Hi all,
I've included John's comments below, but thought I'd start a new thread on
introductory lessons, which is sort of the bigger picture of what we talk
about when we talk about a caller teaching the swing.
I don't call much, but I still teach introductory lessons before weekly
dances every now and then. In my community, it's pretty common for local
callers (or even some local dancers who aren't callers) to teach the lesson
when there's an out-of-town caller booked for the night. I think this
system has advantages and disadvantages: as an organizer, I like being able
to control what goes in the lesson, since, as discussed below, I have some
fairly strong opinions on what makes an introductory lesson welcoming and
successful, but if I were a traveling caller calling my home dance, I would
feel at a disadvantage if I could not tailor the lesson the program I
intended to call.
So, what do you all focus on when teaching the lesson? It seems from the
previous thread that there are several approaches:
- teach the moves that are most difficult for dancers to get (right and
left through, ladies' chain)
- teach the moves in proportion to how many times you call them during the
night (swing, allemande, circle)
- teach the moves that will mess you up the most if you don't do them right
(half promenade across, half chain, half anything, really)
- teach skills, such as sharing weight
My approach is really to do none of these. I do teach dancers how to share
weight, and generally teach it in the context of a circle, then a two hand
walk around with one other person, then a buzz-step swing. If I have time
after that I may quickly go through a few other moves, but I don't consider
that a necessity.
Instead, what I focus on is teaching newcomers to dance with a variety of
partners, ask experienced dancers to dance, listen to the caller, look up
for help when lost, and clap to show their appreciation for the performers
at the end of each dance. I tell them explicitly what I think is most
important and what I am there to help them get out of the night: I want
nobody to get hurt, and I want them all to have a good time. At the end of
the lesson, I will even try to point out experienced dancers who I think
the newcomers should dance with at some point. I tell the newcomers that
they should dance each dance with a different person, that it is totally
fine to sit dances out if they need a break, and that if somebody asks them
to dance but they don't want to dance with that person, simply say "no
thank you." I also identify members of the dance committee who are in the
room in case they have any questions at all or have any problems during the
dance, and again stress to them that we are here to help them have a great
time.
The way I view it, if I teach 20 moves in a 30-minute lesson, the newcomers
will not remember those moves after an hour of dancing. If I teach them
that the community is committed to ensuring they have a safe, fun dancing
experience, and that experienced dancers will help them through the rest, I
think that is 90% of what helps newcomers get the most out of their first
dance.
Obviously, my view of how the lesson should be only works in communities
with a lot of experienced dancers. I'd never be able to get away with
teaching a lesson without telling anybody what an allemande is if the hall
is full of beginners.
-Dave
Washington, DC
On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:13 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Thanks for all the great ideas/
>
>
>
> Yes, I should say gallop instead of skate-board – I start with “Now walk
> fast on the spot” before I tell them to turn, so I assume they are going to
> keep alternating their feet, but some don’t! Maybe “gallop” will help. I
> did get one guy at a workshop tell me that he had been taught to keep one
> foot fixed on the floor on a single spot. I showed him what would happen
> if we both did that – in slow motion, otherwise it could have been quite
> painful J
>
>
>
> Ron asked, “Okay, so what about my first comment: Not everyone is
> physically able to do the buzzstep swing?”
>
>
>
> Well, my first statement was “Yes, of course I always tell dancers that
> they can walk instead of buzz” and the last line of my sample teach was,
> “If you are having trouble with the buzz-step then you can always just
> walk.”
>
>
>
> So I thought I had covered that. Sorry if I have misunderstood.
>
>
>
> At one of the weekly sessions I run we get around 25 to 30 people each
> week; most of them are ladies, and the ages range mainly from 50s to
> mid-80s. We provide badges saying, “Please swing gently” and we tell them
> they can walk. I always teach the buzz-step and they all try it. Most of
> them carry on doing a buzz-step and very few wear the badges after the
> first few weeks once they have got used to swinging.
>
>
>
> They also love my no-swing contras – they don’t need swings to have fun!
>
>
>
> Ron also said, “The single most important thing to teach a dancer is "it's
> okay to make mistakes".”. I agree that that is important and we joke about
> the mistakes a lot. Sometimes they have the most fun when they fail
> completely!
>
>
>
> But my Rule #1 is:
>
> “Every dancer has the right to get on the dance-floor and have fun without
> getting hurt.”
>
>
>
> I have been hurt a lot on the dance-floor. I used to dance Ceroc/Modern
> Jive three or four nights a week. You know the way that some people yank on
> you when they step back in the Balance before a swing? Well in Modern Jive
> you step apart about once every eight steps, and the general level of
> technique teaching at Modern Jive classes is very low, so most of the
> dancers have never been told that they shouldn’t pull when they step back.
> In fact some of the <expletive deleted> teachers actually tell them to pull
> to generate tension, without mentioning that the level of tension required
> is around the one ounce level, not the one ton level! So I ended up with
> repetitive stress injuries which weakened my muscular infrastructure and
> when an aerial move went wrong in a practice session I ended up tearing one
> of my rotator cuff (shoulder) muscles badly.
