[Musicians] Danceability of versions of the same tune (Sleepy-Eyed Joe)

[jim saxe]

First, I agree that of the "Sleepy Eyed Joe" recordings I've cited, the Enloe version is the odd one out in terms of basic melody.  Besides the transcription Erik cited in _Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory_, there's a transcription of Enloe's version in the Mel Bay book _Ozark Fiddle Music_, by Drew Beisswenger:

https://books.google.com/books?id=2vm8OaHq_WcC&pg=PA30&lpg=PA30&dq=%22sleepy+eyed+joe%22+enloe&source=bl&ots=vCRm4poWy-&sig=VfhzvlIp2s9LDMQWdz23EKU1G5A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj6pYT3y__JAhUM9WMKHfoQCHIQ6AEIQDAH#v=onepage&q=%22sleepy%20eyed%20joe%22%20enloe&f=false

Beisswenger also cites yet another transcription published by Stacy Phillips.

I found a transcription of the tune played by Foghorn here:

     https://www.mne.psu.edu/lamancusa/tunes.html
         Linked from a large collection of tunes at
         https://www.mne.psu.edu/lamancusa/tunes.html

Also, while composing this message I discovered that I botched an earlier attempt to post a link to a video of Foghorn playing "Sleepy Eyed Joe" at Malloy's Pub and instead posted a duplicate link to the version from the _Weiser Sunrise_ album.  Here's the correct link:

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDlpjkhJ0To

(Note that the attribution of the tune to Blake appears to be in error.)

Next, I agree with Erik and Meg that solid rhythmic backup can contribute a lot to danceability.  That said, when I listen to the two Norman Blake versions

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AntWbzdq60
         Solo guitar

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rek6WqLfUVI
         Mandolin (with backup, and alternating melodic lead
         with a fiddler)

it seems to me that his playing on the second version is somehow more danceable than on the first version, even without the backup.  Of course, I don't have a multi-track studio recording to experiment with, and it may be that I can't trust myself to listen to a version with backup and imagine it without backup.  Still, that's how it seems to me.  I'd like to know what anyone else thinks about it.  And as I said in an earlier message, you might want to try listening to both Blake versions with the YouTube playback speed set to 1.25.

--Jim

> On Sep 27, 2019, at 11:01 AM, Erik Hoffman via Musicians <musicians at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> 
> First, the tune played by Norman Blake as well as the Sleepy Eyed Joe by Foghorn is not the same tune as the one played by Lyman Enloe. There is a transcription of the tune Lyman plays called Sleepy Joe in R. P. Christeson's "Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory." It's Hoedown #24 in book one.
> https://www.amazon.com/Old-Time-Fiddlers-Repertory-Traditional-Tunes/dp/0826204392
> 
> The guitar version in Norman Blake's video misses the drive most of us strive for when playing for dances. It's not that a solo guitar can't do it, but it's missing the distinctive beat markers. The other versions all have backup instruments pushing the drive along...
> 
> ~Erik Hoffman 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Musicians <musicians-bounces at lists.sharedweight.net> On Behalf Of jim saxe via Musicians
> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 7:56 PM
> To: musicians at sharedweight.net
> Subject: Re: [Musicians] Danceability of versions of the same tune (Sleepy-Eyed Joe)
> 
> In my message of earlier today, I offered links to four renditions of "Sleepy Eyed Joe", including this one from Foghorn's out-of-print _Weiser Sunrise_ album:
> 
>    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2RI8FlwvQg     
>    Foghorn Stringband
>    ~134 BPM
> 
> Thanks to Meg Dedolph for an off-list message pointing out that the aforesaid video has been diasbled since I first posted a link to it in 2015 and for calling my attention to a video on the Westport Folk & Bluegrass Festival's channel of a live performance by Foghorn at Matt Molloy's Pub, Bridge Street, Westport, County Mayo, Ireland in 2016:
> 
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd_q8vaQuI0
>     Foghorn Stringband
>     ~137-138 BPM
> 
> I've also found that the version from the _Weiser Sunrise_ album is currently available here:
> 
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd_q8vaQuI0
> 
> The title and description of the Westport video attribute the tune to Norman Blake, but as I said in the postscript to my earlier message, notes accompanying one of Blake's CDs attribute the tune to one Ellis Hall.  I haven't heard Hall's 1952 78 RPM recording of the tune, so I can't say how it compares to any of the others I've mentioned.  Using Google Advanced Book Search, I found a 1952 copyright catalog with a listing attributing "Sleepy Eyed Joe" to Ellis John Hall.  Whether Hall was claiming authorship of the tune itself or just of his performance/arrangement is more than I can say for certain, but I didn't find any older references to "Sleepy Eyed Joe" as a tune name.
> 
> --Jim
> 
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