Musicians May 2014

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30 participants
28 discussions

[Organizers] Tapping into non-contra talent for new series

by Chrissy Fowler via Organizers

Anyone have experience with tapping into non-contra talent? (Especially with regard to a new series.) For example, if there was plenty of Scottish/ECD/Old time music talent in an area, but no current tradition of contra dancing, how could one develop those musicians' interest and skills in playing for contra dances? - 2014 NEFFA session ** Please RETAIN SUBJECT LINE in all replies! Especially IF YOU GET THE DIGEST! ***

10 years, 5 months

[Organizers] Breaking even + follow up question

by Emily Addison

Hi Chrissy and others! Chrissy - I really liked how you phrased the question re 'Breaking Even'. My questions from last week on sound and membership relate to this issue. Ottawa was in the black for quite a while but then we wanted to up what we paid talent and sound and our numbers didn't follow as we were expected (we had been seeing a trend). Thus, back to strategizing on breaking even. :) Re breaking even, one strategy we have been using in Ottawa is membership. (http://www.ottawacontra.ca/view/?membership). Our main motivation was to create a sense of belonging/ownership over the dance and get our regulars really committed so they would come as often as possible and spread the word. That's worked nicely but what's happened over the last 5yrs is that we've upped the number of dances that they can get discounts at but we haven't upped the membership. So we're looking at that. Like Mac, we've been looking at our various dance programs/series together. The interesting thing is that when we started both a Family Dance and a Community Talent Dance series two years ago, we thought that they would be 'money losers' and that our Saturday night dances would help fund those series. However, it's been the Saturday night dances that haven't been financially viable. Thus, it's great to hear how NYC works its funds with the regular dances not breaking even - thanks for sharing David. ***ONE FOLLOW UP QUESTION*** Last week, someone on the list said that one strategy to deal with a dance series that was loosing money would be to let the community know and ask the community to be part of the solution. I brought this idea up with one of my fellow organizers here in Ottawa and they were pretty adamant that we shouldn't tell our dancers that we've been in the red the last two years. We do have an annual AGM that is open to anyone who dances and they can learn about our finances there.... this person just didn't want to publicize the information widely. What are folks' general thoughts about letting the dance community know and calling for support (in terms of getting more dancers out; paying more for membership; etc)???? Emily

10 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 12

by ddkush

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net </div><div>Date:05/17/2014 12:00 PM (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net </div><div>Subject: Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 12 </div><div> </div>Send Organizers mailing list submissions to organizers(a)sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at organizers-owner(a)sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Organizers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Breaking even (Chrissy Fowler) 2. Re: Breaking even (Mac Mckeever) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 10:02:16 -0400 From: Chrissy Fowler <ktaadn_me(a)hotmail.com> To: "organizers(a)sharedweight.net" <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: [Organizers] Breaking even Message-ID: <BLU184-W15B954A156D1DF3217005A8D300(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" How does a dance series BREAK EVEN? (Or, better yet, run in the black!) WHAT successful strategies do you use as dance organizers? And HOW do you make those specific strategies happen? (For example, if "generate substantial income from admission" is a specific strategy, how do you do that? Do you get a ton of dancers, is your admission rate high, other?) Cheers, Chrissy Fowler [This is another one of the NEFFA topics, and it's closely related to a recent thread. While many terrific and relevant ideas have come up in response to Emily A's (Ottawa) queries, I thought I'd post anyhow. -CF] - 2014 NEFFA session ** Please RETAIN SUBJECT LINE in all replies! Especially IF YOU GET THE DIGEST! *** ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 17 May 2014 07:29:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Mac Mckeever <macmck(a)ymail.com> To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Organizers] Breaking even Message-ID: <1400336980.44403.YahooMailNeo(a)web165005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 In St Louis - we operate in the black nearly every year (unless we make a big equipment purchase or? something like that) We view all of our dance programs together.? Some of the newer once are still finding their audience and lose money - others come out a little ahead most weeks.? Each year, if we don't lose too much, a local arts grant makes up the difference. We have avoided the expense of bringing in a big name band for our dance weekends and use our best local bands instead.? This coming weekend we will have 10 local / regional bands - with dancing Fri, Sat and Sunday from 8pm until about 3am and still pay less than flying in a out of region band who would play far fewer hours. As a result - these weekends contribute a nice profit.? Other dancer donations and corporate grants are also received.? We look for special opportunities to allow the dancers to donate to support us.? A couple years ago there was the suggestion to purchase an AED for the hall.? We received over $2500 from the community which allowed us to make the purchase and have some left over for the ongoing maintenance costs.? It also allowed us to have a group get together for AED/first aid training with the local fire department. That give us a nice cash cushion and we invest part of it to slowly build it up I hope that helps Mac McKeever ________________________________ From: Chrissy Fowler <ktaadn_me(a)hotmail.com> To: "organizers(a)sharedweight.net" <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Saturday, May 17, 2014 9:02 AM Subject: [Organizers] Breaking even How does a dance series BREAK EVEN?? (Or, better yet, run in the black!) WHAT successful strategies do you use as dance organizers? And HOW do you make those specific strategies happen? (For example, if "generate substantial income from admission" is a specific strategy, how do you do that?? Do you get a ton of dancers, is your admission rate high, other?) Cheers, Chrissy Fowler [This is another one of the NEFFA topics, and it's closely related to a recent thread.? While many terrific and relevant ideas have come up in response to Emily A's (Ottawa) queries, I thought I'd post anyhow. -CF] - 2014 NEFFA session ** Please RETAIN SUBJECT LINE in all replies!? Especially IF YOU GET THE DIGEST! *** ??? ??? ??? ? ??? ??? ? _______________________________________________ Organizers mailing list Organizers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Organizers mailing list Organizers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers End of Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 12 ******************************************

