[Callers] Another approach to Gender Free calling

Mon Jun 1 15:40:47 PDT 2015

RE: Dave:

Clockwise / counterclockwise - too wordy, and some people have trouble
with this regardless.

Hey: What about on the left diagonal? Along the set?

I also really don't like the blaming of the dance if it's not 100%
intuitive. Plenty of dances flow great but have a counter-intuitive
element. Restricting dances to those without counter-intuitive moves
is basically saying, "Sorry, if we want to be genderfree, we need to
put a cap on how difficult a dance is. Sorry genderfree dancers, you
aren't allowed to dance too advanced."  That's a big problem.

Rollaways can *not* be handled from left to right - who does the
rolling is not indicated at all!

On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Dave Casserly
<david.j.casserly at gmail.com> wrote:
> Also with regard to Ron's questions, numbers 2 and 3 (who-leads-whom and
> who-walks-forward) can be handled by using the terms "clockwise" and
> "counterclockwise."  As to 4 (who passes whom for a hey), I agree with Bob
> that if the dance is good, it should be obvious, but even if not, "pass left
> shoulders in the middle for a hey for four" can only be interpreted one way,
> so that fixes the issue of referring to roles.  Roll-aways can be handled
> with "roll away from the left to the right" or "roll away from the right to
> the left."
>
> I'm not saying that it's perfect, but it is actually quite doable to call a
> dance without referring to roles at all, even without resorting to first or
> second corners.
>
> Perry asked for an example of a dance with global terminology used.  Here's
> one (just picking a common, typical dance):
>
> Square Affair, by Becky Hill
>
> A1 Long Lines, 1st corners chain (or just say "chain" if you're dealing with
> experienced dancers and don't want to use the corners terminology)
> A2 Balance and pull by partner, pull by neighbor, balance and pull by
> partner, pull by neighbor
> B1 New neighbors balance and swing
> B2 Circle 3/4, partner swing
>
> Perry, you also mentioned that you are trying to figure out how global
> terminology would work for proper dances.  I have always called proper
> dances using global terminology without even thinking about it.  For Chorus
> Jig, for instance, why would you ever need to use the term "gent" or "lady"?
> Down the outside, back, down the middle, back and neighbor around-the-waist
> turn, 1s turn contra corners, 1s balance and swing.  Nothing that any
> particular role does that the other role isn't doing at the same time.
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 9:41 AM, Bob Morgan via Callers
> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> With regard to Ron's questions
>>
>> 1. Would be easily covered by 1st or 2nd corners walk forward to a wave
>>
>> 2. Again can be done with reference to corners
>>
>> 3. Not so familiar with these.
>>
>> 4. You usually only need an obvious first pass person so not an issue I
>> think
>>
>> 5.  If you're facing out you turn, if you're facing across you walk is how
>> I call it anyway
>>
>> Bob
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers
>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrea, how would you handle the following:
>>>
>>> 1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to
>>> Lambertville, et all?
>>>
>>> 2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?
>>>
>>> 3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers,
>>> Jurassic Redheads, etc.
>>>
>>> 4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.
>>>
>>> 5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?
>>>
>>> 6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't
>>> mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?
>>>
>>> None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>> On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers"
>>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at
>>>> Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of
>>>> global terminology for gender free contra.  I would contend that if used,
>>>> everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances.  Only the most
>>>> unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called.  The addition of
>>>> first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same
>>>> role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to
>>>> gender.  Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for
>>>> example.  It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in
>>>> those positions at that moment.  In ECD we use first and second corners to
>>>> refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions.  But
>>>> since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems
>>>> unhelpful.  Simply corner positions works better.  I'm glad some folks are
>>>> trying it out at last.  I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Andrea
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers
>>>> <callers at lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in
>>>> gender free calling.  Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis
>>>> using gender free calling without telling anyone.    The experiment was a
>>>> great success.  I received lots of  positive feedback on the evenings dance.
>>>> At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some
>>>> were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about
>>>> the dances or how I taught them.   One person noticed that there were more
>>>> dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual.  No one
>>>> I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.
>>>>
>>>> It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but
>>>> it is certainly possible.  Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to
>>>> call gender free.
>>>>
>>>> If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of
>>>> gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,
>>>> arcadian35 at gmail.com.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Jim Hemphill
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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> David Casserly
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