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Re: [Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

by Chet Gray via Callers

Thanks for your commentary, Erik. In regards to the direction of balances before allemandes, I agree for the most part, but I see one aspect you left out: eye contact. I know not everybody uses eye contact when balancing towards someone, just as not everybody uses eye contact in swings or allemandes, but many folks do, and I know folks who find the eye contact first with one person, then with another during a right-left (or left-right) balance to be not only very satisfying, but an important social component of the figure. I have a tendency to look at dances in a very technical manner, when calling as well as when dancing or playing. I consciously try to let that go when it is unnecessary. When deciding on the wording to use for a dance, I try to consider whether it **really** matters to the momentum to specify what direction the dancers balance in, or to let them enjoy it as they will (coming from what may be a last bastion of hands-across-star-by-default, I do this for star grip as well). For a different point, if the balance before the allemande is by one hand only—instead of, say, from a wave—balancing toward-away-from the person often makes more physical sense than a half-supported forward-back. In regards to circles, circumference, and styling, I love the points you make. I enjoy when callers bring up (carefully selected) style notes for oft-ignored aspects of the dance, such as how radial distance affects speed (and, therefore timing) in not only circles, but allemandes and two-hand-turns. My recent crusade (to be a bit hyperbolic) has been "turning takes time" during down-the-halls. Time will tell how effective it is at alleviating line drift... On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:31 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > There’s been a discussion on balancing forward & back, or right & left, or > starting the balance left, then right when the balance precedes a left > allemande. And there’s been a discussion on the timing of circles. Like, > does a circle left ¾ take 6 or 8 beats? And how long should a circle left > 1¼ take? > > > > *Balances & Direction* > > > > I think it was Cammy Kaynor who told me he always teaches, “Balance in the > direction you’re going to go.” This, as stated, is obvious in a box > circulate: you’re going to go forward after the balance. It’s also obvious > in a Rory O’More type balance: the balance is right, then left making that > right slide or twirl gratifying. And it’s the one place where we do teach > the left then right balance, to make that slide/twirl left so cool. Now, > consider the allemande: > > > > The initial motion of an allemande is forward. The connection of arms is > what turns the forward motion into a circular motion. It is not very > satisfying to balance right—tension in the left arm—then left—no tension in > the left arm—then go into an allemande left. But a forward & back creates > some loss of tension in both arms, then tension in both arms, and you can > even favor tension in the left arm facilitating a wonderful launch into > that left allemande. When doing this there is no need to alter our “normal” > right then left balance. Thus I’ve strongly adopted the above rule: *Balance > in the Direction you’re going to go*. And remember: the initial direction > of an allemande—any allemande—is forward. Thus following this rule yields > satisfying results whether the balance precedes a left or a right > allemande. I try to bring this up whenever I teach a dance. > > > > *Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference* > > > > Back in the old days (when I started dancing in the 1980s), callers could > and would give styling points. We did dances where, in 8 beats, we might > allemande left once, dances with an 8 beat 1½ allemande, and dances, like > Hull’s Victory, where we’d make it twice around in 8 beats. Some of us were > taught that we could get a good connection and give good weight by varying > the circumference of the circle we traveled. Keep arms wide, travel a > larger circle, and once around in 8 beats feels great! Pull in close, and > you can make it around twice in 8 beats. > > > > At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing > someone is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but > let dancers do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring > balance, California twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4. > > > > It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and > make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware > dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle > left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer. > Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there > early… > > > > I do agree that a circle left 1¼ in 8 beats does not work well. So, make > the circle a bit bigger and turn it into a zesty 12 beats. > > > > Erik Hoffman > > Oakland, CA > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

