Musicians May 2019

musicians@lists.sharedweight.net

12 participants
6 discussions

by tom hinds

I’d like to know people’s opinion of using music while playing for a contra dance. Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by ear? Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds Sent from my iPad

4 years, 4 months

Re: [Musicians] Musicians Digest, Vol 25, Issue 6

by Martha Wild

Re: Dots and Jigs In one of our old time bands, we had a claw-hammer banjo player who insisted she couldn’t play jigs. One day the hammer dulcimer player suggested we play Ship in Full Sail, and launched into it. The rest of us obliged, with the banjo player looking at the chords since she didn’t know the tune. She did a wonderful job, and at the end I turned from the piano and said “I didn’t know you could play a jig!” She looked at me and said, astonished, “That was a jig?” After that we started playing jigs in the band. She said she’d noticed it felt sort of odd at first, but then she found some way to bum-teedle it that worked. So it can be done! Martha > On May 17, 2019, at 8:17 PM, musicians-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net wrote: > > Send Musicians mailing list submissions to > musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > musicians-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > musicians-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Musicians digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dots & Jigs (Thomas Verdot) > 2. Re: Dots & Jigs (Meg Dedolph) > 3. Re: Dots & Jigs (Thomas Verdot) > 4. Re: Dots & Jigs (Erik Hoffman) > 5. Re: sheet music Musicians Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5 (Jonathan Werk) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 19:14:58 -0500 > From: Thomas Verdot <tverdot(a)socket.net> > To: musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net > Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots & Jigs > Message-ID: <361e85b4-346b-d8b3-7210-16743bd6c951(a)socket.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > This is an aside from the conversation & I hesitate to start something > new that is bottomless, but since you mentioned it... > > Why have jigs been discarded over the decades by most "old time" > fiddlers? They were certainly used by many up to the early part of the > 20th century but in most places they have almost completely disappeared. > I love starting a dance with a jig & transitioning to to a reel or > hornpipe (both as a player & a dancer). > > Regards, Tom Verdot > > On 5/17/2019 6:37 PM, Meg Dedolph via Musicians wrote: > But I made an offhanded comment about how a particular dance >> worked well with jigs and the fiddler recalled a New England jig that he >> knew, but hadn't played for a while and decided to try it, but the >> guitarist was not comfortable backing jigs and ... the band did not >> sound as good on that tune as they did when they were playing old-time >> reels. >> Meg > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 19:21:15 -0500 > From: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph(a)gmail.com> > To: Thomas Verdot <tverdot(a)socket.net> > Cc: musicians <musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots & Jigs > Message-ID: > <CACs7sFVPH8COAdbF=zMmZEvxeG7BTgRAMYS4O8THa7Bvu0aSwA(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > you know, this is something I've wondered about as well. There's this > thread on the Fiddle Hangout that has people putting forth some ideas. > https://www.fiddlehangout.com/archive/22858 > A couple people in that thread mentioned that jigs are hard to play on > clawhammer banjo, and so maybe that has to do with why they are not really > part of the old-time repertoire? That seems like a good theory to me .... > meg > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 7:15 PM Thomas Verdot via Musicians < > musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> This is an aside from the conversation & I hesitate to start something >> new that is bottomless, but since you mentioned it... >> >> Why have jigs been discarded over the decades by most "old time" >> fiddlers? They were certainly used by many up to the early part of the >> 20th century but in most places they have almost completely disappeared. >> I love starting a dance with a jig & transitioning to to a reel or >> hornpipe (both as a player & a dancer). >> >> Regards, Tom Verdot >> >> On 5/17/2019 6:37 PM, Meg Dedolph via Musicians wrote: >> But I made an offhanded comment about how a particular dance >>> worked well with jigs and the fiddler recalled a New England jig that he >>> knew, but hadn't played for a while and decided to try it, but the >>> guitarist was not comfortable backing jigs and ... the band did not >>> sound as good on that tune as they did when they were playing old-time >>> reels. >>> Meg >> _______________________________________________ >> Musicians mailing list >> Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net >> >

