local capacity. Yes,
the music that night won't be as good, but if you can make up for that when
the local musicians who sat in are playing on their own it's good on
balance. If you go this route it's important that the sit ins are there
because they want to learn and not just because it would be fun to play
with the visiting musicians, or else you're not really being fair to the
dancers.
(You do still want to check with the band, because the amount the band's
sounds will change when they incorporate new musicians is variable. At one
extreme you have groups like Perpetual eMotion, at the other you have
groups of individually excellent musicians who have more of a pickup band
style among themselves. The more pickupish a band is the better they'll be
able to integrate new musicians, and the way to find out is to ask them
what they'd think.)
(The above is all talking about sit ins who are included in the overall
sound and that the band is trying to coordinate with. It's also possible to
allow sit ins to sit well behind the band off mic while the band plays
whatever they normally would. This is what BIDA does, though people only
rarely show up. Some musicians find it annoying to have people noodling
along behind them, others don't care.)
On Apr 9, 2015 10:46 PM, "Emily Addison via Musicians" <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi dance musicians :)
I lamented watching some amazing conversations happening last month about
open & community bands ... I'm hoping to chime-in much belatedly with
Ottawa's experience. But first, I have a different question all together
for the group!
Way up here in Ottawa, it's hard for our local dance musicians to get much
experience playing dance music with anyone other than other local musicians.
Thus the question: Have any of you had local musicians 'sit in' when
you've played as the hired band? This idea came up at Puttin' On The Dance
2 and we have a few keen musicians who would like to do this as part of
their strategy for improving their chops. I've since talked to two touring
musicians who are very open to this and think that some other bands may
also be open. However, I anticipate that other bands may not be open.
So, if you have experienced something like this...
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
Re sit ins... I'm talking about musicians who already have some dance
experience (not random musicians).
With thanks!
Emily in Ottawa
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
9:39 a.m.
I've sat in with several touring bands in my area, though it hasn't been
anything officially sanctioned by dance organizers. So I'll answer from
personal experience rather than from general knowledge of having tried
different ways of working it:
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
The better I know a band and its sound, the better I fit in when I ask or
am asked to sit in. What's worked for me so far is either asking or just
being invited, usually when it's a band I know well who's touring in the
area. I think it takes some subtlety to know when it's appropriate to ask,
either as an organizer trying to facilitate sit-ins or a musician trying to
make it happen in your area. I don't actually know how to explain which
bands are better for sit-ins; I agree with Jeff that pick-up bands would
theoretically work well, but in my experience, the bands I'm likely to be
asked to sit in with don't have notably less tight arrangements than other
bands (Great Bear Trio, Giant Robot Dance, and the Free Raisins all have
very tight arrangements but yet welcome sit-ins at times; on the other
hand, the Latter Day Lizards have extremely loose arrangements, but I've
never heard of anybody sitting in with them).
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
On mic depending on the person. Off-mic only, you might as well play with
recordings. Which can be fun, but isn't really a great way to grow local
musicians who already know how to play for dances and are looking to take
their skills to the next level. Max people on stage, yes, maybe two
sit-ins on mic (others playing quietly behind, where the main musicians
don't hear them much, don't count). I think, for touring bands, a few
designated sets makes a lot more sense than trying to accommodate a sit-in
for the entire time. Bands know their own music and know what sets are
appropriate for others to quickly jump in.
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
If I were touring, I'd want an organizer to first explain that they're
trying to grow their local musician communities, ask if I'd like to have a
sit-in musician play with us for a set or two, and offer to put me in touch
with the person who would be sitting in. Ideally, this person would be
somebody I already know or at least have heard play before. What I
wouldn't want is for an organizer to ask for too much-- either in terms of
the musician's inexperience or inability, or the number of musicians, or
the number of sets.
-Dave
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Musicians <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
(Cross posting my reply to the callers list.)
It depends on what your goals are. If you want to give the dancers there
that night the best music you can give them that usually means letting your
touring band play on their own. Most bands have their own tunes,
arrangements, and style, and when fitting in extra musicians that's often
hard to communicate and organize in the time available. Especially if this
is a band known for having a tight sound, you're going to lose that when
you add more people.
But this may be worth it if your main goal is building local capacity.
Yes, the music that night won't be as good, but if you can make up for that
when the local musicians who sat in are playing on their own it's good on
balance. If you go this route it's important that the sit ins are there
because they want to learn and not just because it would be fun to play
with the visiting musicians, or else you're not really being fair to the
dancers.
(You do still want to check with the band, because the amount the band's
sounds will change when they incorporate new musicians is variable. At one
extreme you have groups like Perpetual eMotion, at the other you have
groups of individually excellent musicians who have more of a pickup band
style among themselves. The more pickupish a band is the better they'll be
able to integrate new musicians, and the way to find out is to ask them
what they'd think.)
(The above is all talking about sit ins who are included in the overall
sound and that the band is trying to coordinate with. It's also possible to
allow sit ins to sit well behind the band off mic while the band plays
whatever they normally would. This is what BIDA does, though people only
rarely show up. Some musicians find it annoying to have people noodling
along behind them, others don't care.)
On Apr 9, 2015 10:46 PM, "Emily Addison via Musicians" <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
Hi dance musicians :)
I lamented watching some amazing conversations happening last month about
open & community bands ... I'm hoping to chime-in much belatedly with
Ottawa's experience. But first, I have a different question all together
for the group!
Way up here in Ottawa, it's hard for our local dance musicians to get
much experience playing dance music with anyone other than other local
musicians.
Thus the question: Have any of you had local musicians 'sit in' when
you've played as the hired band? This idea came up at Puttin' On The Dance
2 and we have a few keen musicians who would like to do this as part of
their strategy for improving their chops. I've since talked to two touring
musicians who are very open to this and think that some other bands may
also be open. However, I anticipate that other bands may not be open.
