[Callers] Problem dancers / Crying Wolf

Thu Sep 10 11:14:02 PDT 2015

Great point, thanks Lisa.

On Thursday, September 10, 2015, Lisa Greenleaf via Callers <
callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Everyone-
>
> I am cringing every time I read the word victim.  VIctim implies
> powerlessness, so why not use the word dancer and encourage
> self-empowerment?
>
> Sometimes dancers approach me because I am an official organizer, and
> other times friends of the person approach me because they know I might be
> able to help. My first question around complaints is always, “Did you talk
> with the person whose behavior bothered you?” And then I model an “I”
> statement for them: “I don’t like that,” “I don’t feel comfortable dancing
> with you because I don’t like to be twirled,” etc.
>
> Of course, most people find it difficult to talk directly to the person
> disturbing them, but it’s still worth encouraging, especially if you show
> them how to do it.  You are teaching them a real-world skill that they can
> use outside of the dance.
>
> When a dancer approaches me with a complaint, I don’t see them as a victim
> who needs rescuing.   For one thing, I don’t know the real situation until
> I have heard both sides of the story. Yes, the situation may expand to a
> larger problem, but even then I don’t change “dancer” (or more
> specifically, the name of the person) to “victim.”
>
> Lisa
>
>
> > On Sep 9, 2015, at 8:02 PM, Yoyo Zhou via Callers <
> callers at lists.sharedweight.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >
> > Taking you at face value: if you have a systemic problem, you need a
> > policy. If you have a problem with one person, you need to come to
> > terms with that person. I'm not sure if it's just the board, or if
> > other dancers also have issues with her. But if you seek mediation,
> > take notes on your interactions so you have evidence to back yourself
> > up.
> >
> >
> > Now, I think the last thing you need is a policy requiring victims to
> > speak up. It's counterproductive to making a safe dance space.  (Let's
> > discuss that on the other thread.)
> >
> > Let's say I'm new to your dance and I have a bad experience with
> > someone. What do I do? I might complain about it to my friends who
> > convinced me to come. I might just avoid that person. I might just go
> > home dissatisfied. One of the last things I might do is complain to
> > the management (and I might view that woman as an extension thereof),
> > because who knows if they'll just shrug it off and not take me
> > seriously?
> >
> >
> > Also, you wrote, "it seems to me that she's committing violence." No,
> > I disagree. This totally cheapens the meaning of "violence". What
> > words do you use for when punches are actually thrown? (It's happened
> > at a dance here.)
> >
> > Yoyo Zhou
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 7:42 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers
> > <callers at lists.sharedweight.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> Maybe. Maybe not. My point was that we should be very, very careful
> about
> >> making a definitive statement about something being "just an
> accusation",
> >> especially when in your example, there was a second problem - even if
> it was
> >> a year earlier.
> >>
> >> On Sep 9, 2015 10:39 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers"
> >> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Appreciate that.  Don't think the "where there's smoke there's fire"
> issue
> >>> applies here, though.  It would if there were several different women
> >>> complaining about one man...
> >>>
> >>> --------------------
> >>> Lindsay Morris
> >>> CEO, TSMworks
> >>> Tel. 1-859-539-9900
> >>> lindsay at tsmworks.com <javascript:;>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:34 AM, Ron Blechner <contraron at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Lindsay,
> >>>>
> >>>> I realize this is a tricky topic, so apologies in advance if my
> brevity
> >>>> comes off as bruskness.
> >>>>
> >>>> These two suggestions work for Amherst Contra.
> >>>>
> >>>> As a proxy complaint comes in, a board member would seek out the
> source.
> >>>> Anonymous complaints are permitted, and a high level of ensuring that
> we ask
> >>>> open-ended questions, and not leading questions.
> >>>>
> >>>> We also wear board member buttons at dances and make regular
> >>>> announcements about us being available for any reason. Usually 4-7
> members
> >>>> of our board attend any dance.
> >>>>
> >>>> You might speak privately to Will Loving, our lead organizer, if
> you're
> >>>> interested in more specifics.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would also caution about making such definitive statements as "just
> an
> >>>> accusation". In my experience, where there's smoke, there's fire. For
> every
> >>>> accusation, there's five people who are too uncomfortable to speak up.
> >>>>
> >>>> That said, I have seen the success of proactive addressing of issues.
> The
> >>>> biggest benefit is simple:
> >>>>
> >>>> Address it early when it's small, and not a huge deal. Maybe it's a
> >>>> simple misunderstanding. Maybe the person needed a clear boundary
> drawn. But
> >>>> wait until there's a pile of complaints, and you've already lost
> dancers and
> >>>> the resolution will need to be more severe for the offender.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Ron Blechner
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sep 9, 2015 10:08 AM, "Lindsay Morris via Callers"
> >>>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris Weiler's Positive Solutions on dealing with problem dancers,
> and
> >>>>> the CDU Policy are thoughtful and useful documents.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We have a different problem here.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One woman often complains to board members about men she sees as
> >>>>> creepers or sexual predators. She reports their misbehavior on
> behalf of
> >>>>> their victims. The victims don't initiate these reports.*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Many others don't see these men as creepy or inappropriate.  Recently
> >>>>> one of the "victims" clarified that her discomfort with the man was
> a year
> >>>>> ago and she'd long ago dealt with it to her satisfaction.  The man in
> >>>>> question had heard only rumors that some nameless woman was unhappy
> about
> >>>>> some nameless thing he'd done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This woman also publicly asked that young women who feel harassed
> should
> >>>>> talk to her about it.  We feel that's the Board's job, not hers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It seems that this woman is fishing for - or even inventing -
> >>>>> "naughty-dancer" problems.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When a married man gets accused of being a sexual predator, his wife
> has
> >>>>> to wonder if it's true. This adds to any marital tensions they may
> already
> >>>>> have.  So, while this woman is not actually punching anybody in the
> face, it
> >>>>> seems to me that she's committing violence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How should we handle this?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we need a "No proxy complaints" policy - i.e., the victim
> has to
> >>>>> speak up (and then our process will usually fix simple
> miscommunication
> >>>>> issues).
> >>>>> We need to clearly identify board members, so genuine victims know
> who
> >>>>> to talk to.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But does anybody have other ideas about preventing one person's
> issues
> >>>>> from  poisoning the atmosphere of a mostly friendly dance?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ____
> >>>>> * I know, victims often have a hard time stepping up and
> complaining, so
> >>>>> advocacy may be a good thing.  But that's a different discussion.
> In these
> >>>>> situations, there's no victim; there's no predator; there's just an
> >>>>> accusation with little to back it up.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> Callers at lists.sharedweight.net <javascript:;>
> >>>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
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>
> Lisa
>
>
>
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-- 
--------------------
Lindsay Morris
CEO, TSMworks
Tel. 1-859-539-9900
lindsay at tsmworks.com
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