5 years, 7 months

Re: [Musicians] sheet music Musicians Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5

by Jonathan Werk

Playing from sheet music won't make it harder to create excitement. But the sheet music cannot be a substitute for listening and responding to what's happening around you (in the music and elsewhere). If there's no listening and there's no motion or life or flexion or growth while playing, maybe it won't be exciting. In English Country Dance we almost always play from sheet music, but the good players won't stick to the page (that applies for both melody and chords). This could be a reflection of my personal style, but if I have sheet music of the melody, I can improvise much more striking harmonies or counter-melodies, which makes it even more exciting. I generally don't use sheet music for contra, and as a result, my improvised variations are more generic and more safe, but I still take every single chance I can to briefly wander away from the melody. I think the culprit is not listening and not adapting. Sheet music makes it possible for some people get away without listening or adapting. Taking the sheet music away might help them, or maybe they'd just stick to the tunes they have memorized and still not adapt. Jonathan Werk ________________________________ From: Musicians <musicians-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of musicians-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net <musicians-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: May 17, 2019 7:37 PM To: musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net Subject: Musicians Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5 Send Musicians mailing list submissions to musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to musicians-request(a)lists.sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at musicians-owner(a)lists.sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Musicians digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dots (Thomas Verdot) 2. Re: Dots (Martha Edwards) 3. Re: Dots (Meg Dedolph) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Jeff, While I understand your point & agree with the outcome that you suggest, I see a sheet of music more like a dashboard in a car - the gauges are there to glance at once in a while as need be but the important thing to watch is the road. For myself, the best example is the (thankfully) rare occasion when we are asked to do an unending grand march. We string 3-6 tunes together, in different keys, 6/8 & 4/4, etc to keep it interesting. I always scribble out the first couple of bars of each tune, in order, so that I don't blow a transition or start into the wrong tune in the agreed upon order. As for "playing by ear", do we really mean learning by ear? If that is the case it doesn't matter much to me. Whether I learn a tune from a friend, a recording or a piece of paper, by the time it gets used it is memorized & has entered into a state of constant flux. Finally, It is guys like you, the "rhythm section", who can most easily create excitement via rhythmic & chord moves. If that is solid & driving, the melody instruments can float on top & add the filigree. As proof, I can remember you with the Synchpaths going several times in a row through a tune with no melody at all & without a single dancer looking perplexed. Maybe all of us fiddle players should just pack up, forget about the tune & go out on the floor & dance. Regards, Tom Verdot On 5/17/2019 8:52 AM, Jeffrey Spero via Musicians wrote: > I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman. If you have the music in front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do so. And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing. > > The other Jeff > Culver City, CA > > >> On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians <musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a contra dance. Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by ear? Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds >> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 16:49:22 -0500 From: Martha Edwards <meedwards(a)westendweb.com> To: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph(a)gmail.com> Cc: Jeffrey Spero <jeff(a)syncopaths.com>, "A musician's discussion list" <musicians(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots Message-ID: <CAJjmMcMfcwipyGyED1kag=Vu_yyywAreaU4aJWeiyb14m1SjiA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Oh, dear. You got me. I have strong feelings about this, largely because, being lazy, I have never learned to play immediately by ear. But, having made my living sight-reading for 25 (now 50?) years, I find no barrier between me and music just because the dots are, well, lines and dots. The important things, however, that the non-dot players mention, ARE terribly important - that is 1. watching the dancers 2. listening to the other musicians 3. playing "musically" (by which I mean, knowing how to phrase, that is, figuring out where the music is coming from, and where it's going to) 4. listening to great players in order to learn "style"- that is, figuring out the character of each tune, and being able to vary that character if wanted or needed That said, the dots don't have to get in the way. An orchestra player, for instance, MUST watch the conductor while playing, and a symphony violinist MUST listen to all the other violinists and play *exactly *with them, and MUST listen to the whole orchestra and understand the character of the piece. That's totally like watching the dancers, listening to other musicians and learning to play with style. The problem comes when you first learn to play. If it's done right, you have a good, musical model to follow (sounds like playing by ear, doesn't it?) instead just playing one note after another, with no shape. The Suzuki method's brilliance, IMHO, was in providing the children with recordings of people playing Twinkle Twinkle (and all the other tunes) and getting their parents to play those recordings over and over for their kids even before they started learning to hold a violin. Then, when the kids start reading music (late in the process) they automatically played what they had heard (i.e., real music), and were able to figure out pretty quickly that those "dots" are not just little lego pieces, but large sculptures of something beautiful. There's more, of course - improvisation, understanding harmonic progression, etc. - and whether you read music or not influences those things, too, in different ways, some useful, some not-so-useful. And there's playing with others - if you give me your dots, we can start playing together right away, but if I have to memorize your repertoire first, we may have to wait a while. Don't get me wrong. I totally admire people who can learn immediately by ear, and if I had it to do over, would have learned how when I started playing for dances, but please don't blame boring playing on reading music. Instead, figure out how to play interestingly, no matter how you do it, with