Looking again at the transcription of "Back Up and Push" at
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
, I see that I indeed looked too hastily at it before composing my previous message. What
I mistook for a sharp in the key signature is actually an accidental (and on D, not on F
as the sharp would be in the key of G major). So the transcription is indeed in the key
of C, not G. Thanks to Joe Michaels for reporting his conversation with John Burke and
getting me to look again.
That said, the pair of notes I discussed in my previous message--corresponding to
"told me" in the "Rubber Dolly" song--still exhibit a melodic
difference between the two transcriptions I cited: "mi mi" in "Rubber
Dolly" vs. a descending "re la" (not "sol re" as I previously
stated) in "Back Up and Push". And unless I've erred about how what I'm
hearing is supposed to line up with the bar lines of the sheet music, it's also still
true that where the transcriptions I've cited have two notes (whether "mi
mi" or "re la"), the banjo rendition of "Rubber Dolly" that I
cited has seven notes, though my ears aren't well enough trained to say just what
pitches they are. So the whole situation still leaves me pondering the question of how
much rhythmic and melodic change a tune can take and still be "the same".
On a side topic, I may just be revealing my ignorance as a person of negligible musical
accomplishment, but I'm never sure quite what to make of it when someone asserts that
a tune "is in" such and such a key, instead of merely saying that the tune is
usually/traditionally played in that key, or that it's usually played in that key in a
particular community. I wonder how often those key choices are just the result of
historical circumstances, such as lots of people learning a tune directly or indirectly
from someone who happened to play it in a particular key, and how often there are things
about a tune that genuinely make it easier to play or make it sound better in a particular
key, such as things about the fingerings you'd have to use or the notes that land on
open strings on particular instruments in particular tunings.
I did a little searching for notations of "Back Up and Push" and among those I
found, notations in C were indeed the most common. However I also found this one in A
http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.mandozine.com/music/TOW/TOW-2007-abc.…
and these in D
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
(see third transcription on the page)
https://www.celticguitarmusic.com/tbot_backup.htm
(near middle of page)
http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/bluegrass-songbook/000563.HTM
and this partial version in G
http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=www.thomasbending.co.uk/titleless/Anon031…
I also found some transcriptions that seemed to be for a very different tune (perhaps the
Ward Allen tune listed in
tunearch.org as "Back Up and Push (2)"?), but I'll
consider those irrelevant for present purposes.
--Jim
On Nov 2, 2019, at 11:49 AM, joe micheals
<joemicheals1(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Checking with John Burke an old time fiddler in Seattle he said Rubber Dolly is in the
key of whoever sings it. Back up and Push is in C but the “B” part starts on the 4 chord
(F). The same tune though...
> On Oct 30, 2019, at 8:30 PM, jim saxe via Musicians
<musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks to Jim McKinney, David Firestine, and John Beland for identifying "Dusty
Roads" as "My Love Is [/She's] but a Lassie-O [/Lassie Yet]," also
known by many other names (see
>
>
https://tunearch.org/wiki/My_Love_is_but_a_Lassie_Yet_(1)
>
> ) including "Too Young to Marry," and not to be confused, by the way, with
"Take Me Back to Tulsa," also also known as "Too Young to Marry."
>
> Regarding "Rubber Dolly"/"Back Up And Push," the annotations at
>
>
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Rubber_Dolly_(1)
>
> mention the song lyrics
>
> My mama told me, If I'd be goody
> That she would buy me, a rubber dolly
> ...
>
> one version of which can be heard, for example, here:
>
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPquvsacG5M
>
> Looking at the musical score on
>
>
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Rubber_Dolly_(1)
>
> I believe the words "told" and "me" in the song correspond the
first two notes of the first full measure: a quarter-note for "told" and a
quarter note tied to an eighth note for "me", both on C-sharp, or scale degree 3
(mi) in the key of A major. In the music for "Back Up and Push" at
>
>
https://tunearch.org/wiki/Back_Up_and_Push_(1)
>
> (notated as 2/2 instead of 4/4 and in the key of G instead of A),
[Correction: The cited transcription of Back Up and Push is in C, not G. --js]
> I believe the corresponding notes are a half note
on D (sol in G major)
[Correction: That should read
... (re in C major)
--js]
> and a half note tied to a quarter note on A (re).
[Correction: ... on A (la). --js]
> So those notes are rhythmically the same in (the
cited transcription of) "Rubber Dolly" as in (the cited transcription of)
"Back Up and Push, but melodically different: "mi mi" in RD vs. "sol
re" in BUAP).
[Corrrection: That should read
... (... but melodically different: "mi mi" in RD vs. "re la"
[descending] in BUAP.)
--js]
Listening to the rendition of "Rubber Dolly" at
https://www.ceder.net/recorddb/viewsingle.php?RecordId=9791&SqlId=249698
that I cited in my earlier message, I think that in the place where I've just
described transcriptions on tunearch as having two long notes, the banjo player (Jack
Hawes) on the record plays seven notes:
told (ti-ka) me (ti-ka) ee
And yet I can still detect (albeit with a little stretching) a resemblance between that
recording and some recordings I've found of "Back Up and Push." But it does
set me wondering just how much two musical performances can differ from each other
rhythmically and/or melodically and still be regarded as renditions of the
"same" tune.
As I write this, I'm reminded of an occasion about 15 years ago when I was sitting in
a dining area with one of my aunts and she asked if I knew what tune was playing on the
P.A. system. I said I thought it was "Tea for Two" but she said it sounded
nothing like "Tea for Two". Years later (unfortunately when my aunt was no
longer living), I happened to hear this on the radio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLDHCDz7S2g
and the mystery was solved when the DJ announced the title.
--Jim
_______________________________________________
Musicians mailing list
Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net