10 years, 6 months

[Organizers] Breaking even

by Chrissy Fowler

How does a dance series BREAK EVEN? (Or, better yet, run in the black!) WHAT successful strategies do you use as dance organizers? And HOW do you make those specific strategies happen? (For example, if "generate substantial income from admission" is a specific strategy, how do you do that? Do you get a ton of dancers, is your admission rate high, other?) Cheers, Chrissy Fowler [This is another one of the NEFFA topics, and it's closely related to a recent thread. While many terrific and relevant ideas have come up in response to Emily A's (Ottawa) queries, I thought I'd post anyhow. -CF] - 2014 NEFFA session ** Please RETAIN SUBJECT LINE in all replies! Especially IF YOU GET THE DIGEST! ***

10 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 10

by Craig Meltzner

North Bay Country Dance Society (NBCDS), a CDSS affiliate in Northern CA (Sonoma and Marin Counties), generally pays our sound tech for our contra dances a full "talent" share of the dance proceeds, i.e., the same share that the caller and each band member receives. We have a minimum share of $75 per person, except for bands with more than 3 members. Our dances with local talent generally breakeven. When traveling bands come through, pay-out may be as high as $150+ per person. Our admission price is $10 NBCDS/CDSS-affiliate members, $12 general admission, $7 student/limited finances. Our sound tech often provides the equipment though NBCDS has our own equipment. Average attendance at our venues is 50 - 100 dancers except for special dances. The exception to all of the above is one small dance venue where contra dance attendance is lower, around 30 dancers. We still pay the musicians and callers $75 each but we pay the sound tech $40. Craig Meltzner -----Original Message----- From: organizers-bounces(a)sharedweight.net [mailto:organizers-bounces@sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2014 9:00 AM To: organizers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 10 Send Organizers mailing list submissions to organizers(a)sharedweight.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to organizers-request(a)sharedweight.net You can reach the person managing the list at organizers-owner(a)sharedweight.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Organizers digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 (Laur) 2. Re: technical follow up re sound costs/admission/membership (Dave Casserly) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 19:51:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com> To: "organizers(a)sharedweight.net" <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Organizers] Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7 Message-ID: <1400122293.97646.YahooMailIosMobile(a)web120904.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Across the line ( in west mi ) we pay sound with equipment 50$. Those that attend sound are typically free that night with pass to next dance. <a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a> ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 23:24:41 -0400 From: Dave Casserly <david.j.casserly(a)gmail.com> To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: Re: [Organizers] technical follow up re sound costs/admission/membership Message-ID: <CAJkiw7zi9p3JjB0tDdkirN4PvaWU49hUdR36FWas0SYxSHGP4Q(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I would consider our dance to be suburban. It's in Glen Echo Park, about 8 miles from downtown DC. We don't keep average attendance numbers, but we get a pretty broad range. Our hall is enormous, and accommodates up to 500 on special occasions, but we don't get that many on Sunday nights. I'd say our numbers range from around 70 to maybe 300 when a big-name band comes through. I believe that our sound guys do not provide their own gear. On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Emily Addison <emilyladdison(a)gmail.com>wrote: > Wow... some GREAT input from so many... thanks for the advice! > > I'll write a separate email about the various specific suggestions. > > However, I'm now attempting to summarize the information people have > provided and I'd like to fill in holes based upon some feedback a few > of you mentioned. > > RE SOUND: *Stacy, Jack, Dave, Merle, Walker, Jeff, Lisa, and > Mac*...Can you email me with: > -whether your dance is urban/rural/in-between -average attendance of > your dance -if you didn't specify if the sound guy provides his own > gear or not, that would be great too > > RE ADMISSION... *Alan and Walker*, can you specify whether those > organization you listed are -whether your dance is > urban/rural/in-between -average attendance at those dances > > *If others have information that would be helpful*, please do share if > you like. :) Much thanks! > Emily > PS - I've attached my draft tables as a PDF... I hope it comes through! > > _______________________________________________ > Organizers mailing list > Organizers(a)sharedweight.net > http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers > > -- David Casserly (cell) 781 258-2761 ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Organizers mailing list Organizers(a)sharedweight.net http://www.sharedweight.net/mailman/listinfo/organizers End of Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 10 ******************************************

