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3 participants
339 discussions

by Chrissy Fowler

New to the list and adding our 2 cents from Belfast, ME. PHILOSOPHY & BACKGROUND Our committee would agree with Dave Cain's assertion that it's vital to invest in making our dance appealing to the masses. We strive to have high quality bands and callers in a nice hall, and have spent time and energy building our community. We also decided that we wanted to take in enough money each month to pay performers a guarantee plus a performer split of 80% of whatever is left of the gate after expenses. (Our policy is to keep 20% of that remaining gate to hedge against future losses.) We aren't making our performers rich, but we have a reasonable kitty built up, portions of which we have used to pay performers a little bit extra in lean months and to support special projects, including donations to the roof fund of our American Legion hall, minor hall improvements, professional website mgmt, subsidizing other community dances as outreach, and new caller development. We have 3 threads to our monthly (1st Friday) series: 6:30-7:30 - Community Dance with open All-Comers Band 7:30- 8:00 - Tasty Treat potluck 8:00- 11:00 - Contradance ADMISSION PRICES: We started our series in Dec 05 with these rates: Community Dance $2 adults $1 kids free for musicians playing in the all-comers band Contra Dance $8 ($4 kids) $6 for adults who came to the community dance (and either paid $2 or played in the band) $3 for kids who came to the community dance After a year, with many requests for teen rates, we changed to: Community Dance Only: $2 adults $1 teens/kids free for musicians playing in the all-comers band Contras only -or- both Community and Contra Dances $8 adults $6 young people 21 and under / all-comers musicians $4 kids 12 and under a small group of dedicated volunteers and the dance committee don't pay After 10pm it's half price and whenever the money gets counted, it's free. ATTENDANCE: We regularly get 20-25 musicians of all ages and instruments in the all-comers band, 25-60 dancers at the community dance, and 130-180 dancers at the contras, including a healthy number of teens and kids. (We've had numbers higher and lower than those ranges, but that's about what we expect now.) Our proportion of youth is quite large now, but that may not be related to our price change. I agree with Dan that the discount is a psychological welcome mat for those young people, who add a lot in terms of zestiness and 'life' to our dance. MORE PHILOSOPHY: We believe that up to a point, price isn't a consideration, but that people come because they will see friends, will enjoy great music (some of which is made by their friends, family and neighbors) and can participate in an excellent community activity (dancing). And if we were charging less, we would have less to pay out, we would less easily attract the same caliber of performers which in turn attracts the dancers. (The dance is very fun to perform for, with extremely appreciative dancers, so some folks would want to play and call anyhow, but we appreciate the variety that's possible by offering performers both adulation and cash.) With all the things that people could spend $8 on (including cheap plastic junk that they'll toss on the landfill) we think our dance is a bargain. ACCOUNTING: We don't separate the money for the community and contras. We don't track who pays what. (Too complicated for the door-sitters.) It all goes into the same pot, which basically pays the bills for the contras (performer pay, sound, hall, expenses.) We do have small stipends for active committee members, which we take out as part of the expenses for each dance. (All-comers anchors, Community Dance caller, publicity/marketing) This token is appreciated and helps us feel like we are in some way compensated for our time and effort, but it is small enough that we feel okay about it on principle. We don't track #s of dancers, but occasionally do head counts just to get a general sense of the #s. We also track #s of attendees via the door prize tickets. And just to get a consistent data point to track, we divide the total take by $8, which gives us a figure for the approx number of dancers. (All very non-scientific, but consistent in our methods.) We do track #s of All-Comers, as a byproduct of a sign-in book that lets us acknowledge each musician by name at the end of the Community Dance. Nice to be part of this ongoing conversation. I love hearing the different stories from different places, and seeing how one idea in one dance community can be tweaked (a little or a lot) so that it better fits another dance community. To quote Billy Bragg: "I went out drinking with Thomas Paine. He said that all revolutions (and dances) are not the same. They're as different as the cultures that gave them birth - no one idea can solve every problem on earth... For people are different and so are nations (and dances!) You can borrow ideas but you can't borrow situations." ~Chrissy Fowler ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.belfastflyingshoes.org _________________________________________________________________ Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