8 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

by Bob Isaacs via Callers

Hi All: While I appreciate Jack's comments about the chain/B&S progression, that is more of a teaching issue than a choreographic one. More important is how much assistance those in the ladies role can get from their partner in B2b. In a chain they can get that from the joined hands in the long lines. But for the allemande L they need to let go from their partner and are on their own. That help would occur if Luke's dance finished with a ladies allemande R 1 1/2, but that would not flow as well into the next neighbor dosido. So I'll stick with Nice Combo/Troxler's on the Loose/Forgotten Treasure - Bob ________________________________ From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Jack Mitchell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2016 10:27 PM To: Linda Leslie; Luke Donforth Cc: Callers(a)Lists.Sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists? Though I know that there are lots of traditional dances with a ladies chain (turn away) new N...., I am really not crazy about them. Ok....I'll admit it, I actively dislike them. Particularly for new dancers, and particularly going to a discrete move like a balance. It requires the lady to extricate themselves from a previous neighbor (who should certainly not twirl and forget, but frequently does), and requires the (polite) gent to turn away from their direction of progression to get new ladies pointed in the right direction at the end of the courtesy turn before the gent can progress (and for that matter, requires the courtesy turn to be either done more quickly, or otherwise to be cut short to get everyone going in the right direction. (don't even get me started on dances that have a butterfly whirl -> turn away to a new neighbor). (There are dances -- like Punctuated Raindrops -- that have that progression, that I will still call a) because they're great dances other than that and b) because the timing of the progression isn't discrete -- if you're late to start the allemande L, it's ok, the timing will work out in the wash.) </rant> The ladies allemande L progression, 1) puts the ladies in a bit more control, 2) allows the caller to point out where they're going, and who they're going to and 3) leaves a free hand available to reach out to the new neighbor. Even with similarities in the rest of the dance, I think that is really enough to make it a distinct (and a more accessible) dance from the ones mentioned. Jack On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:53 PM Linda Leslie via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain. Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She begins the dance with a N B&S, and ends it with a chain as well. Linda On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: > Hello all, > > I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. > > I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? > > Type: Contra > Formation: Duple-Improper > > A1 ----------- > (8) Neighbor Do-si-do > (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall > A2 ----------- > (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) > (8) Return and Bend the line > B1 ----------- > (6) Circle Left 3/4 > (10) Partner swing > B2 ----------- > (8) Long lines, forward and back > (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 > > The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. > > I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. > > Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net -- Jack Mitchell Durham, NC

8 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

by Linda Leslie via Callers

This dance is virtually the same as Troxler’s on the Loose, by Chris Ricciotti. The only difference in Chris’ dance is that the final move is a ladies chain. Beth Parkes also wrote a dance that is mostly the same: Forgotten treasure. She begins the dance with a N B&S, and ends it with a chain as well. Linda On Aug 21, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Luke Donforth via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hello all, > > I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. > > I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? > > Type: Contra > Formation: Duple-Improper > > A1 ----------- > (8) Neighbor Do-si-do > (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall > A2 ----------- > (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) > (8) Return and Bend the line > B1 ----------- > (6) Circle Left 3/4 > (10) Partner swing > B2 ----------- > (8) Long lines, forward and back > (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 > > The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. > > I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. > > Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Surely this already exists?

by Luke Donforth via Callers

Excuse me, that B1 is Partner Swing, not Partner Neighbor. (Thank you David Harding for catching my copy/paste error) A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner swing B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2

8 years, 4 months

[Callers] Surely this already exists?

by Luke Donforth via Callers

Hello all, I was trying to find an easy and accessible dance, a real glossary basic contra. I feel like this must already exist, but I'm not finding it in my notes. Someone got a prior? Type: Contra Formation: Duple-Improper A1 ----------- (8) Neighbor Do-si-do (8) Neighbor swing, end facing down the hall A2 ----------- (8) Down the hall, four in line (turn as couples) (8) Return and Bend the line B1 ----------- (6) Circle Left 3/4 (10) Partner neighbor B2 ----------- (8) Long lines, forward and back (8) Women allemande Left 1-1/2 The B2 could be W DSD 1.5, although I like the allemande for the connection for brand new dancers. I specifically chose the left hand to leave the women facing towards their new neighbor. I know it's really close to a bunch of other stuff. B2 could be C L 3/4, balance and pass through; or chain to left hand star à la The Nice Combination; etc. Barring it already having been named by someone else, I'm going to call it "Having Fun with PAM" to keep track of it in my box; since I just got back from the fabulous PAMFest (Peacham Acoustic Music Festival). Thanks.