or without dots. M E On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:12 AM Meg Dedolph via Musicians < musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Agreed. When I'm learning chords to a tune, if I have them in front of me, > I tend to rely on the paper and play the same thing over and over. The > melody players in my band agree as well - we all try to learn things by ear > first, and use paper in a pinch. > Meg in Chicago > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:52 AM Jeffrey Spero via Musicians < > musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman. If you have the music in >> front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the >> page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians >> and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do >> so. And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to >> learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing. >> >> The other Jeff >> Culver City, CA >> >> >> > On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians < >> musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > >> > I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a >> contra dance. Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by >> ear? Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 18:37:08 -0500 From: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph(a)gmail.com> To: Martha Edwards <meedwards(a)westendweb.com> Cc: Jeffrey Spero <jeff(a)syncopaths.com>, "A musician's discussion list" <musicians(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots Message-ID: <CACs7sFWN5F8K-t2n0vDTNvhwLjPGcJP9_CksvVxWpX0OOnPvJA(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Well, having played dances with you, Martha, I think that nobody could reasonably accuse you of being too dependent on the dots. :) And in the spirit of confession, everyone in my band either has a music degree or has studied a lot of classical music before coming to traditional music, so there are some foundational educational elements we all share that are based on reading music. But in thinking about Tom's initial postings over the course of the day, boring music is boring music, whether it's written down or not. If his bandmates have their noses stuck in the music at the expense of listening to the other players, that might be a problem. It also could be that they're not playing good tunes for dances. It's hard to tell what would make a band "more interesting" to dance to without hearing. I think familiarity with repertoire makes a big difference. I called with a band recently that mostly plays old-time music, and they sound great. But I made an offhanded comment about how a particular dance worked well with jigs and the fiddler recalled a New England jig that he knew, but hadn't played for a while and decided to try it, but the guitarist was not comfortable backing jigs and ... the band did not sound as good on that tune as they did when they were playing old-time reels. Meg On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:49 PM Martha Edwards <meedwards(a)westendweb.com> wrote: > Oh, dear. You got me. I have strong feelings about this, largely because, > being lazy, I have never learned to play immediately by ear. But, having > made my living sight-reading for 25 (now 50?) years, I find no barrier > between me and music just because the dots are, well, lines and dots. > > The important things, however, that the non-dot players mention, ARE > terribly important - that is > > 1. watching the dancers > 2. listening to the other musicians > 3. playing "musically" (by which I mean, knowing how to phrase, that > is, figuring out where the music is coming from, and where it's going to) > 4. listening to great players in order to learn "style"- that is, > figuring out the character of each tune, and being able to vary that > character if wanted or needed > > That said, the dots don't have to get in the way. An orchestra player, for > instance, MUST watch the conductor while playing, and a symphony violinist > MUST listen to all the other violinists and play *exactly *with them, and > MUST listen to the whole orchestra and understand the character of the > piece. That's totally like watching the dancers, listening to other > musicians and learning to play with style. > > The problem comes when you first learn to play. If it's done right, you > have a good, musical model to follow (sounds like playing by ear, doesn't > it?) instead just playing one note after another, with no shape. The Suzuki > method's brilliance, IMHO, was in providing the children with recordings of > people playing Twinkle Twinkle (and all the other tunes) and getting their > parents to play those recordings over and over for their kids even before > they started learning to hold a violin. Then, when the kids start reading > music (late in the process) they automatically played what they had heard > (i.e., real music), and were able to figure out pretty quickly that those > "dots" are not just little lego pieces, but large sculptures of something > beautiful. > > There's more, of course - improvisation, understanding harmonic > progression, etc. - and whether you read music or not influences those > things, too, in different ways, some useful, some not-so-useful. > > And there's playing with others - if you give me your dots, we can start > playing together right away, but if I have to memorize your repertoire > first, we may have to wait a while. > > Don't get me wrong. I totally admire people who can learn immediately by > ear, and if I had it to do over, would have learned how when I started > playing for dances, but please don't blame boring playing on reading > music. Instead, figure out how to play interestingly, no matter how you do > it, with or without dots. > > M > E > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:12 AM Meg Dedolph via Musicians < > musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> Agreed. When I'm learning chords to a tune, if I have them in front of >> me, I tend to rely on the paper and play the same thing over and over. The >> melody players in my band agree as well - we all try to learn things by ear >> first, and use paper in a pinch. >> Meg in Chicago >> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:52 AM Jeffrey Spero via Musicians < >> musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman. If you have the music in >>> front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the >>> page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians >>> and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do >>> so. And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to >>> learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing. >>> >>> The other Jeff >>> Culver City, CA >>> >>> >>> > On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians < >>> musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a >>> contra dance. Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by >>> ear? Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds >>> >