So, if you have experienced something like this...
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
Re sit ins... I'm talking about musicians who already have some dance
experience (not random musicians).
With thanks!
Emily in Ottawa
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
9:50 a.m.
Thanks for bringing up musician initiated guests; I was thinking more about
organizer initiated ones. Playing with the Free Raisins if there's a
musician we've played with a lot, individually or as a group, we're often
up for having them on stage on mic. But (a) this is about having fun,
making the music better, and making it more fun to dance to instead of
building local capacity and (b) the list of musicians we're this
comfortable with is pretty short.
And you're right that my description of which bands are likely to work well
with sit ins isn't very good. Pretty much need to ask, and with care to
distinguish a yes that means "we like doing this sort of thing" from "we
feel like you're requiring us to".
One thing I'm looking forward to doing in a few months is leading and
anchoring an open band as the Free Raisins. This isn't something we've done
before, but I think there's a lot of potential.
On Apr 10, 2015 9:40 AM, "Dave Casserly via Musicians" <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I've sat in with several touring bands in my area,
though it hasn't been
anything officially sanctioned by dance organizers. So I'll answer from
personal experience rather than from general knowledge of having tried
different ways of working it:
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
The better I know a band and its sound, the better I fit in when I ask or
am asked to sit in. What's worked for me so far is either asking or just
being invited, usually when it's a band I know well who's touring in the
area. I think it takes some subtlety to know when it's appropriate to ask,
either as an organizer trying to facilitate sit-ins or a musician trying to
make it happen in your area. I don't actually know how to explain which
bands are better for sit-ins; I agree with Jeff that pick-up bands would
theoretically work well, but in my experience, the bands I'm likely to be
asked to sit in with don't have notably less tight arrangements than other
bands (Great Bear Trio, Giant Robot Dance, and the Free Raisins all have
very tight arrangements but yet welcome sit-ins at times; on the other
hand, the Latter Day Lizards have extremely loose arrangements, but I've
never heard of anybody sitting in with them).
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
On mic depending on the person. Off-mic only, you might as well play with
recordings. Which can be fun, but isn't really a great way to grow local
musicians who already know how to play for dances and are looking to take
their skills to the next level. Max people on stage, yes, maybe two
sit-ins on mic (others playing quietly behind, where the main musicians
don't hear them much, don't count). I think, for touring bands, a few
designated sets makes a lot more sense than trying to accommodate a sit-in
for the entire time. Bands know their own music and know what sets are
appropriate for others to quickly jump in.
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
If I were touring, I'd want an organizer to first explain that they're
trying to grow their local musician communities, ask if I'd like to have a
sit-in musician play with us for a set or two, and offer to put me in touch
with the person who would be sitting in. Ideally, this person would be
somebody I already know or at least have heard play before. What I
wouldn't want is for an organizer to ask for too much-- either in terms of
the musician's inexperience or inability, or the number of musicians, or
the number of sets.
-Dave
On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 7:16 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Musicians <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
(Cross posting my reply to the callers list.)
It depends on what your goals are. If you want to give the dancers there
that night the best music you can give them that usually means letting your
touring band play on their own. Most bands have their own tunes,
arrangements, and style, and when fitting in extra musicians that's often
hard to communicate and organize in the time available. Especially if this
is a band known for having a tight sound, you're going to lose that when
you add more people.
But this may be worth it if your main goal is building local capacity.
Yes, the music that night won't be as good, but if you can make up for that
when the local musicians who sat in are playing on their own it's good on
balance. If you go this route it's important that the sit ins are there
because they want to learn and not just because it would be fun to play
with the visiting musicians, or else you're not really being fair to the
dancers.
(You do still want to check with the band, because the amount the band's
sounds will change when they incorporate new musicians is variable. At one
extreme you have groups like Perpetual eMotion, at the other you have
groups of individually excellent musicians who have more of a pickup band
style among themselves. The more pickupish a band is the better they'll be
able to integrate new musicians, and the way to find out is to ask them
what they'd think.)
(The above is all talking about sit ins who are included in the overall
sound and that the band is trying to coordinate with. It's also possible to
allow sit ins to sit well behind the band off mic while the band plays
whatever they normally would. This is what BIDA does, though people only
rarely show up. Some musicians find it annoying to have people noodling
along behind them, others don't care.)
On Apr 9, 2015 10:46 PM, "Emily Addison via Musicians" <
musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
Hi dance musicians :)
I lamented watching some amazing conversations happening last month
about open & community bands ... I'm hoping to chime-in much belatedly with
Ottawa's experience. But first, I have a different question all together
for the group!
Way up here in Ottawa, it's hard for our local dance musicians to get
much experience playing dance music with anyone other than other local
musicians.
Thus the question: Have any of you had local musicians 'sit in' when
you've played as the hired band? This idea came up at Puttin' On The Dance
2 and we have a few keen musicians who would like to do this as part of
their strategy for improving their chops. I've since talked to two touring
musicians who are very open to this and think that some other bands may
also be open. However, I anticipate that other bands may not be open.
So, if you have experienced something like this...
1. What worked or didn't work for you?
2. How would you ideally like it structured? Off mic only or on mic
depending on the person? Would you want a max number of people on stage and
if so what? Would you be open to a 'sit in' at any time or only on a few
designated sets? Other thoughts?
3. And how would you like to be approached by the organizers? This would
definitely be a choice thing... not forced!!! I'm thinking more on how it
could be thoughtfully presented and facilitated.
Re sit ins... I'm talking about musicians who already have some dance
experience (not random musicians).
With thanks!
Emily in Ottawa
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net
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3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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Dave Casserly via Musicians -
Emily Addison via Musicians
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Jeff Kaufman via Musicians