16 years, 3 months

[Organizers] Annual Ralph Page Gathering

by Chris Weiler (home)

Hello everyone, Cynthia beat me to the punch. Yes, it's time for the Ralph Page Dance Legacy Weekend again. Yes, we shall have a SharedWeight gathering during lunch on Saturday in the dining area. For those who haven't been there before, we push a bunch of tables together for an informal gathering. I always look forward to seeing people from far away and meeting people new to the lists. I try to be there early with a little printed SharedWeight sign on the table at the back of the dining hall. You'll recognize me on the dance floor sporting a tie-dye bandanna. Or you can look at the picture on my website: http://www.chrisweiler.ws/ Safe travels everyone! Chris Weiler Goffstown, NH

16 years, 3 months

[Organizers] Re; Begginer Dancers/children

by gtwood＠worldpath.net

Hi Ricky I'll echo what Chris has said: Dances that I attend, with the possible exception of Gilmanton NH, I find it's harder to get the Experianced/Non-experianced dancers to mingle than to seperate them. More to the point; folks with children tend to gravitate to a common line because it gives the kids a place to jump around without the pressure of doing the dance 'correctly' all the way through. That being said, I have had the pleasure of watching very young dancers come up through the beginner lines to become exceptional dancers and well rounded young adults! A joy to dance with! -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you? http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint

16 years, 4 months

Re: [Organizers] Child and others friendly line (Rickey)

by Bobfab＠aol.com

We've occasionally asked the caller to announce before the break that the first contra after the break will be a "No Walk Through." We leave it up to the caller's discretion, if he thinks there are enough "good" dancers and few enough newbies. It's never exactly a challenging dance, but it is a perk for the experienced dancers to not have to teach that one to newbie partners and neighbors. We chose after the break because the newbies can still get a few more of the goodies while watching, and even add it if they think they can do it after watching. It was a long long board meeting to come up with something that satisfied all the concerns. Downside is that some newbies go home, but that happens anyway with a Thursday dance from 8-11pm. Bob ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

16 years, 4 months

Re: [Organizers] Child and others friendly line

by Rickey

Another line question: I often have some experienced folks (and I would like some more), mixed in with lots of very beginners. When these experienced dancers come they are always very friendly to the others and very helpful. I would like to thank them with some more complex dances, without asking them to wait until the very end. Do you think that a beginner's line and an "experienced line" could be organized without it seeming unfriendly? Has anyone ever tried such a thing? Rickey Holt, Fremont, NH -----Original Message----- From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net Sent: Monday, December 17, 2007 12:00 PM To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: Organizers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 Send Organizers mailing list submissions to organizers(a)sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at organizers-owner(a)sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Organizers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Children at Contradance Festivals (Bobfab(a)aol.com) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:59:41 EST From: Bobfab(a)aol.com Subject: [Organizers] Children at Contradance Festivals To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net Message-ID: <c5c.217669c3.349723fd(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" The surveys from the recent Rochester Contra/Swing Thanksgiving weekend had 2 individual comments regarding children making the dancing less enjoyable. The circumstances were regarding a child (5 years old) who was *forced* to dance by his parent, in the *evening* contra and afternoon English dance. The child is capable with modest dances, but the evening dances are more complicated, and the English dance is all about timing and style. The board decided that our community wants to encourage young dancers, so excluding them from the floor was not an option. We also wanted to respect the expectations of the folks who come to a festival for higher quality dancing than is had a regular weekly dances. We decided to create a "child friendly" line at the side of the hall, have the caller announce it occasionally, and put a big sign on the wall at the head of that line. Does anyone else out there have thoughts about this? Has the "child-friendly" line been tried? Did it meet with success? Does it wind up being empty? Are there other dances where children are excluded? Thanks in advance. Bob ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004) ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Organizers mailing list Organizers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers End of Organizers Digest, Vol 5, Issue 1 ****************************************

