Don,
I too have called dances with a "hand cast" which essentially is a "gate".
I believe I heard/learned it somewhere along the line and once taught ppl
either go "i know this" "Oh! like a gate" or something similar. I too had
an English dancer tell me there was no such thing as a hand cast....I like
the term myself. I vote use it, I will continue to do so.
Mary Collins
“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 1:21 AM Don Veino via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> You may have seen my "Feeling Gravity's Pull" which I posted at the end of
> the recent Mad Robin teaching thread.
>
> In that dance, there's a move where partners are facing in side by side on
> the outside of the set (where the Gents have forward momentum and the
> Ladies neutral to backward momentum) and my intent was for them to rotate
> around their inside hand connection with the Gents going forward and Ladies
> backing up once around. (As opposed to the Gent walks a circle around the
> Lady.) So the net effect would be like a courtesy turn, in going around a
> central point between the dancers, just a little "wider."
>
> I believe the correct term for this would be "Hand Cast" but I had a
> dancer who was adamant about it being a "Gate" in ECD so when I posted the
> dance that's the term I used. I've again done some googling and found no
> ready reference to a "Hand Cast" in ECD and only the slightest in a contra
> context, yet the term sticks in my mind.
>
> What say ye? Is "Hand Cast" a thing and correct in this context?
>
> Thanks,
> Don
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>
"Hand cast" is definitely a thing I've heard, but only in the context of a couple down the middle and back and cast off (which was not at all unknown in the 80s when I started contra dancing (though more a feature of chestnut contras) , but hasn't turned up too much since. In contra, the actives casting off was definitely something they did with the inactives. You could do an eyes-only cast off or an arm around the waist cast off or a hand cast.) In any case, at the end of the cast off the actives had progressed and everybody was facing partner.
I think the hand cast tended to be 1s up the middle until between the 2s, who also face up and take the handy hand with the nearest 1. 2s backing up strongly as 1s go forward strongly, go 3/4 around until facing partner in progressed place.
The mechanics of a gate in English dance are pretty much the same - both people facing the same way, one moves as strongly back as the other forward around a pivot point at the hands.) [It seems to be that back in the 80s there wasn't as much emphasis on the equality of the turns; one person could be a gatepost and pivot in place while the other more or less orbited around them. That doesn't seem to be how it's taught now, so modern American English gates and contra hand casts are about the same.
In my personal idiolect, hand casts go with casting off, which implies somebody coming up the middle and symmetrical casting. (The gates in "The Bishop" are 360 degree hand casts, no question.)
Gates (in the 21st century) are more flexible. You can have asymmetric gates (in improper formation circle left once round and neighbors gate around with the ladies going forward and the gents backing up (as in Madeira Dream or Woodshed, or in contra in Susan Kevra's "Circle of Love" ); you can describe the moment in Bellamira when the 1s proper lead down, turn alone, lead up and turn as couple to finish improper facing down as a gate but nobody's casting anywhere; the opening moments of "Come Let's Be Merry" (1s face up, take inside hand, gent backs round and lady forward) are gates, but I don't think they're hand casts.
So according to me, the hand cast is an instance of the class of gate turns limited to being a cast off with hands. The class of gate turns includes many things that aren't hand casts.
If I'd been on the floor and you called the move you describe a hand cast, it would have taken me longer to understand it, but I wouldn't have tried to argue from the floor that you were calling it the wrong thing - that's just rude. If I were calling it I would have called it a gate.
I seem recall Sarah vanNorstrand at BACDS American dance week calling a dance with a symmetrical turn of this class that maybe could have legitimately been callend a hand cast and she called it a gate, so your dancer and I are not the only ones with this opinion.
-- Alan
On 10/7/18 10:20 PM, Don Veino via Callers wrote:
You may have seen my "Feeling Gravity's Pull" which I posted at the end of the recent Mad Robin teaching thread.
In that dance, there's a move where partners are facing in side by side on the outside of the set (where the Gents have forward momentum and the Ladies neutral to backward momentum) and my intent was for them to rotate around their inside hand connection with the Gents going forward and Ladies backing up once around. (As opposed to the Gent walks a circle around the Lady.) So the net effect would be like a courtesy turn, in going around a central point between the dancers, just a little "wider."