8 years, 4 months

[Callers] On Balances, Box circulates, Allemandes, Circles & Timing

by Erik Hoffman via Callers

There’s been a discussion on balancing forward & back, or right & left, or starting the balance left, then right when the balance precedes a left allemande. And there’s been a discussion on the timing of circles. Like, does a circle left ¾ take 6 or 8 beats? And how long should a circle left 1¼ take? Balances & Direction I think it was Cammy Kaynor who told me he always teaches, “Balance in the direction you’re going to go.” This, as stated, is obvious in a box circulate: you’re going to go forward after the balance. It’s also obvious in a Rory O’More type balance: the balance is right, then left making that right slide or twirl gratifying. And it’s the one place where we do teach the left then right balance, to make that slide/twirl left so cool. Now, consider the allemande: The initial motion of an allemande is forward. The connection of arms is what turns the forward motion into a circular motion. It is not very satisfying to balance right—tension in the left arm—then left—no tension in the left arm—then go into an allemande left. But a forward & back creates some loss of tension in both arms, then tension in both arms, and you can even favor tension in the left arm facilitating a wonderful launch into that left allemande. When doing this there is no need to alter our “normal” right then left balance. Thus I’ve strongly adopted the above rule: Balance in the Direction you’re going to go. And remember: the initial direction of an allemande—any allemande—is forward. Thus following this rule yields satisfying results whether the balance precedes a left or a right allemande. I try to bring this up whenever I teach a dance. Circles, Allemandes, & Circumference Back in the old days (when I started dancing in the 1980s), callers could and would give styling points. We did dances where, in 8 beats, we might allemande left once, dances with an 8 beat 1½ allemande, and dances, like Hull’s Victory, where we’d make it twice around in 8 beats. Some of us were taught that we could get a good connection and give good weight by varying the circumference of the circle we traveled. Keep arms wide, travel a larger circle, and once around in 8 beats feels great! Pull in close, and you can make it around twice in 8 beats. At times there has been discussion about how a circle left ¾, swing someone is a 6, then 10 beat set of figures. I think of it as 8 & 8, but let dancers do whatever they want. Then we have a circle left ¾, ring balance, California twirl. The timing of this is definitely 8, 4, 4. It is easy to have a good connection, give good weight in a circle ¾, and make it last 6 or 8 beats by expanding or contracting the circle. Aware dancers will adjust to make the move fit the timing of the dance. Circle left ¾ into a balance: make the circle bigger so the path is a bit longer. Want that extra two beats of swing? Contract the circle, and get there early… I do agree that a circle left 1¼ in 8 beats does not work well. So, make the circle a bit bigger and turn it into a zesty 12 beats. Erik Hoffman Oakland, CA