10 years, 6 months

[Organizers] technical follow up re sound costs/admission/membership

by Emily Addison

Wow... some GREAT input from so many... thanks for the advice! I'll write a separate email about the various specific suggestions. However, I'm now attempting to summarize the information people have provided and I'd like to fill in holes based upon some feedback a few of you mentioned. RE SOUND: *Stacy, Jack, Dave, Merle, Walker, Jeff, Lisa, and Mac*...Can you email me with: -whether your dance is urban/rural/in-between -average attendance of your dance -if you didn't specify if the sound guy provides his own gear or not, that would be great too RE ADMISSION... *Alan and Walker*, can you specify whether those organization you listed are -whether your dance is urban/rural/in-between -average attendance at those dances *If others have information that would be helpful*, please do share if you like. :) Much thanks! Emily PS - I've attached my draft tables as a PDF... I hope it comes through!

10 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] Organizers Digest, Vol 49, Issue 7

by Laur

Across the line ( in west mi ) we pay sound with equipment 50$. Those that attend sound are typically free that night with pass to next dance. <a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com?.src=iOS"><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone</a>

10 years, 6 months

Re: [Organizers] Ideas re sources of revenue for dance series

by John W Gintell

> Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 22:15:04 -0400 > From: Donald Perley <donperley(a)gmail.com> > To: A list for dance organizers <organizers(a)sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Organizers] Ideas re sources of revenue for dance series > Message-ID: > <CAMKNU+-xqvuZBVWHS3wFut+xk2EUKmxgiLuYJQritwUmkcdmhg(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > WHen our series was losing money we told our dancers and put a > donation hat at the front table. Donations were typically the $2 > change on the $8 entrance fee, which helped. What really helped, > though, was telling our dancers that we'd rather they bring more > friends to the dance than kick something into the hat. Our typical > count went from ~60 to ~100. Our organization, Boston Gender Free Contra Dance, does three things 1. We have a "live music fund" bucket on the entrance table and pass it around during announcements before the break at every dance. 2. We have Sponsorship program where a person or group of people can donate money to pay for the band - used for special occasions. Since we are affiliated with Lavender Country and Folk Dancers (LCFD) which is Tax Exempt, sponsors can donate their money to LCFD to get a tax deduction. LCFD then makes a grant to the dance. 3. Several people have donated money to LCFD to be used for a LiveMusic Match fund. Several times a year we have a special Match Night where donations to the bucket get doubled or tripled. Our donations go way up as a result.