5 years, 7 months

Re: [Musicians] Dots

by tom hinds

> Thank you all for sharing! You’ve been very helpful. > > As a caller I’ve always known that callers who are staring at a card and not looking at the dancers are not in tune with the dancers I.e. so much information coming from the dancers is lost. > > I’ve always assumed the same is true of musicians. > > The reason I’m asking is I’m playing percussion in a band with very good players. They play good music but it could be more exciting. Their fear is preventing them from going dotless. > > Reading your responses have made me think more about this and I’ve come up with the following: > > Playing exciting contra music requires; > > Mastery of the instrument. > Willingness to take risks > Ability to multitask: listen to others, the caller, watch the dancers. > Know the ins and outs of the activity (rules, norms, traditions) > > I’m sure there’s more............. > > Tom > > Sent from my iPad > >> On May 17, 2019, at 2:49 PM, bschmid55 <bschmid55(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> That is such an evocative question and I'd love to hear how that came to your mind. I agree with the jeffs and meg and others... the ability to watch the dancers is an asset... and having spent lots of time with a particular tune so the rhythm is a part of you i think leads to knowing how to manipulate a dance that you're watching. >> Barb >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Jeff Kaufman via Musicians <musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >> Date: 5/17/19 8:34 AM (GMT-05:00) >> To: tom hinds <tomthecaller(a)yahoo.com> >> Cc: musicians(a)sharedweight.net >> Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots >> >> I think learning the music well enough that you don't need to see it >> while playing is well worth it: once you're playing from memory you >> have much more ability to vary what you're doing in the moment in >> response to the feel of the hall and what the dancers are doing. >> (This goes for written chords as well as written notes.) >> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 6:53 AM tom hinds via Musicians >> <musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > >> > I’d like to know people’s opinion of using music while playing for a contra dance. Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by ear? Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds >> > >> > Sent from my iPad >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Musicians mailing list >> > Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Musicians mailing list >> Musicians(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/musicians-sharedweight.net

5 years, 7 months

Shared Weight - looking for a web designer

by Seth Seeger

Dear Shared Weight musicians, Do you have experience in WordPress design? Do you love Shared Weight? Shared Weight is looking for a volunteer to help us on a well-defined website development task. Essentially, we need someone to create a wordpress site that will serve as a new website for: https://www.sharedweight.net Here are a few details: --> There would be a few additional pages to what is on the current site, but as you can see, our needs are relatively basic. (Template/model pages for each of the lists, FAQ for the whole site, etc) --> The Shared Weight team would like to have some say into the look of the site but we also welcome your ideas. --> You will not need to be responsible for maintaining the site - simply creating the templates will be a great help! We will provide all the content for the site and can even populate the content once you have created the template if you don’t want to do the initial upload of text. Please email Emily at emily(a)cdss.org if you are interested in helping us on this project. ***An exciting heads up about Shared Weight*** The new wordpress site is part of an exciting new initiative for Shared Weight. Seth Seeger and Chris Weiler (Shared Weight founders) have partnered with Ridge Kennedy (Trad Dance caller listserv), Alan Winston (English Country dance listserv), and Weogo Reed (Contra Sound Forum) to collectively update and enhance the lists. All six lists will be hosted on an upgraded Shared Weight software platform with the new website and better mailing list software. We will also be doing lots more promotion of these lists. Emily (CDSS Consultant) is helping to coordinate some of this work and so am the contact for finding a wordpress volunteer. Watch for more updates from the Shared Weight team over the next new months! Seth & Chris

5 years, 7 months

CDSS's May Shop Talk + a survey for open band leaders!

by Emily Addison

Hello Shared Weight musicians, I hope this email finds you well! I wanted to share the May issue of CDSS's Shop Talk as I know many of you are also organizers and even if you are not, you may be interested in some of the topics in this issue. In particular, I wanted to highlight a ***SURVEY FOR OPEN BAND LEADERS*** Following up on CDSS's webchat on open bands, we are creating a section on our website for open band resources. We'd love to hear about the work you do and also link to your projects and resources. Please fill out the survey by July 1st: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfmFgF-4HBE50wgyLqAq6jrw2753_mPkHN… Here's a link to the May Shop Talk: https://conta.cc/2HlZOXA Shop Talk is free and you can sign up here to receive it: https://www.cdss.org/resources/how-to/organizers#shop-talk With thanks! Emily Addison *In the May issue:* - Heads up regarding an article in the upcoming June CDSS News which outlines *how to easily plan organizer discussions*. - Announcing the *CDSS Web Chat: Building Safe Dance Communities* which is happening on July 11th - *CDSS Scholarships* still available for camp sessions! - News about an *exciting collaboration among organizer, caller, and musician listservs* - A *survey for Open Bands* to support resource development. - Heads up regarding the upcoming *CDSS Group Affiliates survey* - A *call for volunteers *interested in developing organizer resources. - *Join CDSS as an affiliate and individual member to help make resources and supports like these possible!* <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

5 years, 7 months

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Musicians May 2019