Hi Andrea, Good to hear about the up/down chain from lady’s perspective. I’d danced the figure in other contras and not heard the complaint from partners. That said, I’d already played with doing this as a Becket as well, which sounds like it’s a better way to go. The other ideas – yummy. I’ll play with those, too. Thanx, Ric From: Andrea Nettleton [mailto:twirly-girl@bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:40 AM To: Ric Goldman - Letsdance &lt;letsdance(a)rgoldman.org&gt;rg>; callers(a)sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Poise points (WAS: Does this dance already exist?) Hey Ric, Some thoughts: I have danced chains up and down, as the lady, and really hate them. There's often too little room between sets for the ladies from adjacent hands four to safely and comfortably pass without bumping. Variable skill level and attention increases that risk. Why up and down? If you want a partner swing, how about after a neighbor swing, diagonal chain to shadow, then swat the flea and pull by to P? If it doesn't matter who you are getting to, chain to N from becket, then STF and pull by to swing a new N. Still by and large the same movement, but with normal chains to start, and, I dare say, you'd already be facing the one you want to swing, no rotating to find them. About the transition to L hand hold for STF, I realized as I was writing that I didn't know if you meant that the pair would just roll to face or if the lady would be unfurled across the gents body and end on the other side. It would make a difference as to how well my ideas above would work, though I think the main adjustment would be to whom the ladies chained. Neat idea though, either way. You didn't say balance before the seat the flea. You implied in your notes however. I do think it might be needed for timing except maybe with the diagonal chain which can be less forgiving depending on the crowd. My two cents. Curious about why the up and down chain. Best, Andrea Sent from my external brain On Apr 11, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Ric Goldman - Letsdance via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote: Hi Martha, Interesting idea about transitions and poise points. I’m working on a dance with transitions I think are interesting, but worry they could be too jarring (have not tried it on human salt shakers yet). Here’s the first part: Start: improper A1 1-4 Ladies chain up and down set to neighbor, courtesy turn (at end releasing right hand, hold on to the left, facing each other across the set) 5-8 Swat the flea A2 1-8 (turn up/down the set to) Balance and swing partner One possible way to “smooth” the transition from the courtesy turn might be to release the right hand early and use left hands to turn the lady under (clockwise, lady turn right) before going into the balance for the swat, but I resist having it be a forced twirl. Perhaps folks would “discover” that on their own. What other transistions or poise points do folks find interesting? Thanx, Ric Goldman letsdance(a)rgoldman.org <mailto:letsdance@rgoldman.org> From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Martha Wild via Callers Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 11:39 PM To: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net> > Subject: Re: [Callers] Does this dance already exist? Hi, all. Actually, I think the transition from the petronella to the ladies chain is a good one. There are certain moves in dancing, that I’ve heard called “poise points,” where one purposefully switches direction, and it can be very satisfying. For me, the spin to the right feels like the winding up of a spring that you then unleash in the other direction. Some dances that look as if they have good flow end up having so much clockwise spin that it tires people. On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:48 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote: Hi Esther, If anyone has not mentioned it, I feel there is a kink in the flow trying to go from a petronella to a chain. As you spin R, it is the left hand which feels available as you face the set because your body has been rotating clockwise, even as it move CCW around the minor set. So there will be this washing machine action to get into the chain. You might be counting on the claps to arrest that movement, but I still feel it's not an especially satisfying entry into the chain. A gents chain, otoh, would be peachy. What, to you, is the hook in this dance? What were you going for? Best, Andrea Sent from my external brain On Apr 10, 2017, at 5:24 PM, Esther Fraser via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > wrote: Hey folks, Has anyone seen this dance already? A1: Balance the ring & petronella Ladies Chain A2: Full Hey, Ladies pass R (16) B1: Ladies Chain P Allemande L B2: Balance the ring & Petronella Balance the ring & California twirl Also interested in other dances that have a Ladies' Chain to into Allemande Left (with the one you chain to) combo. I think I might have seen it somewhere, but I can't remember where. Thanks, Esther Fraser _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net