I believe the correct term for this would be "Hand Cast" but I had a dancer who was adamant about it being a "Gate" in ECD so when I posted the dance that's the term I used. I've again done some googling and found no ready reference to a "Hand Cast" in ECD and only the slightest in a contra context, yet the term sticks in my mind.
What say ye? Is "Hand Cast" a thing and correct in this context?
Thanks,
Don
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You may have seen my "Feeling Gravity's Pull" which I posted at the end of
the recent Mad Robin teaching thread.
In that dance, there's a move where partners are facing in side by side on
the outside of the set (where the Gents have forward momentum and the
Ladies neutral to backward momentum) and my intent was for them to rotate
around their inside hand connection with the Gents going forward and Ladies
backing up once around. (As opposed to the Gent walks a circle around the
Lady.) So the net effect would be like a courtesy turn, in going around a
central point between the dancers, just a little "wider."
I believe the correct term for this would be "Hand Cast" but I had a dancer
who was adamant about it being a "Gate" in ECD so when I posted the dance
that's the term I used. I've again done some googling and found no ready
reference to a "Hand Cast" in ECD and only the slightest in a contra
context, yet the term sticks in my mind.
What say ye? Is "Hand Cast" a thing and correct in this context?
Thanks,
Don
Hello Callers! Around the breakfast table at Penelope Weinberger’s house this morning, while on tour with Cloud Ten, I came up with this dance. Wrote it with the Sam Bartlett tune Penelope’s Cruise (also written for Penelope Weinberger) in mind. Wondering if it is already out there? Thanks for your input!
Jean Gorrindo
Breakfast at Penelope’s
by Jean Gorrindo
Contra/Improper/Easy-Int/Double Progression
A1 -----------
(8) Partner R-Hand Balance; Square Thru (pull by Partner with Right, Neighbor Left)
(8) Partner Balance & Box the Gnat
A2 -----------
(16) Neighbor balance and swing
B1 -----------
(8) Women allemande Right 1-1/2
(8) Partner swing
B2 -----------
(8) Long lines, forward and back
(8) Women's Chain
Thanks everyone for your replies!
I like the "slide" language approach and plan to work on that for next time.
I'm less fond of the sashay term in this application as, IMHO, contra
dancers don't know what it is. With groups that do a "Roll Away with a Half
Sashay" and even when callers prompt the full sequence, it usually comes
out more like "ROLL AWAY, with a half sashay" (almost inhaling the last
bit). In my experience, overall the language seems to have evolved to more
just saying who rolls whom and the rest is expected, just a part of the
"Roll Away". The instances of a separate Sashay are extremely rare, so
working to get them to understand the sashay itself would be another
incremental step.
BTW, that's why in this recent dance of mine I call the A2 move a slide:
*Feeling Gravity’s Pull – DI – Don Veino 20180710*
A1
Neighbor Gypsy, Swing
A2
Gents Swap Places (passing left) and face out
Gents Loop Left *WHILE* Ladies Slide Left+ (so each move into Partner’s
place)
(inside hands) Ladies Gate the Gents 1x
[+Alternative for the Ladies here: Walk forward on the slight left diagonal
to bounce back into the left hand position next to Partner Gent]
B1
Pass Through across, Partner Swing
B2
Gents pass Left for a Full Hey (EXCEPT Ladies Bounce Back the FIRST time)
More at http://veino.com/blog/?p=2179
Thanks,
Don
>
Hi All,
Chrissy Fowler of Belfast Flying Shoes fame has asked me to share with you
the email below. (She's on the SW organizers list but not the callers
list).
This resource she's created is pretty amazing ... enjoy!
Emily
===================================================
Hi Shared Weight Organizers List.
I'm writing to share a resource that I recently put together - Dancing in
Literature: A Partial Bibliography. It's posted on the Belfast Flying
Shoes blog (http://belfastflyingshoes.org/dancing-books-for-flying-shoes/)
and is meant to be widely disseminated. As noted on the front page of the
pdf, this project was supported by a dance education grant from the Maine
Arts Commission and by Belfast Flying Shoes, with help from many
contributors.