16 years, 4 months

[Organizers] Children at Contradance Festivals

by Bobfab＠aol.com

The surveys from the recent Rochester Contra/Swing Thanksgiving weekend had 2 individual comments regarding children making the dancing less enjoyable. The circumstances were regarding a child (5 years old) who was *forced* to dance by his parent, in the *evening* contra and afternoon English dance. The child is capable with modest dances, but the evening dances are more complicated, and the English dance is all about timing and style. The board decided that our community wants to encourage young dancers, so excluding them from the floor was not an option. We also wanted to respect the expectations of the folks who come to a festival for higher quality dancing than is had a regular weekly dances. We decided to create a "child friendly" line at the side of the hall, have the caller announce it occasionally, and put a big sign on the wall at the head of that line. Does anyone else out there have thoughts about this? Has the "child-friendly" line been tried? Did it meet with success? Does it wind up being empty? Are there other dances where children are excluded? Thanks in advance. Bob ************************************** See AOL's top rated recipes (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)

16 years, 4 months

[Organizers] Price

by Chris Weiler

Some of you may recognize this question from the PVCD (Pioneer Valley Contra Dance) list on Yahoo Groups. How do you balance the price you charge for the evening of dancing with attendance? Charge too much and you loose people. Charge too little and you have trouble paying the performers and the hall. Do you charge a sliding scale based on ability to pay? Or student/senior status? On the PVCD list, a student sent a message complaining about the rising prices at some dances and the lack of a student rate at others. She complained that she and her friends could not dance as much as they wanted to. The response ranged from "right on!" to "think about the musicians!" to "grow up and decide how to spend your money". (I'm paraphrasing.) Last month (after much deliberation) I raised the price of my Mill City dance from $7 to $8, but added a "young person" price of $5. It's too soon to know if it's had any affect or not. Last month I had a couple less people than usual, but due to the price increase, the amount that I had to pay the band was the same. The other dance in town is still charging $7 as well. When I took a survey in the sign-in book earlier in the summer, I asked if people were willing to pay the new price structure. I got about 10 yeas and 2 nays. I should also mention that I do not have a gate person and payment is on the honor system. However, the tally pretty closely matches my quick count from the microphone during the evening. Thanks in advance for your thoughts. Chris Weiler Goffstown, NH

16 years, 6 months

[Organizers] Price

by Gale T. Wood

Random Thoughts on Price: In the long run your dance will do OK with the price increase. I weighed in on the subject back in July so I won't rehash One thing that did happen, was that, I was accused of putting that extra dollar into my own pocket. Of course that did not happen. (Later, the accuser came to the dance on a sporadic basis, which was just as well) Many times I added money from my pocket to make sure The performers took home enough. On the other hand family and friends, could not believe that I was doing all this work and not getting any monetary gain from it. (I did not tell them that I would sometimes subsidize the dance) I did it for the dance! Running a contra dance is not (nor should it be a money making venture) Many smaller dances operate on a 'take of the door basis' (No guaranteed sum to performers) It's more of an exercise in community building. I enjoy the smaller 'non-professional' dances Compared to other forms of entertainment; $8.00 bucks is a cheap night out And the interactions with the community are well worth it. I wonder if other factors may be influencing dancers' decisions not to attend the Mill City dance? If attendance continues to decline I would suggest placing questionnaires on the tables a the dance, and gauge responses. Thanks Gale