>
>
>
> Aerials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJnL_Y63AnY – that’s me in black.
>
>
>
> So, having had two shoulder operations, and not wanting any more, if my
> partner appears to be about to throw their whole weight at me when they
> step back in a Balance & Swing then I step forward to prevent it. (Once
> having asked a lady to stop pulling on the step-back as she was hurting me,
> and failing to get through to her, next time we stepped back I pulled on
> her. She immediately got cross and said I had hurt her. The irony appeared
> to be completely lost on her!). And if a lady leans back in a swing then I
> move my hand from her shoulder blade to her waist so she has to stand up or
> fall over! I have learnt a lot of self-defence skills over the years!
>
>
>
> I recently ran a “Contra Skillz – Style and Technique” workshop at a UK
> festival and the experienced dancers loved it – most of them do want to
> improve and do want the caller to do some teaching. (Of course, they
> self-selected by attending the workshop in the first place!)
>
>
>
> One of the guys is a very good dancer, but my wife, Karen, complained that
> his swinging was far too forceful; he was rigid and using too much power.
> The first thing I taught in the workshop was that most people will swing
> better if they relax. Next time she swung with him, he was, as usual,
> rigid, but, because I had empowered her by teaching relaxation, she felt
> able to say, with a big smile, “And relax <she breathed out>” – he did the
> same and suddenly turned into a wonderful swing partner. She heaped on the
> praise and he felt good that he was giving Karen a better swing.
>
>
>
> I agree with Tom that we all have different perspectives and so we
> approach things differently. That is a good thing as far as I am
> concerned. If all callers ran their evening the same way then the dancers
> would get bored. Different approaches help different people, and give the
> variety needed to keep the dance alive.
>
>
>
> My perspective is based on learning the Galway Swing from my Irish mother
> when I was a teenager (take an Allemande Right hold, each of you cup your
> left fingertips around your partner’s right elbow, buzz – great fun!), so I
> have been buzzing for fifty years and would always choose it. But of
> course I walk if I or my partner is tired, or if my partner can’t cope with
> a fast swing, or if they are such a bad swinger that I need to slow the
> swing down to avoid damage. Though actually you can do a slow, controlled
> buzz-step swing and that can feel great too.
>
>
>
> I also agree that programming is crucial to a successful evening. Apart
> from avoiding overuse of particular moves or sequences, providing variety,
> and trying to include something a bit different, I am also building the
> move set slowly so that newcomers get to a point where they can do great
> dances later in the evening because they have seen all the bits already.
>
>
>
> The Right & Left Through is such a counter-intuitive move that I often
> leave it out completely. If I need it for a particular dance then I can
> change it to a Half Promenade. I certainly never spend time teaching it in
> a beginner’s workshop unless I am planning to use it multiple times in the
> evening.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for all the great ideas in this thread.
>
>
>
> Maybe I should stop rambling now… J
>
>
>
> Happy dancing,
>
> John
>
>
>
> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802
> 940 574
>
> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs
>
> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
Thanks for all the great ideas/
Yes, I should say gallop instead of skate-board - I start with "Now walk
fast on the spot" before I tell them to turn, so I assume they are going to
keep alternating their feet, but some don't! Maybe "gallop" will help. I
did get one guy at a workshop tell me that he had been taught to keep one
foot fixed on the floor on a single spot. I showed him what would happen if
we both did that - in slow motion, otherwise it could have been quite
painful :)
Ron asked, "Okay, so what about my first comment: Not everyone is physically
able to do the buzzstep swing?"
Well, my first statement was "Yes, of course I always tell dancers that they
can walk instead of buzz" and the last line of my sample teach was, "If you
are having trouble with the buzz-step then you can always just walk."
So I thought I had covered that. Sorry if I have misunderstood.
At one of the weekly sessions I run we get around 25 to 30 people each week;
most of them are ladies, and the ages range mainly from 50s to mid-80s. We
provide badges saying, "Please swing gently" and we tell them they can walk.
I always teach the buzz-step and they all try it. Most of them carry on
doing a buzz-step and very few wear the badges after the first few weeks
once they have got used to swinging.
They also love my no-swing contras - they don't need swings to have fun!
Ron also said, "The single most important thing to teach a dancer is "it's
okay to make mistakes".". I agree that that is important and we joke about
the mistakes a lot. Sometimes they have the most fun when they fail
completely!
But my Rule #1 is:
"Every dancer has the right to get on the dance-floor and have fun without
getting hurt."
I have been hurt a lot on the dance-floor. I used to dance Ceroc/Modern
Jive three or four nights a week. You know the way that some people yank on
you when they step back in the Balance before a swing? Well in Modern Jive
you step apart about once every eight steps, and the general level of
technique teaching at Modern Jive classes is very low, so most of the
dancers have never been told that they shouldn't pull when they step back.
In fact some of the <expletive deleted> teachers actually tell them to pull
to generate tension, without mentioning that the level of tension required
is around the one ounce level, not the one ton level! So I ended up with
repetitive stress injuries which weakened my muscular infrastructure and
when an aerial move went wrong in a practice session I ended up tearing one
of my rotator cuff (shoulder) muscles badly.
