On Thu, May 28, 2015, Alan Winston via Callers wrote: Ditto all this.

We are still using larks and ravens at the Berkeley dance. And, though I don't seem to have too much trouble using different words for different dances -- so far I've used men/women, ladies/gents, bands/bares, trees/squirrels, and larks/ravens without changing my mess of dance notes -- I understand that others can't switch so easily. On this note, at the Berkeley dance a caller recently did the following: 1) asked if anyone had some post-its. When found some 2) wrote "lark" and "raven" on the sticky end 3) cut out these little cheat-sheets 4) covered the words "gents" and "ladies" with the post-it cheats 5) move cheats to next card as needed Thereby changing their cards to the current words on the fly. I was impressed. ~erik hoffman oakland, ca On 5/28/2015 8:01 PM, Kalia Kliban via Callers wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

On May 29, 2015, at 1:56 AM, P. Campbell via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I like jets & rubies (and have used the terms) for a number of reasons. (Don't like gems for same reason about confusion). In a weird way, it's close enough to "lefts & rights" for me to have no trouble remembering who's who (with rubies starting with "r"), and, (apologies to those who might be offended), because it fits the same syllables for me as "gents & ladies" (which I use for historical dance) or "men & women". For some reason I just can't get a feel for larks & ravens (I have an idea of why but not worth sharing), and I'm not at all comfortable using bands & bares. For me, it's whatever will be the easiest for me to remember which side is which, and if my brain is wired to think of "jets" (black color) as more masculine and "rubies" (red color) as more feminine (so easier for me to link them to left & right), that's my mental visual process. (I tried apples & oranges once with a group of kids - it was terrible because I couldn't remember which was which side - I have to have some frame of reference). I think one of the reasons I have trouble with larks & ravens is because of having learned a foreign language that has a gender for nouns, and I want to make larks the right side and ravens the left, but then the syllable structure doesn't work for me. My 2 cents. Patricia Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2015, at 3:51 PM, Alan Winston via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

I have used suns and moons for years, and prefer them because they have one syllable each, sound completely different from each other, and are easy for the dancers to remember. I have never had any issue arise about gender bias from them. The conversation about which gems to use does seem a bit too overthought to me.

I kinda like suns and moons better than lots of the other alternatives, for the same reasons Susan lists. Also, there's Sun Dance and Moon Dance, by Robert Cromartie: gents swing in Sun Dance and ladies swing in Moon Dance. A precedence, perhaps? -Amy On May 29, 2015, at 8:00 AM, susanelberger via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I have used suns and moons for years, and prefer them because they have one syllable each, sound completely different from each other, and are easy for the dancers to remember. I have never had any issue arise about gender bias from them. The conversation about which gems to use does seem a bit too overthought to me. Susan Elberger Lowell, Massachusetts ------------------------------ *From:* Delia Clark via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *To:* &quot;&lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt;&quot; &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *Sent:* Friday, May 29, 2015 6:52 AM *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Jets / rubies genderfree terms redux: gems? Okay, this conversation, plus the lunch table at the Puttin’ On the Dance Conference in Ottawa are FINALLY getting me to give up clinging to moons and stars (the only non-gender term I’ve ever used, which I have liked with families and have found works well, but which I understand is too gender-y to be acceptable as the solution we’re looking for - dang!). I am herewith committing to trying out Jets and Rubies next weekend at a dance I’m calling for a wedding of two women. Will report back. On May 29, 2015, at 1:56 AM, P. Campbell via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I like jets & rubies (and have used the terms) for a number of reasons. (Don't like gems for same reason about confusion). In a weird way, it's close enough to "lefts & rights" for me to have no trouble remembering who's who (with rubies starting with "r"), and, (apologies to those who might be offended), because it fits the same syllables for me as "gents & ladies" (which I use for historical dance) or "men & women". For some reason I just can't get a feel for larks & ravens (I have an idea of why but not worth sharing), and I'm not at all comfortable using bands & bares. For me, it's whatever will be the easiest for me to remember which side is which, and if my brain is wired to think of "jets" (black color) as more masculine and "rubies" (red color) as more feminine (so easier for me to link them to left & right), that's my mental visual process. (I tried apples & oranges once with a group of kids - it was terrible because I couldn't remember which was which side - I have to have some frame of reference). I think one of the reasons I have trouble with larks & ravens is because of having learned a foreign language that has a gender for nouns, and I want to make larks the right side and ravens the left, but then the syllable structure doesn't work for me. My 2 cents. Patricia Sent from my iPhone On May 28, 2015, at 3:51 PM, Alan Winston via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: On 5/28/15 12:30 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote: For those interested in gender free contra dance terms: 1. Do you like or dislike jets / rubies ? Like. (I'm responding on personal preference alone; I'm aware of some objections to this, which I don't personally share.) 2. How would gems / rubies compare? Less good, because the soft "ms" would make the call less clear. Also, rubies _are_ gems, so this is confusing. -- Alan _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net <>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<>:<> Delia Clark PO Box 45 Taftsville, VT 05073 802-457-2075 deliaclark8(a)gmail.com _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net