16 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] Price

by Laur

Chris, I can tell you that in GR we have two dances. The first is backed by the folk arts society and so members get a discounted price, and I thought there was a student and senior discount. The bands and callers typically come from out of town and the hall (gym) is more expensive. The cost just went up to $8. The attendance has gone down significantly over the past year. I don't think it has much to do with price. I'm more involved with the second dance which I helped develop. We started with a $5 fee across the board. We also started with a lead fiddler at $50 a night and we paid the caller/ programmer/ mentor $50. We started with a $75 fee for the hall but its gone up. We raised the price to $6 to accommodate. The newer callers took over calling the dances as a group for a year without fees, it worked for both our benefits. The programmer for the evening, or the main caller (it still is a shared night), is paid $50 starting this past spring. The main band are students of the fiddler/ mando musicians, or musicians that like to play for a dance but rarely have an opportunity, or those that want to learn. They are unpaid. there is a music sheet they try to keep to, it develops as the musicians grow. (we also have an "icky" jam (slow jam) some of these same folks come to monthly.) An hour away in Kalamazoo the fee is $8 dollars, but as a member of that community or a neighboring community, you get a discount of $2. Students are $4 and families with more than three kids may get discounts. Advanced dances are $2 more across the board. An hour another way is the HOlland community. They have just raised their price to a flat $8 admission ages 5 and under: free $5:full-time students (13+ with current ID), seniors (60+) $20 family (all in the same household) volunteers $2 discount, other scholarships available Lansing has two dances. One is $7 for Looking Glass Members, $8 for the public, and $4 for students ( high school, college) with ID. Children under 15 are admitted for free! the other is - $8 / General Admission - $7 / Lansing Area Folksong Society Members - $4 / First-time dancers and Students. All the dances give discounts for volunteering at the desk or doing other tasks. For a while GR and maybe Holland gave $1 off to encourage treat sharing (we all have snacks at break), but we were able to build it back up as part of sharing community. I don't feel at liberty to talk about the costs associated with the dance but if anyone is interested in comparisons, I will ask the two other West MI dance communities, and the two in Lansing, if they would be willing to share that information. There are also dance communities in Goshen, IN and a small one in Remus, MI. I know that none of the dances really make money, as far as I know, as a general rule. Pretty much its at best break even or a little more, when there is excess it goes back into the pot to help with scholarships or a big band or caller or other events, or just to float the boat when things go dry. Does that help? Laurie --- organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net wrote: > Today's Topics: > > 1. Price (Chris Weiler) > 2. Re: Price (astro46(a)apricoto.com) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 02:09:18 -0400 > From: Chris Weiler <chris.weiler(a)weirdtable.org> > Subject: [Organizers] Price > To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net > Message-ID: <4714558E.20505(a)weirdtable.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; > format=flowed > > Some of you may recognize this question from the > PVCD (Pioneer Valley > Contra Dance) list on Yahoo Groups. > > How do you balance the price you charge for the > evening of dancing with > attendance? Charge too much and you loose people. > Charge too little and > you have trouble paying the performers and the hall. > Do you charge a > sliding scale based on ability to pay? Or > student/senior status? > > On the PVCD list, a student sent a message > complaining about the rising > prices at some dances and the lack of a student rate > at others. She > complained that she and her friends could not dance > as much as they > wanted to. The response ranged from "right on!" to > "think about the > musicians!" to "grow up and decide how to spend your > money". (I'm > paraphrasing.) > > Last month (after much deliberation) I raised the > price of my Mill City > dance from $7 to $8, but added a "young person" > price of $5. It's too > soon to know if it's had any affect or not. Last > month I had a couple > less people than usual, but due to the price > increase, the amount that I > had to pay the band was the same. The other dance in > town is still > charging $7 as well. When I took a survey in the > sign-in book earlier in > the summer, I asked if people were willing to pay > the new price > structure. I got about 10 yeas and 2 nays. I should > also mention that I > do not have a gate person and payment is on the > honor system. However, > the tally pretty closely matches my quick count from > the microphone > during the evening. > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. > > Chris Weiler > Goffstown, NH > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 09:56:39 -0500 > From: astro46(a)apricoto.com > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Price > To: "'A list for dance organizers'" > <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Message-ID: <000e01c81004$c291d570$5685fea9@jmr> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > chicago charges $6 per person. no discounts for > students, though young kids > (below 12, as i remember) don't pay. it has been > this rate for several > years. local musicians get $50 each with a band max > of $200, and caller > gets $50. no one else is paid. hall is $150. in the > past some evenings would > make money, some lose. there are occasional grants. > over the last 8 months > attendance as fallen, so now most evening lose > money. remains to be seen > what will happen with this situation. > > in chicago, considering the general cost of > entertainment (a beer is $3-$5), > there hasn't been much comment about the price. more > of an issue here is > transportation. more students might come, but don't > have cars to get to the > dance. taking combinations of trains and busses at > 11:30pm can be > discouraging. or living 1-1.5 hours drive away can > seem daunting after a > days work. > > jeffrey > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net > > [mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On > Behalf Of Chris Weiler > > Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2007 1:09 AM > > To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > Subject: [Organizers] Price > > > > Some of you may recognize this question from the > PVCD > > (Pioneer Valley Contra Dance) list on Yahoo > Groups. > > > > How do you balance the price you charge for the > evening of > > dancing with attendance? Charge too much and you > loose > > people. Charge too little and you have trouble > paying the > > performers and the hall. Do you charge a sliding > scale based > > on ability to pay? Or student/senior status? > > > > On the PVCD list, a student sent a message > complaining about > > the rising prices at some dances and the lack of a > student > > rate at others. She complained that she and her > friends could > > not dance as much as they wanted to. The response > ranged from > > "right on!" to "think about the musicians!" to > "grow up and > > decide how to spend your money". (I'm > > paraphrasing.) > > > > Last month (after much deliberation) I raised the > price of my > > Mill City dance from $7 to $8, but added a "young > person" > > price of $5. It's too soon to know if it's had any > affect or > > not. Last month I had a couple less people than > usual, but > > due to the price increase, the amount that I had > to pay the > > band was the same. The other dance in town is > still charging > > $7 as well. When I took a survey in the sign-in > book earlier > > in the summer, I asked if people were willing to > pay the new > > price structure. I got about 10 yeas and 2 nays. I > should > > also mention that I do not have a gate person and > payment is > > on the honor system. However, the tally pretty > closely > > matches my quick count from the microphone during > the evening. > > > > Thanks in advance for your thoughts. > > > > Chris Weiler > > Goffstown, NH > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Organizers mailing list > > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > > > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > === message truncated === ____________________________________________________________________________________ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. http://sims.yahoo.com/