Aerials: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJnL_Y63AnY - that's me in black.
So, having had two shoulder operations, and not wanting any more, if my
partner appears to be about to throw their whole weight at me when they step
back in a Balance & Swing then I step forward to prevent it. (Once having
asked a lady to stop pulling on the step-back as she was hurting me, and
failing to get through to her, next time we stepped back I pulled on her.
She immediately got cross and said I had hurt her. The irony appeared to be
completely lost on her!). And if a lady leans back in a swing then I move
my hand from her shoulder blade to her waist so she has to stand up or fall
over! I have learnt a lot of self-defence skills over the years!
I recently ran a "Contra Skillz - Style and Technique" workshop at a UK
festival and the experienced dancers loved it - most of them do want to
improve and do want the caller to do some teaching. (Of course, they
self-selected by attending the workshop in the first place!)
One of the guys is a very good dancer, but my wife, Karen, complained that
his swinging was far too forceful; he was rigid and using too much power.
The first thing I taught in the workshop was that most people will swing
better if they relax. Next time she swung with him, he was, as usual,
rigid, but, because I had empowered her by teaching relaxation, she felt
able to say, with a big smile, "And relax <she breathed out>" - he did the
same and suddenly turned into a wonderful swing partner. She heaped on the
praise and he felt good that he was giving Karen a better swing.
I agree with Tom that we all have different perspectives and so we approach
things differently. That is a good thing as far as I am concerned. If all
callers ran their evening the same way then the dancers would get bored.
Different approaches help different people, and give the variety needed to
keep the dance alive.
My perspective is based on learning the Galway Swing from my Irish mother
when I was a teenager (take an Allemande Right hold, each of you cup your
left fingertips around your partner's right elbow, buzz - great fun!), so I
have been buzzing for fifty years and would always choose it. But of course
I walk if I or my partner is tired, or if my partner can't cope with a fast
swing, or if they are such a bad swinger that I need to slow the swing down
to avoid damage. Though actually you can do a slow, controlled buzz-step
swing and that can feel great too.
I also agree that programming is crucial to a successful evening. Apart
from avoiding overuse of particular moves or sequences, providing variety,
and trying to include something a bit different, I am also building the move
set slowly so that newcomers get to a point where they can do great dances
later in the evening because they have seen all the bits already.
The Right & Left Through is such a counter-intuitive move that I often leave
it out completely. If I need it for a particular dance then I can change it
to a Half Promenade. I certainly never spend time teaching it in a
beginner's workshop unless I am planning to use it multiple times in the
evening.
Thanks again for all the great ideas in this thread.
Maybe I should stop rambling now. :)
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England <mailto:john@modernjive.com>
john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574
<http://www.modernjive.com> http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive
Events & DVDs
<http://www.contrafusion.co.uk> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing
in Kent
Maia,
Personally I really don't give a hoot which swing people teach. I've
voiced my opinion and I'm ready to move on. My real concern is my
own dance in C'ville which seems to be going down hill. Callers have
done such horrible jobs teaching the lesson that the board voted to
have me teach all of the lessons. What's important to me is that the
swing is taught well and safely no matter which one is chosen. I've
responded to some of your points in sprinkles below.
On Jun 21, 2015, at 1:52 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
> Tom, at a guess, Aahz is not talking about NOT spending time on the
> swing, nor about neglecting to teach dancers how to start/end one--
> just that the finer points of technique aren't a priority for the
> beginner's lesson.
Yes that's a guess. And he wasn't real specific in his first
email. I believe he mentioned sashayed in a latter email so that's
probably what he meant, ending a swing with the lady on left, man on
the right.
> John mentions the bad habits that even experienced dancers may have
> while swinging, such as:
> - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press
> - hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable
> - use too much strength and try to do silly things like making their
> partners feet leave the floor
> - lean sideways or backwards
> - start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way so
> that they
> end up in the wrong place
What's your conclusion and what's the bigger picture? Perhaps the
dance community is full of bad teachers and/or bad students or
something else is going on..........Or is all of the above OK? We're
not MWSDers or ballet dancers are we?
> I find it pretty telling that this list of habits actually has
> nothing to do with footwork! In my opinion, the reason to teach
> walking swing instead of buzz-step to beginners is that there's SO
> MUCH ELSE to concentrate on.
NO! NO, NO, NO!!!! I have to strongly disagree with you here.
There isn't SO MUCH ELSE to concentrate on. I have no doubt that I
program a dance night way differently than you or the others do.
How I program and how I teach the lesson are unique to me and both
fit together and the newbies are never overwhelmed by SO MUCH ELSE.
I haven't seen you or the others call but I have to say that there's
this stage that some of us go through where we perceive the beginners
as deficient and therefore need to be stuffed with all of these
rules, moves etc. so that we can have a REAL modern urban contra
dance. I went through that stage but I'm over it now. I see it in
many callers. The real secret to calling as far as I'm concerned has
to do with personality and emotions, not moves. For me, dancing is a
vehicle to community.
