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Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Linda S. Mrosko via Callers

We have had similar problems with a small number of dancers, mostly men. One suffered a stroke and was trying to dance to get himself back in shape, but he was extremely slow, confused and invariably always wanted to dance with newcomers, which confused them. As experienced dancers, we agreed to keep him busy dancing with us only and that worked most of the time. We have another gent who is very, very book smart, but not conceptually smart. After putting up with him dancing every dance with his girlfriend who was also always confused, he finally confessed to the group that he needed to know what the move after the swing was to keep him timely. Viola! Now that we know to give him more time to concentrate on the move after a swing, he is a much improved dancer. On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 9:40 PM, Meg Dedolph via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > I've run into dancers as a caller and on the floor who fit this > description - men and women both. Most of the time the problem seems to be > that they can't get where they need to be on time, or they end a figure > facing the wrong direction. > But here's something that I learned in retrospect from an evening spent > calling a small community dance with a pair of women who were moving too > slowly for the music and who kept dancing together. I'd call a dance and > identify these problems and think to myself, "Pick a different dance for > the next one with a little more slop time in it and more figures where you > are holding hands with someone and not on your own, or maybe an uneven > dance." So I'd do that, but then I would notice that the women, who had > gotten tired during the previous dance, had decided to sit out the dance > that I'd picked to best meet their needs on the floor and prevent > breakdowns! > So then I'd go back to my original plan for the *next* dance, but there > they'd be, back up on their feet, having rested! > It took me an embarrassingly long time to figure out the pattern. Now I > know to watch for folks who had a hard time during one dance choosing to > sit out the next and regroup. > But, y'know, as soon as I think I have something figured out about > dancers, humankind throws me a curve ball. > Meg > > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:41 PM Winston, Alan P. via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> I've seen some responses on the organizers list and here, and I've >> thought about the persistent rock-in-the-stream dancer we had in Berkeley >> (who did, eventually, start modifying the dances so he could get where he >> needed on time, and who indeed various women would ask to dance or he'd be >> asking the new young women dancers and confusing them horribly). >> >> One thing I'm noticing from the similar stories and responses is that all >> the rocks in the stream I'm hearing about are male, and it's falling on >> experienced women dancers to save the dance from them. >> >> Is this just a problem with small sample sizes? Has anyone encountered >> this kind of dancer, the kind who really structurally can't ever be good at >> it, spreads confusion, and yet keeps coming back, in female form? >> >> -- Alan >> >> >> >> >> On 3/6/2017 5:24 PM, Mary Collins via Callers wrote: >> >> We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and >> ear-mind process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him >> driving). We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers >> pair with this gentleman. Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and >> often is at the end of the line, after the walk through. When you dance >> with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where >> he needs to be. This is how we have dealt with our own issue. >> >> In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop >> where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience (i.e. >> the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter swing. >> Play up the better never than late thing and talk about flourishes and how >> they are not really a necessary part of the dance experience. >> >> the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good. >> >> Good luck Marie! >> >> Mary in Buffalo >> >> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning >> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown >> >> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad >> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately >> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very >> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also >> often does not remember what is coming next. >> We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively >> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers >> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant >> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new >> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw >> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around >> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. >> A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite >> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, >> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers >> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? >> Thank you >> Marie >> ContraMontreal >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing listCallers@lists.sharedweight.nethttp://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > -- *Looking forward,Linda S. Mrosko* *102 Mitchell Drive* *Temple, Texas 76501* *(903) 292-3713 (Cell)* *(903) 603-9955 (Skype)* *contradancetx.com <http://www.contradancetx.com>* *www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy* <http://www.zazzle.com/fuzzycozy*> (Dance buttons, t-shirts, & more)*

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

by Bob Isaacs via Callers

Yoyo and All: I wrote that sequence on 8/6/10, and call it Hook, Line, and Sinker. At the time I looked around and didn't find it in the usual sources, but it's possible someone else preceded me with it. Bob ________________________________ From: Callers <callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of Yoyo Zhou via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 1:42:48 PM To: Caller's discussion list Subject: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance? Hi callers, I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra Madre last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does anyone have a title and author for it? NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it seemed to go fine. A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2 A2: full hey, pass P right B1: P balance, swing B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl Thanks, Yoyo Zhou