16 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] How can we improve acoustics in a gym?

by astro46＠apricoto.com

this reply is quite a bit delayed. i just came across this list, and was looking through the archives. we dance in a gym. same lousy acoustics as most gyms. we tried numerous setups, with different numbers of speakers in different places, and different models of speakers. at one point we were trying the old standby arrangement: one speaker on each side of the stage with one speaker on each side of the hall, halfway down the hall, on delays. luckily, a person who had a lot of experience with sound for rock bands offered to help. he dumped the delays, took all 4 speakers and moved them into a clump, on the floor, partially off to the side. pointing diagonally down the hall. the difference in sound was impressive. we have modified this setup to 2 speakers (don't want to haul 4 speakers.) at the center of the hall, only to bring the sound source closer to the band which sits to one side of the stage in our case. when i am running sound i drop one speaker to just above head height and cut the volume on it (separate volume control for that speaker) to just hardly audible. the idea is that it is fill for the front. the other speaker is up around 8 feet. both are on tilters. i won't go into the theory about why this works. you may also, depending on the number of dancers/noise level, try just using one speaker,instead of two. tilters are a good idea. i don't know why this arrangement is not more widely used. it seems to be a vast improvement, in this sort of hall, over the traditional, speaker on each side arrangement. a further improvement can be made by moving the monitors to behind the musicians, set up at head height, right behind their ears. obviously you have to be very careful of sound volume with this arrangement. and have enough, small speakers to get one between pairs of musicians, on stands, assuming that they are sitting in row or small semi-circle. this arrangement allows the musicians to hear themselves with lower monitor volume, hence lower stage noise bleeding into the stage mics, causing more degradation of hall sound. frankly, even though it does make a small improvement in hall sound and monitor sound, we don't use this much because it seems to make the musicians uncomfortable. they generally opt to have the monitors in from of them. Jeffrey

16 years, 6 months

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Musicians