Perhaps the dancers in your area have certain expectation of a dance
level. I'm fortunate here in C'ville that the dancers don't have
those expectations. They are real laid back.
I didn't say this yet but I've come to the conclusion that one's
calling is a system. If you value or choose one aspect in that
system you, by default choose other aspects. Programming and the
beginning workshop should fit logically together. There's so much
that goes into programming and there's so much that goes into
choosing one's system that I find this little discussion about swing
to be a bit meaningless. In C'ville in the last two years, those who
didn't teach a swing at all had lousy programs-I mean most of the
floor went home at the break-it's that bad!! The two seem to be
correlated. If you're unskilled in one you tend to be unskilled in
the other.
> The more things we can abstract away, the easier a time beginners
> will have learning what's left. If you're focusing on strange new
> footwork (and I find that buzz-stepping beginners tend to think
> that the buzz-stepping is the most important part of the swing, and
> concentrate more on that than on their frame), it's harder to pick
> up things like giving weight, a proper hold, etc. But everyone
> already knows how to walk!
I consider the way I teach a buzz step swing to be efficient, maybe
taking 5 minutes for a small group.
Maia, perhaps you should watch my beginning workshop.
At the end of my workshop they are ready!!!. The integration of the
beginners into the evening's dance is seamless. If they survive the
beginning lesson (which they all can) the rest of the evening is
literally a piece of cake because of the way I program. I'm human
and it doesn't always go well but in general it does.
>
> I would also add that I would much rather dance with someone doing
> a funky/odd/strange/unpracticed walking swing than a funky/odd/
> strange/unpracticed buzz step.
I've also come to the conclusion that everything that goes on at a
contra dance can be boiled down to plain emotions. I recently
watched a caller who is a very good showman. I think he's insecure.
He doesn't show compassion also so he fails as a caller-doesn't
establish a relationship with any of the dancers. I also think he's
afraid to teach (fear of boring the experienced dancers) so he does a
rushed job of all of his walk throughs. The beginners have their own
emotional reaction to this: frustration big time.
Perhaps you think that we humans are rational. But the truth is we
are emotional and the emotional side of us bring in the rational side
to justify what we want. As I see it, most of this talk is just BS-
rational sounding BS for what we really feel and value. I value the
buzz and therefore feel like teaching the buzz step swing. John also
values the buzz so that's what he does. Someone else may not value
the buzz or doesn't know how to do it, so that's what they feel like
doing.
> I find that there are fewer ways to mess up a walk, and that
> there's less potential for your partner to be uncomfortable or
> perhaps harmed than with one of those galloping, out-of-control
> excited-pony buzz step swings.
>
> Just my two cents!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I love John's idea of teaching the buzz step as individuals first,
> then as couples. The most frequent complaints I hear from men is that
> women hang on them and don't hold up their own weight during a swing.
> The most frequent complaint I hear from women is men pulling them off
> their feet and going too fast. If they can learn to hold themselves
> upright on their own first, then everyone will have a much more
> enjoyable experience.
>
> -Amy
>
>
>
> > On Jun 21, 2015, at 3:44 AM, John Sweeney via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, of course I always tell dancers that they can walk instead
> of buzz, but
> > the buzz-step is so much more fun that it seems crazy not to
> teach it when
> > every dance is going to have a swing and usually two.
> >
> > <Digression:> Yes, I love swinging, and have been loving it for
> fifty years
> > now, but why does every new dance have to have two swings? Oh
> no, not
> > Neighbour Balance & Swing, Circle Left 3/4, Partner Swing again -
> that's
> > half the dance gone with nothing new or interesting in it! (And
> changing the
> > Circle Left 3/4 to Men/Ladies Allemande 1 & 1/2 does not make it
> more
> > interesting!) I write lots of dances with one or zero swings - a
> zero-swing
> > dance can have so much good stuff in it that the dancers don't
> even notice
> > there is no swing; they are having too much fun. It always
> puzzles me when
> > people take a great one-swing dance and re-choreograph it to add
> a second
> > swing, losing part of what made it a great dance just for the
> sake of even
> > more swinging. <End of digression.>
> >
> > I found it interesting that Ron said, "the buzz-step swing gets
> axed if I'm
> > short on time". If I only had time to teach one thing then the
> only thing I
> > would teach would be the buzz-step swing, and how to finish it so
> you end up
> > in the right place. I can't think of anything else that
> newcomers can't
> > learn during the walk-throughs.
> >
> > Question: If you were calling for a group with a dozen newcomers
> in the hall
> > out of 100 people, and the organizers said you could have two
> minutes
> > teaching before you started the first walk-through, what would
> you teach?
> > For me the answer is obvious, every dance has a buzz-step swing;
> teach a
> > buzz-step swing.
> >
> > Another reason for teaching swinging is that there are a
> significant number
> > of "experienced" dancers who have bad swinging habits. I dance
> all over the
> > USA and the UK and wherever I go there are always some people who:
> > - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press
> > - hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable
> > - use too much strength and try to do silly things like making their
> > partners feet leave the floor
> > - lean sideways or backwards
> > - start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way so
> that they
> > end up in the wrong place
> > - etc.
