13 Apr
2017
13 Apr
'17
6:09 p.m.
Hi All,
Ladies' Chain to Allemande Left is actually the original version of
the Ladies' Chain! I believe that the Courtesy Turn was added sometime late
in the 19th century, or maybe in the first half of the 20th century.
Prior to that the "Chaine des Dames" was always danced as Ladies
Pull By Right, Allemande Left the Man You Meet - and always there and back
again.
It occurs in countless dances over the last few hundred years, going
back to the 18th century quadrilles and probably earlier.
The Ladies' Chains in Chestnut contras were probably danced that way
originally.
Of course If the man maintains that Allemande position he will end
up facing the wrong way in most dances. So he will usually have to make a
quick turn to his left at the end of the Allemande. I find it quite hard to
persuade the men NOT to touch the lady with their right arm. Many ECD
dances contain this move and I understand that some American ladies hate it
when the man guides her with his right arm.
So, between the two extremes of the man ending up facing out, and
the man putting his right arm around the lady, you have the compromise of
starting the Allemande normally, but then the man turning towards the lady
as the move ends - this is known in some circles as a Polite Turn.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
13 Apr
13 Apr
6:57 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Ladies Chain to Allemande Left (Was: Does this dance already exist?)
On Apr 13, 2017, at 3:09 PM, John Sweeney wrote:
Ladies' Chain to Allemande Left is actually the
original version of
the Ladies' Chain! I believe that the Courtesy Turn was added sometime late
in the 19th century, or maybe in the first half of the 20th century.
At a workshop I attended a number of years ago, Colin Hume pointed
out that the dance "Parson's Farewell", published in the first
edition of Playford's _The English Dancing Master_ (1651) includes
an action that is plausibly an early version of the Ladies' Chain.
You can see it about 0:49-0:58 in this videa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3X4wpEIOZIM
and you can read the description (which has been variously interpreted,
as you can see if you look for other videos of the dance) here:
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/playford_1651/013small.html
I'd be interested in knowing of the earliest sources anyone can find
with a description or illustration of the modern "courtesy turn".
That would include any reference in which a dancing master admonished
men against putting their hands on the ladies' backs during a "Ladies'
Chain" or a "Right and Left". I figure that a dancing master wouldn't
publish an admonishment against such a thing unless he has reason to
think some people were doing it.
--Jim
7:44 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Ladies Chain to Allemande Left (Was: Does this dance already exist?)
This is interesting; because I have gone to walking/teaching Ladies Chain without turning
as a couple in just this way...just ladies give right and left to the gent. The
gents-side turn her around keeping the lady's-side on your right to stay, or over and
back the same way.
Walked this last Saturday at a Vermont Grange where the floor was part One Night Stand
dancers and part seasoned traditional"eastern" singing call dancers. No
problems.
Bob LivingstonMiddletown, CT
From: John Sweeney via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Ladies Chain to Allemande Left (Was: Does this dance already
exist?)
Hi All,
Ladies' Chain to Allemande Left is actually the original version of
the Ladies' Chain! I believe that the Courtesy Turn was added sometime late
in the 19th century, or maybe in the first half of the 20th century.
Prior to that the "Chaine des Dames" was always danced as Ladies
Pull By Right, Allemande Left the Man You Meet - and always there and back
again.
It occurs in countless dances over the last few hundred years, going
back to the 18th century quadrilles and probably earlier.
The Ladies' Chains in Chestnut contras were probably danced that way
originally.
Of course If the man maintains that Allemande position he will end
up facing the wrong way in most dances. So he will usually have to make a
quick turn to his left at the end of the Allemande. I find it quite hard to
persuade the men NOT to touch the lady with their right arm. Many ECD
dances contain this move and I understand that some American ladies hate it
when the man guides her with his right arm.
So, between the two extremes of the man ending up facing out, and
the man putting his right arm around the lady, you have the compromise of
starting the Allemande normally, but then the man turning towards the lady
as the move ends - this is known in some circles as a Polite Turn.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
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8:50 p.m.
New subject: [Callers] Ladies Chain to Allemande Left (Was: Does this dance already exist?)
In case anyone might be under the assumption that I'd claimed to have
invented the Ladies Chain or similar... :-)
My understanding of the context of the original post was looking for a
modern era dance featuring Ladies Chain with Courtesy Turn, proceeding
directly to a full Allemande Left with the same person. That's the sequence
in my dance I referenced (and haven't encountered elsewhere before).
Fascinating and informative Chain history thread please continue...
-Don
2575
days inactive
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days old
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3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Don Veino via Callers -
James Saxe via Callers
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John Sweeney via Callers
-
Robert Livingston via Callers