The word "partial" is key. This is by no means comprehensive, and I'm
making no recommendations about the literary value of any of the books.
But it's a resource, and I'm happy to imagine it being of use.
Cheers,
Chrissy Fowler
I wanted to have a dance where dancers did the dolphin hey figure with a neighbor rather than with a partner so that knowledge could be transferred from one person to another. I wrote this dance with that purpose. This dance borrows much from Seth Tepfer’s “Dolphin Yay!” dance and Andrea Nettleton’s “Porpoiseful Play”. Much thanks to both of these choreographers for their great dances.
Please take a look at this dance and let me know if you know it to be already written in this way. The slice in the beginning can be changed into a double slice (left diagonal forward to new neighbors, left diagonal back to next new neighbors) to make it a double progression, giving more dancers a chance to be the dolphin couple. I called this in Santa Barbara, CA, on 9/30, with the double slice. The dancers gave the dance a thumbs up. Click on these words for a video link. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoYYc4mKzrE>
Thanks,
Jacqui
Iluka Iluka
by Jacqui Grennan
Contra/Improper
A1 -----------
** BECKET ** ID Lady 1 and Gent 2 (AKA “top couple”)
(8) LEFT DIAGONAL - Slice (single progression) or double slice (double progression) to new Neighbors
(8) Lady 1 & Gent 2 (”top couple”) left shoulder ‘round 1-1/2 to face Lady 2
A2 -----------
(14) Dolphin Hey for 3 (6 passes) - Dolphins pass Lady 2 right, end by passing Lady 2 at the same place where the hey was started
(2) Lady 2 cross the set
B1 -----------
(16) Neighbor right shoulder ‘round/Swing
B2 -----------
(6) Circle left 3/4
(10) Partner Swing
It's on! Same venues as last time; same prices as advertised on the flyer.
Book your Early Bird tickets at http://eiff.org.uk/tickets.html
Colin Hume
Email colin(a)colinhume.com Web site http://colinhume.com
I don't recall seeing the dip-and-dive-across-the-set figure before
(choreographically equivalent to right and through), came up with this,
called it tonight and people seemed to have fun. I don't think it
registers as too gimmicky for hot contra dancers because they get the
twirls to face back in, and it goes well pretty early in the evening
DIPPING DOTS
Improper contra
Bouncy, jolly (Quebecois, polka?), or smooth and driving.
Alan Winston, 9/27/2018
A1: Neighbor balance and swing, face across
A2: Dip and dive across the set (couple containing #1gent arches first)
1-2: Cross over
3-4: All California twirl
5-6: Other couple arches, cross back
7-8: All California twirl, let go.
B1: Gents/Larks pass right shoulder to partner
Partners right shoulder round and swing on the ladies/ravens side
B2: Cl 3/4 (to progressed crossed over places)
Balance the ring
California Twirl
-- Alan
Sorry I was unclear. Because some contra callers say “mad robin” and some contra callers say “double mad robin,” meaning the same thing, and if you’ve learned it as “mad robin” and a new-to-you caller says “double mad robin,” you’ll think it’s a different figure.
> On Sep 28, 2018, at 8:51 AM, Folk Dance <ceilidh.caller.bob(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't think the distinction is necessary is it? "mad robin with your neighbour" is clearly distinct from "1s in the middle mad robin" so why add double mad robin? It'd be like calling most petronella's double petronellas because they have four people moving but the original petronella is for 1s only.
>
> Bob
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 1:29 PM Read Weaver via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
> It’s perhaps worth saying during the teaching “also called a double mad robin,” since dancers will sometimes hear that (from callers who know ECD). I’ve seen confusion on moderately experienced contra dancers’ faces (and feet) at the term “double mad robin” (thinking you go around twice, or that it involves more than 4 people) because they’ve only ever seen the figure with 4 people moving and they’ve only ever heard it called “mad robin.”
> (In the English country dance “Mad Robin,” only two people are moving in the eponymous figure.)