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Mary Collins via Callers

We have a dancer here in Buffalo that has a hard time hearing and ear-mind process-motor response time is very very slow. (I worry about him driving). We have a loose house rule that the regular good lady dancers pair with this gentleman. Otherwise he will ask newbies to dance, and often is at the end of the line, after the walk through. When you dance with him you have to call to him through the dance and guide him to where he needs to be. This is how we have dealt with our own issue. In your case, you might want to invite him to your beginner's workshop where you can address some of the issues you have seen him experience (i.e. the 1/2 alemande instead of the 1 1/2 of the call, or a shorter swing. Play up the better never than late thing and talk about flourishes and how they are not really a necessary part of the dance experience. the others have mentioned other ideas that are really good. Good luck Marie! Mary in Buffalo “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hi everyone, > Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad > enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately > challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very > stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also > often does not remember what is coming next. > We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively > impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers > will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant > experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new > dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw > them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around > to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. > A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite > accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, > does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers > still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? > Thank you > Marie > ContraMontreal > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > >

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Meg Dedolph via Callers

A friend of mine with autistic kids shared something with me that she learned from her kids' therapist: some people have a hard time taking verbal direction for physical activity and do better by seeing a demonstration. So sometimes when I have a dancer on the floor who seems really confused, I think about this idea. Your mileage may vary. Anyway. Good luck. Meg in Chicago On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 4:58 PM Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Thanks April and everyone else, this is giving me a lot of ideas to think > about. > To answer your question, he does not seem to understand the "damage" he's > sometimes leaving in his wake, he might not realize the importance of being > on time to help the other dancers. If anyone has a gentle way to suggest to > let him understand that it would be appreciated. But once we do that, I > like the suggestion to include him in discussions about how to help and > would like to do it. > > Unfortunately, this is a fairly small community with lots of new dancers > every time, so I don't think we have 12 experienced female dancers, let > alone 12 willing to dance with him and I'm not sure he's willing to dance > with other men. I might not be the only one who is struggling to have > empathy because I do not want to dance with him twice (he also smells > really bad and doesn't always control the strength with which he grips my > hand, although that might be getting better). Do you think it's better to > concentrate our efforts at the beginning of the evening so new dancers can > get used to contra, or at the end of the evening when dances are usually a > little more complicated? > > Also, trying to articulate the problem a little better: he can swing > reasonably, and I think circles and stars are ok if the music is not too > fast. But I think that sometimes he does the wrong thing with confidence > which throws people off if he doesn't have a firm, experienced partner to > hold him back. > > Thanks all, I already have lots of material to think about, but keep it > coming! > Marie > ContraMontreal > > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 5:30 PM, April Blum via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > You want to avoid letting him pair up with a new dancer, so you might > indeed want to have a confidential chat with the regular ladies who are > also good leads, and see if they are willing to take turns dancing with him. > Some techniques for his partners: Walk the swing and stop early to face > in. Turn 1.5 allemandes into half allemandes or pull bys. Turn free moves > into "with hands" moves where possible. Ask your caller to suggest that > everyone try a hey with hands if the timing is tight. Or turn a hey for > four into a hey for three, with you and he acting as a unit. That works for > half heys as well. Just cross the set together, dodging the other two > dancers. If he's hopelessly behind each time through, consider skipping B2 > and set up for the next repetition. Maybe concentrate on getting him > comfortable with the first part of the sequence. > Is he aware of his "rock in the stream of the dance" status? The answer to > this might affect how much adaptation he will accept. > Do keep in mind that it takes a certain amount of courage to try something > new and challenging, particularly as an individual rather than a couple. > And one or more of the organizers should chat with him at the break. It > would be useful to find out if he has a physical challenge. On Mar 6, 2017 > 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad > enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately > challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very > stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also > often does not remember what is coming next. > > We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively > impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers > will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant > experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new > dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw > them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around > to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. > > A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was > quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar > troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other > dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? > > Thank you > > Marie > > ContraMontreal > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by April Blum via Callers

You want to avoid letting him pair up with a new dancer, so you might indeed want to have a confidential chat with the regular ladies who are also good leads, and see if they are willing to take turns dancing with him. Some techniques for his partners: Walk the swing and stop early to face in. Turn 1.5 allemandes into half allemandes or pull bys. Turn free moves into "with hands" moves where possible. Ask your caller to suggest that everyone try a hey with hands if the timing is tight. Or turn a hey for four into a hey for three, with you and he acting as a unit. That works for half heys as well. Just cross the set together, dodging the other two dancers. If he's hopelessly behind each time through, consider skipping B2 and set up for the next repetition. Maybe concentrate on getting him comfortable with the first part of the sequence. Is he aware of his "rock in the stream of the dance" status? The answer to this might affect how much adaptation he will accept. Do keep in mind that it takes a certain amount of courage to try something new and challenging, particularly as an individual rather than a couple. And one or more of the organizers should chat with him at the break. It would be useful to find out if he has a physical challenge. On Mar 6, 2017 3:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > Hi everyone, > Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember what is coming next. > We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. > A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? > Thank you > Marie > ContraMontreal