10 years, 6 months

[Organizers] Re specific comments on series budgets

by Emily Addison

Hi again fellow organizers :) I just wrote an email specifically on the technical numbers folks sent in. (MUCH THANKS!) It's pending approval as I attached a PDF summarizing the feedback provided and it exceeded the size of email approved automatically by the list... ... anyway, watch for that. :) However, I wanted to respond to additional comments that were provided... LOTS of great points! *Donald* I LOVED your suggestion about asking dancers to bring friends instead of additional donation (but having the option). We regularly ask dancers to bring new folks but haven't connected that to actually needing more people to break even. Getting the word out that we actually need their help sounds as though it can prompt action. :) *Walker* REALLY good to know that you think our prices seem steep and super helpful to know them in comparison with other larger dances. I know Montreal charges 14/12$ but they've got a smaller attendance and are the only org that I've seen that high. Re reducing costs --- we are definitely looking at that. As per my comments to Peter (below), we don't feel we can switch halls... ... this is pretty good rate for Ottawa and is in a key location with good acoustics etc making it ideal. And cutting the costs of bands/callers would be really hard because yes, we want to get top notch talent and we already feel that they are getting paid little. That's why I was curious about how much communities pay for sound. We're spending a fair bit there and REALLLLY like our sound guy/not having to deal with equipment but it seemed like one possible place to discuss saving if we can't get our revenue up (I'm still quite hopeful there). *Peter* I do really like your idea re reaching out the community and we were going to survey our dancers this summer so including our current situation in the context of the survey would be good. The notion of having dancers 'pick up the slack' is great! Re our venue... we did a MAJOR hunt about five years ago when we knew we needed to move. We're really happy with our current location for a number of reasons and the price is all right. The challenge is that it's owned by the city of ottawa and so there's absolutely no negotiation on the pricing. But there are many reasons that make this the best location for us (... ... and Ottawa is majorly lacking in dance floors/venues so we'er lucky to have it!). And we've got a community dance on Tuesday nights where callers/talent play for free, working up their skills. (I lead the community band that anyone can join to learn contra playing skills... weekly practices and then playing monthly on the 4th Tuesday.) We could move those to some Saturday gigs but we really like guaranteeing the quality of talent on the Saturdays + feel that anyone playing our 'bigger' dances should be paid (including the local talent who are working on their skills and occasionally play/call there). *Mark* I totally agree about having a popular & profitable series being the easiest way! We were there three years ago but then raised what we were paying bands/callers/sound in order to support them more and don't want to cut back again there. It's a good point about being willing to ask/having the courage to reach out for support. Our membership deal has been great for that as it's meant buy in from the community and a pool of money we can count on. But we haven't increased our membership in 5yrs even though we now organize about 10 more events where members can get discounts. I think we're nervous about making the membership an 'ask' again but you're comments make me feel more confident about that. And interesting about higher levels of donorship. It's not something we've discussed as a group as I think we'd like our series to be self-sustaining but it is something that I've added to our list of possible revenue sources to consider. I know another dance community who was recently struggling and through a simple ask, they got oodles of support from individuals who wanted to see the series continue. Your suggestion is great here. When you mention the raising of funds through a weekend like NEFFA, is that specific to the food or do the assets of the weekend as a whole go back to various dance series??? And yes, your point about grants ending making me nervous about using them as well! :) Emily

10 years, 6 months

[Organizers] Ideas re sources of revenue for dance series

by Emily Addison

Hi Dance Organizers! I'm pulling together ideas on budget for our dance committee meeting in June. Our situation is this .... ...We've got a really vibrant dance community where we get 100+ dancers at each evening dance (we're an urban dance and have a mix of strong local talent as well as touring/national bands). However, with various expenses, the last two years have been a bit tough on us financially. *I'm wondering if you'd share your entrance fee rates and thoughts on how high these can/should go before issues (e.g., accessibility, lower turnout) arise? * *ANNNND if you have any additional brilliant ways of raising funds, that would be great too! I've listed some options below but for sum (e.g., fundraisers), we're looking for neat ideas.* With thanks! Emily Addison Ottawa, ON *Here's our fee structure:* - Membership is 25$ for full year, 15$ in January... This gives you discounts on most of our dances (about 28 a year) - Saturday night dance: 12$ regular, 10$ members/students, free 16 and under - Saturday afternoon workshop: 8$ regular, 7$ members/students .... also a discount to do both afternoon/evening (17$ regular, 15$ members&students) - Tuesday community talent dances: 7$/5$ - Family dances: $10 adult, free for kids It's our Saturday dances with hired bands/callers, paid sound, and a more expensive hall that are loosing money. Our community talent and family dances are breaking even. *Other possible forms of revenue include:* - Attracting and retaining more dancers - Grants - Fundraisers (what have others done?) - Promoting larger donations OR doing something like a donation/tip jar - Selling food, tshirts etc - Avoiding booking dances on holidays/big events as #s may be down - Other????

10 years, 6 months

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Musicians May 2014