9 Sep
2015
9 Sep
'15
8:53 p.m.
Here's the thing:
- There really is harassment, creepy behavior, etc.
- There really are cases where third parties see those things and
they aren't actually there in the eyes of the perceived victim
So organizers have to keep their eyes open and review things on a case
by case basis. Because one organizer has seen unjustified third-party
charges of harrassment doesn't mean this particular case is one of
those; because another organizer can multiply real examples of
unacceptable behavior doesn't mean this particular case is one of them.
It doesn't, in my view, help discourse to tell people who have real
experiences on one side or the other of that that they're not taking the
situation seriously enough / taking the situation too seriously and,
implicitly, that your experiences trump their experiences.
-- Alan
On 9/9/15 1:44 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote:
Harassment is real. It's widespread, and pretending it isn't hurts
people and keeps people away from our dances.
Things I have personally witnessed, and when subsequently asked the
dancer whether anything was unusual, they confirmed:
One dancer has a habit of grabbing hip *just* at the butt-line. One of
the young women was 15.
Another dancer intentionally threw a quarter on the ground in front of
a young 20-something lady. I watched in horror as she bent over and
picked it up as he leered.
One dancer did a frontways dip to a 20-something lady which included
torso-torso frontal contact. No permission was asked.
Another dancer came in drunk / high and was dancing wild.
Another dancer has a habit of intentionally shoulder-checked men who
have called him out on his creepiness.
Another dancer was swinging way too close. Turns out he was following
a minor around and asking completely inappropriate questions.
And I have more of these stories. Seriously, the list goes on and on.
I've been dancing far fewer years than many on this list, and danced
at many different dances - this isn't limited to one dance community.
And these are just the stories I've verified.
So are all of your eyes closed?
So... Yeah. I absolutely think that we should keep our eyes open. I
think we should calmly and privately inquire when we think we see
inappropriate behavior. We should be absolutely receptive that
sometimes behavior is seen and a victim is too afraid to step forward
on their own.
And we should stop with such flippant and potentially dangerous
phrases like "crying wolf" or that people need to just grow up and
"act like an adult" because bad stuff happens.
On Sep 9, 2015 4:04 PM, "Martha Wild via Callers"
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Yeah, we had a guy at one dance complain bitterly that other men
were being creepy with his girlfriend. But when I spoke with her,
she said there was no problem, they'd done no more than gypsy and
swing her and occasionally speak to her with advice on the dance.
The more I spoke with the two of them the more I wanted to yell at
the woman - run fast, very fast, as far away from this control
freak as you can!!!! But I suppose it was not my place to warn her
right in front of him. No surprise they never returned.
Martha
On Sep 9, 2015, at 7:39 AM, Lindsay Morris via Callers wrote:
Appreciate that. Don't think the
"where there's smoke there's
fire" issue applies here, though. It would if there were several
*different* women complaining about one man...
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900 <tel:1-859-539-9900>
lindsay(a)tsmworks.com <mailto:lindsay@tsmworks.com>
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ron Blechner
<contraron(a)gmail.com <mailto:contraron@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Lindsay,
I realize this is a tricky topic, so apologies in advance if
my brevity comes off as bruskness.
These two suggestions work for Amherst Contra.
As a proxy complaint comes in, a board member would seek out
the source. Anonymous complaints are permitted, and a high
level of ensuring that we ask open-ended questions, and not
leading questions.
We also wear board member buttons at dances and make regular
announcements about us being available for any reason.
Usually 4-7 members of our board attend any dance.
You might speak privately to Will Loving, our lead organizer,
if you're interested in more specifics.
I would also caution about making such definitive statements
as "just an accusation". In my experience, where there's
smoke, there's fire. For every accusation, there's five
people who are too uncomfortable to speak up.
That said, I have seen the success of proactive addressing of
issues. The biggest benefit is simple:
Address it early when it's small, and not a huge deal. Maybe
it's a simple misunderstanding. Maybe the person needed a
clear boundary drawn. But wait until there's a pile of
complaints, and you've already lost dancers and the
resolution will need to be more severe for the offender.
Best regards,
Ron Blechner
On Sep 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers"
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Chris Weiler's Positive Solutions
<http://www.puttinonthedance.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Positive-Solutions-Chris.pdf>
on dealing with problem dancers, and the CDU Policy
<http://www.puttinonthedance.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/09-12-16-CDU-policy-on-inappropriate-behavior.pdf>
are thoughtful and useful documents.
We have a different problem here.
One woman often complains to board members about men she
sees as creepers or sexual predators. She reports their
misbehavior on behalf of their victims. The victims don't
initiate these reports.*
Many others *don't* see these men as creepy or
inappropriate. Recently one of the "victims" clarified
that her discomfort with the man was a year ago and she'd
long ago dealt with it to her satisfaction. The man in
question had heard only rumors that some nameless woman
was unhappy about some nameless thing he'd done.
This woman also publicly asked that young women who feel
harassed should talk to her about it. We feel that's the
Board's job, not hers.
It seems that this woman is fishing for - or even
inventing - "naughty-dancer" problems.
When a married man gets accused of being a sexual
predator, his wife has to wonder if it's true. This adds
to any marital tensions they may already have. So, while
this woman is not actually punching anybody in the face,
it seems to me that she's committing violence.
How should we handle this?
* I think we need a "No proxy complaints" policy -
i.e., the victim has to speak up (and then our
process will usually fix simple miscommunication issues).
* We need to clearly identify board members, so genuine
victims know who to talk to.
But does anybody have other ideas about preventing one
person's issues from poisoning the atmosphere of a
mostly friendly dance?
____
* I know, victims often have a hard time stepping up and
complaining, so advocacy may be a good thing. But that's
a different discussion. In these situations, there's no
victim; there's no predator; there's just an accusation
with little to back it up.
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Alan Winston via Callers