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Donna Hunt via Callers

You might consider including the new dancer into your discussion. He "seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly", I think he might be the best one to tell you the things that he has difficulty with and then you can brainstorm how best to assist him. Having someone in the discussion who is good a modifying the dance would be great. Certainly doing 1/2 instead of 1 1/2 for Allemandes, down the hall in small steps and turning sooner if possible, circling using that dancer as a "pivot point" so the other dancers circle around him, heys can be shortened or use hands to give leverage. You might ask this dancer to sit out a few dances an evening citing his challenges and then coordinate with the caller for the evening planning those dances that include full stars progressing to full stars or other moves that require a full count piece. My guess is that if he will work with you (and you want him to remain a member of the community) then brainstorming and giving tips from the mic will help the community adapt to include him. Donna Hunt -----Original Message----- From: Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Sent: Mon, Mar 6, 2017 3:17 pm Subject: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer? Hi everyone, Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember what is coming next. We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? Thank you Marie ContraMontreal _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Kalia Kliban via Callers

On 3/6/2017 12:13 PM, Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers wrote: > Hi everyone, > Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad > enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately > challenging. <snip> > I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar > troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other > dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? > Thank you > Marie > ContraMontreal This is a really tough issue. A lot, for me, would depend on the attitude of the dancer. Does he really love it? Does he engage in a friendly and appropriate way with the rest of the group? Good attitude and motivation can mitigate _some_ of the problems. Are there dance communities with actual policy about dancers who are problematic not because of behavior but because of skill level? I'd be curious myself to hear how others have dealt with this. There do seem to be some folks who the regular teaching just doesn't reach, but every now and again those folks, through sheer persistence and enthusiasm, can finally get it. Not everyone's learning curve is the same. If there's a particular move (or moves) that's consistently losing him, perhaps a set of carefully chosen, diplomatic dance angels could do some slow and thorough coaching, off the dance floor. The physical difficulties sound like less of a barrier than the issues with processing instruction, and it's possible that some well-crafted individual attention could get him over the hump into being a more functional member of your dance community. Kalia Kliban (ever optimistic)

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] Do you recognize this dance?

by Jerome Grisanti via Callers

Yoyo, I don't know if such a sequence already exists, but your point about the awkward transition had me wondering about replacing your B2 with: Balance the ring, pass through, turn alone. Star left 3/4 (three quarters). Jerome On Monday, March 6, 2017, Yoyo Zhou via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Hi callers, > > I improvised this dance inspired by James Hutson's Treasure of the Sierra > Madre last night, but it seems like it could have been written before. Does > anyone have a title and author for it? > > NB. The B2->A1 transition has slightly awkward hands for the gents, but it > seemed to go fine. > > A1: N balance, box the gnat; gents allemande left 1+1/2 > A2: full hey, pass P right > B1: P balance, swing > B2: circle left 3/4; balance ring, P CA twirl > > Thanks, > Yoyo Zhou > > -- Jerome Grisanti 660-528-0858 http://www.jeromegrisanti.com "Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

7 years, 10 months

[Callers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?

by Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers

Hi everyone, Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also often does not remember what is coming next. We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude. A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles, does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer? Thank you Marie ContraMontreal

7 years, 10 months

Re: [Callers] Does this dance already exist?

by Ric Goldman - Letsdance via Callers

Hi Seth, I don't recall an exact match, but it's similar to Big Easy by Becky Hill: A1 N B+S A2 LLFB; Ladies alle R 1.5 B1 P B+S B2 Cir L 3/4; Bal ring, pass thru or CJ's Delight by Amy Kahn: A1 N B+S A2 LLFB; Ladies alle R 1.5 B1 P Gypsy+Sw B2 Ps promenade CCW; Cal Twirl and very close to Heritage Reel by Tony Parkes: A1 N B+S A2 LLFB; Gents alle L 1.5 B1 P B+S B2 Half promenade; ladies chain Hope this helps. Thanx, Ric Goldman letsdance(a)rgoldman.org From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Tepfer, Seth via Callers Sent: Monday, March 06, 2017 10:52 AM To: Caller's discussion list <callers(a)sharedweight.net> Subject: [Callers] Does this dance already exist? A1: N B&Sw A2: LLFB; Gents Allemande L 1.5 B1: P B&Sw B2: P promenade across; Circle Left 3/4, N pull by It seems so obvious that someone must have written it before. Seth Tepfer Director of Administrative Computing Oxford College 770-784-8487 seth.tepfer(a)emory.edu <mailto:seth.tepfer@emory.edu> Use AskIT for fastest response: Oxford.emory.edu/AskIT <https://app.oxford.emory.edu/WebApps/OCIT/forms/AskIT/index.cfm> _____ This e-mail message (including any attachments) is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this message (including any attachments) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply e-mail message and destroy all copies of the original message (including attachments).

7 years, 10 months

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