8 years, 4 months

[Callers] Looking for notes

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

Anybody have Marty Fager's "Balance and Bounce" handy? Many thanks, Kalia Kliban

8 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Mad Orbin, a new dance

by Linda Leslie via Callers

Thanks for mentioning the personal preference for Give & Take, Ron! The timing does seem to vary. But Larry Jennings, originator of the move, actually preferred two steps forward, two steps back with your Partner, and then a 12 count swing. Larry liked his dancing “Zesty”! Linda On Aug 20, 2016, at 2:35 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > This is a nice dance. > > I think I'll call it tonight. > > (For timing, I just mark down give and take to a swing as 16 beats, but timing for that move is a personal preference, I believe). > > Best, > Ron Blechner > > > On Aug 19, 2016 9:56 PM, "QuiAnn2 via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hi, all! > > Thanks to all those who responded about this dance. Both Bob Isaacs and Chris Page don’t recognize the dance as already written so I think we’re good to go. Would love to hear how it goes if you decide to call it. The title is not a typo. The 2nd word is a play on words as a combination of robin+orbit. > > I changed the choreography slightly in B1. I teach the “give and take” as a ring balance, followed by the ladies drawing their Partner across the set. As such, I’ve changed the timing to (4) and (12) rather than how I had it originally as (8) and (8). That was just an oversight on my part when I originally posted the dance. > > Jacqui Grennan > > > > Mad Orbin > by Jacqui Grennan > Contra/Improper > > A1 ----------- > (4) N RH Balance > (4) Box the gnat > (8) Mad Robin, gents in front > A2 ----------- > (8) Gents allemande Left 1-1/2 > meanwhile ladies orbit CW > (8) N Sw > B1 ----------- > (4) Ladies give & take their P (ring balance) > (12) P Sw > B2 ----------- > (6, 2) Circle left 3/4, pass thru > (8) Next N DSD > >> On Aug 15, 2016, at 11:09 AM, QuiAnn2 <quiann2(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, all, >>> >>> I wrote a dance recently and called it over the weekend and it was well received. Would like to see if anyone knows if it’s already written. Thanks. >>> >>> Jacqui Grennan >>> >>> >>> Mad Orbin >>> by Jacqui Grennan, 8/13/16 >>> Contra/Improper >>> >>> A1 ----------- >>> (4) N RH Balance >>> (4) Box the gnat >>> (8) Mad Robin, gents in front >>> A2 ----------- >>> (8) Gents allemande Left 1-1/2 >>> meanwhile ladies orbit CW >>> (8) N Sw >>> B1 ----------- >>> (8) Ladies give & take their P >>> (8) P Sw >>> B2 ----------- >>> (6, 2) Circle left 3/4, pass thru >>> (8) Next N DSD >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 4 months

[Callers] New dance, already written?

by QuiAnn2 via Callers

> Hi, all, > > I wrote a dance recently and called it over the weekend and it was well received. Would like to see if anyone knows if it’s already written. Thanks. > > Jacqui Grennan > > > Mad Orbin > by Jacqui Grennan, 8/13/16 > Contra/Improper > > A1 ----------- > (4) N RH Balance > (4) Box the gnat > (8) Mad Robin, gents in front > A2 ----------- > (8) Gents allemande Left 1-1/2 > meanwhile ladies orbit CW > (8) N Sw > B1 ----------- > (8) Ladies give & take their P > (8) P Sw > B2 ----------- > (6, 2) Circle left 3/4, pass thru > (8) Next N DSD > >

8 years, 4 months

Re: [Callers] Is this dance already written?

by Neal Schlein via Callers

"...the same hey can be different numbers of passes in different heys." I think there is some double-speak in there. Peace is war, hate is love, difference is the same. I refuse to bow to Big Brother! ;-) I also refuse to accept imprecision in dance directions. "Do a 15/16ths hey for four, ending with the homogeneous sapien in the nominally gent-gendered role on the inside of the set looking leftward at a 49-degree angle....)" On Aug 15, 2016 3:55 PM, "Ron Blechner" <contraron(a)gmail.com> wrote: Good points from Neal and Bev. I'm curious now about the timing of the ladies casting over right shoulder and entering the hey. It does seem like it would better fit the music. RE: 3/8ths hey - there's a ton of dances with 3/8 hey called as half, as the same hey can be different number of passes in different heys. Anyway, now I really want to dance a star-cast-hey transition... :) Ron On Aug 11, 2016 3:57 PM, "Neal Schlein via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: Isn't it actually a 3/8ths hey? ...Which is somewhat tricky to say: Three Eights Hey For Four. Lots of numbers in there. Good enough reason to find another explanation. ;-) What I'm seeing about not simply writing it out as a hey is that the star is causing the ladies to move forward into the men's position. From a static perspective it is definitely a partial hey, but the women's momentum will want to carry them too far forward and it'll become mush for anyone not paying attention. Turning back to the right is nice flow, and to me there's nothing wrong with writing things like that into the dance. For example, I have long used a dance which cues the ladies to turn AWAY from a star and swing the man behind them. Technically it is just a u-turn, but every time I use that phrase three quarters of the ladies will turn TOWARD the star (for a variety of reasons, including partner "assistance"). It makes me cringe, because the dance is so much nicer if they turn the other direction. Neal _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

8 years, 4 months

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