> >
> > If just a couple of those dancers pick up on any of these points
> and improve
> > their swinging then you have done good work!
> >
> > Yes, I hate it when callers talk too much and take time out of
> dancing time.
> > But this can be really short:
> >
> > Sample teach:
> > = = = = = = = =
> > Hi, I'm John. We have some new people here today and they are
> going to
> > spend half an hour swinging tonight, so please let's spend a
> minute or two
> > on showing them how it's done. And all you great dancers out
> there why not
> > see if you can't make your swing even better for you and your
> partners.
> >
> > This is called a buzz-step swing.
> >
> > First, let go of you partner completely. Put your left toe just
> behind your
> > right foot like this. Now walk fast on the spot. Now push with
> your left
> > foor as though you were on a skateboard and turn clockwise by
> yourself on
> > the spot. Relax your knees so you don't bounce up and down. See how
> > smoothly.you can turn with the minimum of effort.
> >
> > Now take your partner in a ballroom hold - the man's hand on the
> lady's
> > shoulderblade - it is far more comfotable for the lady if you
> hold them up
> > high. Now relax - make sure you are not pressing on any part of
> your
> > partner.
> >
> > And swing - it should be a gentle embrace where, as a single
> counterbalanced
> > unit, you glide smoothly and effortlessly around. Smile at your
> partner and
> > you won't get dizzy.
> >
> > Now think of your joined hands as an arrowhead and finish
> pointing at the
> > other couple.
> >
> > If you are having trouble with the buzz-step then you can always
> just walk.
> > = = = = = = = =
> >
> > I just timed that and it took less than 90 seconds. Surely that
> is worth
> > doing!
> >
> > Yes, some of them won’t get it, but for those who do you have
> just greatly
> > enhanced their enjoyment of the evening.
> >
> > Anyway, that's what I think. :-)
> >
> > Happy dancing,
> > John
> >
> > John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
> > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> _______________________________________________
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>
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[rearranging quoted parts to make provenance clearer -- which is one
reason I strongly prefer inline quoting ;-) ]
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
>> On Jun 21, 2015, at 3:44 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I found it interesting that Ron said, "the buzz-step swing gets axed
>>> if I'm short on time". If I only had time to teach one thing then
>>> the only thing I would teach would be the buzz-step swing, and how
>>> to finish it so you end up in the right place. I can't think of
>>> anything else that newcomers can't learn during the walk-throughs.
>
> Tom, at a guess, Aahz is not talking about NOT spending time on
> the swing, nor about neglecting to teach dancers how to start/end
> one--just that the finer points of technique aren't a priority for the
> beginner's lesson.
Actually, I was. I was responding to John's point above. My dancing
experience is that a lot of newbies do end up sashayed and that it
causes fewer problems than some other kinds of miscues. (Although I'm a
new caller, I've been doing contra for more than a quarter-century.)
> Of course any teacher worth their salt will teach that a swing always
> ends with the lady on the right. But I think all Aahz is saying is
> that, IF the dancers end the swing with the lady on the right, it
> doesn't really matter how they get there--fumbling through a swing
> happens, and it's easy to recover from, while moves that involve the
> rest of your hands-4 or the rest of the set have potential to cause
> way more disruption to the dance if botched.
That is true, but it's also true IMO that dancers ending up on the wrong
side of the set causes more problems than ending up sashayed after
swinging.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
But keep in mind that no beginner _ever_ does a walking swing, unless that is specifically taught, and usually not even then. They see and/or feel that others are doing a double-time step so they do one too, and since the swing is a clockwise (to-the-left) circle they lead with their left, hence a slipping step rather than a buzzstep. (Either that or they skip.) When I do an actual beginners’ workshop I teach both walking and buzzstep swing, but for something quick on the floor, I think teaching the buzzstep gives better results.
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:28 AM, Lindsay Morris via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> John, respectfully, I have to disagree with your disagreement. A simple walking swing works just fine even when the other person is doing a buzz step.
>
> The HUGE problem that I see with beginner lessons is that people stand around bored while the teacher talks and talks. All the air goes out of the room. Keeping the beginners moving is job number one.
>
> So, I have them do a right elbow swing, to get the body dynamics right. Then maybe 30 seconds of talking about ballroom position, have them do a walking swing, a moment on how to balance, and they are good for the night. Especially if they get to practice that with three or four different people during the lesson.
>
> I can move a competent newcomer from walking-swing to buzz-step swing during the dance, just with "look at my feet."
>
> Always appreciate the perspectives on this list though.
>
>> On Jun 20, 2015, at 5:16 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dale said, "Don't teach advanced techniques to new dancers. Forget the buzz
>> step."
>>
>> Sorry, but I must disagree most strongly.
>>
>> In an average evening of contra dancing you will spend nearly thirty minutes
>> swinging (if the dances are in the Modern Urban Contra Dance style rather
>> than the older styles).
>>
>> I think it is incredibly unfair to a newcomer to make them suffer for thirty
>> minutes rather than teach them how to swing. They can also cause a lot of
>> suffering to whomever they are swinging with if they have lousy technique.
