Wow this certainly has been quite the thread since I have been away, but I have some thoughts about teaching the swing and teaching the lesson in general. I have been told that new dancers can memorize at most 3 or 4 new things from a lesson, so I'm not going to try to inundate them with a lot of new stuff/jargon/etc.  My goal is to get them to know the structure of the dance but also to relax and note that whether they do things properly or not is not the point, but to enjoy the experience. As for the swing - I do demonstrate the buzz step but I don't necessarily say that it's better than the walking step.  I have them try both and let them give the option.  I do a swing demo where I walk and the other person buzzes and note that it's just as nice if you are giving good weight.  Of course good weight during a swing is also important - I note that both people in the swing need to give weight, but I don't belabor that fact and let them try it a few times with different people to get the feel of it.  Perfection is not a must, even good form isn't all that important to me, just that they get the feel of it and end with the proper person on the right.   I teach very few moves during a lesson.  Usually do-si-dos, but I don't belabor that, and allemandes, swings and chains.  That's about it - those are things you can pretty much expect in almost every dance out there.  Everything else can be taught during the course of a dance.  I focus on weight and on dance structure - lining up, progression, hall geography, up and down, etc - because those are things they will need to know for every dance.  One thing that is starting to bug me is seeing heys taught in the workshop.  I find that a waste of time. I know that some callers feel that it needs a lot of explanation so they do it in their workshops, but how many heys do you have an evening usually?  Two maybe, perhaps even three.  I feel that's best taught during the course of the dance with experienced dancers pointing the way, and even if they don't do it right, as long as they know where to be and who to be with when the hey is over, that's golden for me.    I agree with Tom - let's not give the dancers a lot to focus on right at the start.  Let them relax and let them know it's just a dance and if they don't get it exactly right, enjoy the experience and keep on coming back and you'll get better.   Perry From: Tom Hinds via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> To: Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com> Cc: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [Callers] Buzz Step Swing Maia,   Personally I really don't give a hoot which swing people teach. I've voiced my opinion and I'm ready to move on.  My real concern is my own dance in C'ville which seems to be going down hill.  Callers have done such horrible jobs teaching the lesson that the board voted to have me teach all of the lessons.  What's important to me is that the swing is taught well and safely no matter which one is chosen.  I've responded to some of your points in sprinkles below. On Jun 21, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote: Tom, at a guess, Aahz is not talking about NOT spending time on the swing, nor about neglecting to teach dancers how to start/end one--just that the finer points of technique aren't a priority for the beginner's lesson.  Yes that's a guess.  And he wasn't real specific in his first email.   I believe he mentioned sashayed in a latter email so that's probably what he meant, ending a swing with the lady on left, man on the right. John mentions the bad habits that even experienced dancers may have while swinging, such as: - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press- hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable- use too much strength and try to do silly things like making theirpartners feet leave the floor- lean sideways or backwards- start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way so that theyend up in the wrong place What's your conclusion and what's the bigger picture?  Perhaps the dance community is full of bad teachers and/or bad students or something else is going on..........Or is all of the above OK?  We're not MWSDers or ballet dancers are we? I find it pretty telling that this list of habits actually has nothing to do with footwork! In my opinion, the reason to teach walking swing instead of buzz-step to beginners is that there's SO MUCH ELSE to concentrate on. NO!  NO, NO, NO!!!!   I have to strongly disagree with you here.  There isn't SO MUCH ELSE to concentrate on.  I have no doubt that I program a dance night way differently than you or the others do.   How I program and how I teach the lesson are unique to me and both fit together and the newbies are never overwhelmed by SO MUCH ELSE. I haven't seen you or the others call but I have to say that there's this stage that some of us go through where we perceive the beginners as  deficient and therefore need to be stuffed with all of these rules, moves etc.  so that we can have a REAL modern urban contra dance.  I went through that stage but I'm over it now.  I see it in many callers.  The real secret to calling as far as I'm concerned has to do with personality and emotions, not moves.  For me, dancing is a vehicle to community.   Perhaps the dancers in your area have certain expectation of a dance level.   I'm fortunate here in C'ville that the dancers don't have those expectations.  They are real laid back. I didn't say this yet but I've come to the conclusion that one's calling is a system.  If you value or choose one aspect in that system you, by default choose other aspects.  Programming and the beginning workshop should fit logically together.   There's so much that goes into programming and there's so much that goes into choosing one's system that I find this little discussion about swing to be a bit meaningless.  In C'ville in the last two years, those who didn't teach a swing at all had lousy programs-I mean most of the floor went home at the break-it's that bad!!  The two seem to be correlated.  If you're unskilled in one you tend to be unskilled in the other. The more things we can abstract away, the easier a time beginners will have learning what's left. If you're focusing on strange new footwork (and I find that buzz-stepping beginners tend to think that the buzz-stepping is the most important part of the swing, and concentrate more on that than on their frame), it's harder to pick up things like giving weight, a proper hold, etc. But everyone already knows how to walk! I consider the way I teach a buzz step swing to be efficient, maybe taking 5 minutes for a small group. Maia, perhaps you should watch my beginning workshop.   At the end of my workshop they are ready!!!.  The integration of the beginners into the evening's dance is seamless.  If they survive the beginning lesson (which they all can) the rest of the evening is literally a piece of cake because of the way I program.  I'm human and it doesn't always go well but in general it does. I would also add that I would much rather dance with someone doing a funky/odd/strange/unpracticed walking swing than a funky/odd/strange/unpracticed buzz step. I've also come to the conclusion that everything that goes on at a contra dance can be boiled down to plain emotions.  I recently watched a caller who is a very good showman.  I think he's insecure.  He doesn't show compassion also so he fails as a caller-doesn't establish a relationship with any of the dancers.   I also think he's afraid to teach (fear of boring the experienced dancers) so he does a rushed job of all of his walk throughs.  The beginners have their own emotional reaction to this: frustration big time. Perhaps you think that we humans are rational.  But the truth is we are emotional and the emotional side of us bring in the rational side to justify what we want.  As I see it, most of this talk is just BS-rational sounding BS for what we really feel and value.  I value the buzz and therefore feel like teaching the buzz step swing.  John also values the buzz so that's what he does.  Someone else may not value the buzz or doesn't know how to do it, so that's what they feel like doing. I find that there are fewer ways to mess up a walk, and that there's less potential for your partner to be uncomfortable or perhaps harmed than with one of those galloping, out-of-control excited-pony buzz step swings. Just my two cents! Cheers,Maia On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: I love John's idea of teaching the buzz step as individuals first, then as couples. The most frequent complaints I hear from men is that women hang on them and don't hold up their own weight during a swing. The most frequent complaint I hear from women is men pulling them off their feet and going too fast. If they can learn to hold themselves upright on their own first, then everyone will have a much more enjoyable experience. -Amy _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________Callers mailing listCallers@lists.sharedweight.nethttp://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net