>>
>> I would not agree that it is advanced either. I strongly believe that a
>> couple of minutes teaching the basics of a buzz step swing will give
>> everyone a much more enjoyable evening. Some of them won't get it, but for
>> those that do it can completely change their experience of the evening.
>>
>> Happy dancing,
>> John
>>
>> John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
>> http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
In my beginners’ workshops, that is how I teach buzzstep: after teaching giving weight in a large circle, I have folks give weight in a large circle while galloping. I break up the circles into successively smaller circles and then into twosomes (with a two hand hold), keeping the galloping & giving weight (and then explain that we contra folks call that buzzstep).
Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org
> On Jun 21, 2015, at 12:34 PM, Bob Green via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> …
> I have never tried teaching the buzz step out of ring around the Rosie, but I think I will try it next week.
Erik Hoffman Chiming in:
In a beginners' workshop I will often do a quick demonstration of a buzz
step, but never explicitly teach it. I think it's not opinion that:
* thinking about footwork while trying to also figure out figures
is more than most beginners need
* one walking while one buzz steps works fine
I will say, "if you come back you'll find your feet figuring out out." I
might say, "if you try it, keep your right foot in front of your left
foot," with a small demo.
Things I think are important to covey in that usually 20 minutes:
Giving Weight
No Grip! Gripping leads to hurt! (And I have a small mission of
encouraging callers to remover the word "grip" from their calling
vocabulary.
Smooth transitions
Swing Position
Hands on shoulder blades
Giving Support
98 percent -- end with woman (raven) on right
Geography
Courtesy Turns
Lady's Chain
R&L Thru
Balance - and - Balance & Swing
And, that is a lot to absorb! I think adding footwork is just too much.
Maia wrote:
Of course any teacher worth their salt will teach that a swing
always ends with the lady on the right.
Since I've been dancing for a while, and, back in the day when we used
to do proper, active/inactive dances, and I still occasionally call
those, there are times when you don't end with the lady on the right and
the gent on the left, but instead end backing away from your partner
into the vacant spaces behind you, as in ... Rory O'More!
(I still think it's funny when callers say, "as in Rory O'More," or, "as
in Petronella," and I look around and see 98% of the dancers -- and
possibly even the caller -- have never danced Rory O'More or Petronella...)
I agree with Tom on ending swing transitions offering timing and other
challenges:
Swing and face the next neighbor -- potentially confusing
Swing into a R&L Thru -- incorrect ending messes up timing
Swing int a Ladies Chain -- doesn't need to be a problem, as even
ending up on
the incorrect sides, the women (ravens) just put out their
right hands but
often leads to timing issues because newcomers think they must get
into the correct spot prior to starting the chain...
On 6/21/2015 10:52 AM, Maia McCormick via Callers wrote:
> I agree that the buzz-step is not the be-all, end-all of contra swing!
> I've been dancing for going on 5 years and I pretty much exclusively
> walk-swing, because I find it more comfortable and easy to control,
> and don't actually like swinging extremely fast.
I completely agree with this, although I do buzz. Then again, with new
dancers who are still getting dizzy, sometimes I just sway and slow turn...
> John mentions the bad habits that even experienced dancers may have
> while swinging, such as:
>
> - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press
> - hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable
> - use too much strength and try to do silly things like making
> their
> partners feet leave the floor
> - lean sideways or backwards
> - start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way
> so that they
> end up in the wrong place
>
> I find it pretty telling that this list of habits actually has nothing
> to do with footwork! In my opinion, the reason to teach walking swing
> instead of buzz-step to beginners is that there's SO MUCH ELSE to
> concentrate on. The more things we can abstract away, the easier a
> time beginners will have learning what's left. If you're focusing on
> strange new footwork (and I find that buzz-stepping beginners tend to
> think that the buzz-stepping is the most important part of the swing,
> and concentrate more on that than on their frame), it's harder to pick
> up things like giving weight, a proper hold, etc. But everyone already
> knows how to walk!
Above, I'm putting this in my own words...
Sometimes, if there's a call for it, during the break I'll give a
buzz-step lesson. A long time ago I was presented a way to do this:
first: teach dancers to "gallop": right foot forward, the buzz step
in a straight line
second: have dancers back away from partner, to opposite sides of
the room
third: have dancers hold their "frame"
fourth: set them off galloping towards each other. When they meet,
while still galloping, have them enter into swing position, and they'll
start going round in circles.
It's fun! When I learned this, this teaching plan was attributed to Todd
Whittemore.
erik hoffman
oakland, ca
Oh, one more thing: my local dance (CDNY) often holds a "swinging workshop"
at the break, to teach the finer points of swing, talk about the buzz step
explicitly and give pointers, reiterate the important stuff like giving
weight, etc. This often works pretty well, and might be a good model: a
beginners' lesson at the start of the evening that teaches a simple walking
swing and focuses on the hold, frame, giving weight, where to end the
swing, how to swing safely, etc., and a "swing workshop" at the break to
teach buzz step to those who want to learn it (and refine the buzz-step of
those who have picked it up not-all-that-well), as well as reiterate all of
the technique points about weight and safety.
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:52 PM, Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom, at a guess, Aahz is not talking about NOT spending time on the swing,
> nor about neglecting to teach dancers how to start/end one--just that the
> finer points of technique aren't a priority for the beginner's lesson. Of
> course any teacher worth their salt will teach that a swing always ends
> with the lady on the right. But I think all Aahz is saying is that, IF the
> dancers end the swing with the lady on the right, it doesn't really matter
> how they get there--fumbling through a swing happens, and it's easy to
> recover from, while moves that involve the rest of your hands-4 or the rest
> of the set have potential to cause way more disruption to the dance if
> botched.
>
> I agree that the buzz-step is not the be-all, end-all of contra swing!
> I've been dancing for going on 5 years and I pretty much exclusively
> walk-swing, because I find it more comfortable and easy to control, and
> don't actually like swinging extremely fast.
>
> John mentions the bad habits that even experienced dancers may have while
> swinging, such as:
>
> - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press
> - hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable
> - use too much strength and try to do silly things like making their
> partners feet leave the floor
> - lean sideways or backwards
> - start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way so that they
> end up in the wrong place
>
> I find it pretty telling that this list of habits actually has nothing to
> do with footwork! In my opinion, the reason to teach walking swing instead
> of buzz-step to beginners is that there's SO MUCH ELSE to concentrate on.
> The more things we can abstract away, the easier a time beginners will have
> learning what's left. If you're focusing on strange new footwork (and I
> find that buzz-stepping beginners tend to think that the buzz-stepping is
> the most important part of the swing, and concentrate more on that than on
> their frame), it's harder to pick up things like giving weight, a proper
> hold, etc. But everyone already knows how to walk!
>
> I would also add that I would much rather dance with someone doing a
> funky/odd/strange/unpracticed walking swing than a
> funky/odd/strange/unpracticed buzz step. I find that there are fewer ways
> to mess up a walk, and that there's less potential for your partner to be
> uncomfortable or perhaps harmed than with one of those galloping,
> out-of-control excited-pony buzz step swings.
>
> Just my two cents!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Amy Wimmer via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I love John's idea of teaching the buzz step as individuals first,
>> then as couples. The most frequent complaints I hear from men is that
>> women hang on them and don't hold up their own weight during a swing.
>> The most frequent complaint I hear from women is men pulling them off
>> their feet and going too fast. If they can learn to hold themselves
>> upright on their own first, then everyone will have a much more
>> enjoyable experience.
>>
>> -Amy
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jun 21, 2015, at 3:44 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes, of course I always tell dancers that they can walk instead of
>> buzz, but
>> > the buzz-step is so much more fun that it seems crazy not to teach it
>> when
>> > every dance is going to have a swing and usually two.
>> >
>> > <Digression:> Yes, I love swinging, and have been loving it for fifty
>> years
>> > now, but why does every new dance have to have two swings? Oh no, not
>> > Neighbour Balance & Swing, Circle Left 3/4, Partner Swing again - that's
>> > half the dance gone with nothing new or interesting in it! (And
>> changing the
>> > Circle Left 3/4 to Men/Ladies Allemande 1 & 1/2 does not make it more
>> > interesting!) I write lots of dances with one or zero swings - a
>> zero-swing
>> > dance can have so much good stuff in it that the dancers don't even
>> notice
>> > there is no swing; they are having too much fun. It always puzzles me
>> when
>> > people take a great one-swing dance and re-choreograph it to add a
>> second
>> > swing, losing part of what made it a great dance just for the sake of
>> even
>> > more swinging. <End of digression.>
>> >
>> > I found it interesting that Ron said, "the buzz-step swing gets axed if
>> I'm
>> > short on time". If I only had time to teach one thing then the only
>> thing I
>> > would teach would be the buzz-step swing, and how to finish it so you
>> end up
>> > in the right place. I can't think of anything else that newcomers can't
>> > learn during the walk-throughs.
>> >
>> > Question: If you were calling for a group with a dozen newcomers in the
>> hall
>> > out of 100 people, and the organizers said you could have two minutes
>> > teaching before you started the first walk-through, what would you
>> teach?
>> > For me the answer is obvious, every dance has a buzz-step swing; teach a
>> > buzz-step swing.
>> >
>> > Another reason for teaching swinging is that there are a significant
>> number
>> > of "experienced" dancers who have bad swinging habits. I dance all
>> over the
>> > USA and the UK and wherever I go there are always some people who:
>> > - grip, clamp, squeeze, hang, press
>> > - hold their partner in the wrong place so it is uncomfortable
>> > - use too much strength and try to do silly things like making their
>> > partners feet leave the floor
>> > - lean sideways or backwards
>> > - start twirls too late and when they are facing the wrong way so that
>> they
>> > end up in the wrong place
>> > - etc.
>> >
>> > If just a couple of those dancers pick up on any of these points and
>> improve
>> > their swinging then you have done good work!
>> >
>> > Yes, I hate it when callers talk too much and take time out of dancing
>> time.
>> > But this can be really short:
>> >
>> > Sample teach:
>> > = = = = = = = =
>> > Hi, I'm John. We have some new people here today and they are going to
>> > spend half an hour swinging tonight, so please let's spend a minute or
>> two
>> > on showing them how it's done. And all you great dancers out there why
>> not
>> > see if you can't make your swing even better for you and your partners.
>> >
>> > This is called a buzz-step swing.
>> >
>> > First, let go of you partner completely. Put your left toe just behind
>> your
>> > right foot like this. Now walk fast on the spot. Now push with your left
>> > foor as though you were on a skateboard and turn clockwise by yourself
>> on
>> > the spot. Relax your knees so you don't bounce up and down. See how
>> > smoothly.you can turn with the minimum of effort.
>> >
>> > Now take your partner in a ballroom hold - the man's hand on the lady's
>> > shoulderblade - it is far more comfotable for the lady if you hold them
>> up
>> > high. Now relax - make sure you are not pressing on any part of your
>> > partner.
>> >
>> > And swing - it should be a gentle embrace where, as a single
>> counterbalanced
>> > unit, you glide smoothly and effortlessly around. Smile at your partner
>> and
>> > you won't get dizzy.
>> >
>> > Now think of your joined hands as an arrowhead and finish pointing at
>> the
>> > other couple.
>> >
>> > If you are having trouble with the buzz-step then you can always just
>> walk.
>> > = = = = = = = =
>> >
>> > I just timed that and it took less than 90 seconds. Surely that is worth
>> > doing!
>> >
>> > Yes, some of them won’t get it, but for those who do you have just
>> greatly
>> > enhanced their enjoyment of the evening.
>> >
>> > Anyway, that's what I think. :-)
>> >
>> > Happy dancing,
>> > John
>> >
>> > John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
>> > http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Callers mailing list
>> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
Right after I sent my last message I realized I hadn't mentioned the most
important point directly.
The goal of the beginners' workshop, and the goal of teaching during a
walk-thru, is not to produce dancers with perfect technique and a complete
repertory of moves. The goal is to help dancers have a successful (and
safe) dance experience. That's why telling people where the restrooms
are, and reminding them to drink lots of water is WAY more important than
teaching them to twirl rather than courtesy turn out of a ladies' chain.
If you are running a special workshop focused on style or the nuances of a
particular move (you can spend a lot of time discussing how-to-hey) then
sure go for the gold, but for a workshop, go for the smile, and the "gee,
this is fun, I think I'll come back" moment.
Dale
On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 11:34 AM, Bob Green via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> On Jun 21, 2015, at 5:44 AM, John Sweeney via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, of course I always tell dancers that they can walk instead of buzz,
> but
>
> the buzz-step is so much more fun that it seems crazy not to teach it when
>
> every dance is going to have a swing and usually two.
>
>
> I see a workshop coming on: "The Art of the Walking Swing". While I think
> it is true that it is probably easier for most people to get a swing "up to
> speed" with a buzz step, a skilled walking swing has a slightly subtly
> different but every bit as exhilarating feel as a buzz step. From this
> discussion it appears it is becoming a lost art. I am going to try an
> experiment - walking swings only for the rest of June.
>
> To me, what makes for a good swing is a balance of forces, and that is the
> piece that is both difficult to teach and difficult to maintain. I can't
> even count how many times I have gotten feedback from folks who tried
> contra but didn't go back because people insisted on high speed buzz step
> swings until they were so dizzy they wanted to puke. A quote from my early
> dance education: A good lead can get their partner to go where they want
> them to go. A great lead takes them where they want to go."
>
> I do think it is good to teach the buzz step for those that want it. I got
> my teach-the-swing technique from Becky Hill, and it has proven to be just
> about bullet proof. It starts with ring-around-the-Rosie to develop the
> idea of the balance of forces and negotiating the pace with the person you
> are dancing with. While maintaining that balance of forces in the
> traditional man's women's right, you walk into ballroom hold. The buzz
> step is taught like a left-foot propelled scooter. It can be practiced
> first without holding a partner to get the coordination and timing. I have
> never tried teaching the buzz step out of ring around the Rosie, but I
> think I will try it next week.
>
> Interesting discussion. Thanks,
>
> Bob Green
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
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>
>
--
Turn Observation into Data. Turn Data into Information
<http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Information>. Turn Information into
Knowledge. Turn Knowledge into Wisdom. Turn Wisdom into Beauty. Turn Beauty
into Love .
Dale said, "Don't teach advanced techniques to new dancers. Forget the buzz
step."
Sorry, but I must disagree most strongly.
In an average evening of contra dancing you will spend nearly thirty minutes
swinging (if the dances are in the Modern Urban Contra Dance style rather
than the older styles).
I think it is incredibly unfair to a newcomer to make them suffer for thirty
minutes rather than teach them how to swing. They can also cause a lot of
suffering to whomever they are swinging with if they have lousy technique.
I would not agree that it is advanced either. I strongly believe that a
couple of minutes teaching the basics of a buzz step swing will give
everyone a much more enjoyable evening. Some of them won't get it, but for
those that do it can completely change their experience of the evening.
Happy dancing,
John
John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362
http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent
