28 Nov
2015
28 Nov
'15
4:43 p.m.
I second the mention of Gene Hubert's The Turning Point; it's one of my favorite
modern contras.
How about Ted Sannella's Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure to Right and Left
Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT; I explain Half Promenade and then tell
the dancers that RLT is a lot like it, except that they'll "melt" through
the opposite couple instead of steering completely around them. They seem to get the
courtesy turn better if they've just done the same thing at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares and contras, I think
RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to comprehend. It's a compound move: you go
straight and then you turn, and you turn in a way you couldn't have predicted. The
most common error, in my experience, is for dancers to do a right-face solo turn after the
cross. This is true whether or not they give right hands on the cross. In areas where
giving right hands is the norm, it's important to tell them to let go quickly and not
let the handhold force them into turning alone.
After 50+ years of teaching, I still haven't decided whether it's better to
introduce RLT before or after Ladies Chain.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
28 Nov
28 Nov
7:21 p.m.
New subject: Dances with R & L Thru
I grew up with the NO HANDS for RLT. I've experimented with hands a few
times and find that if I give a right hand, my path changes slightly and
I'm pulled to the right. If I don't give a hand my path stays straight and
I easily turn left for the courtesy turn.
Sylvia Miskoe, concord, NH
On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Tony Parkes tony(a)hands4.com
[trad-dance-callers] <trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I second the mention of Gene Hubert’s The Turning Point; it’s one of my
favorite modern contras.
How about Ted Sannella’s Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure to
Right and Left Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT; I explain
Half Promenade and then tell the dancers that RLT is a lot like it, except
that they’ll “melt” through the opposite couple instead of steering
completely around them. They seem to get the courtesy turn better if
they’ve just done the same thing at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares and
contras, I think RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to comprehend. It’s
a compound move: you go straight and then you turn, and you turn in a way
you couldn’t have predicted. The most common error, in my experience, is
for dancers to do a right-face solo turn after the cross. This is true
whether or not they give right hands on the cross. In areas where giving
right hands is the norm, it’s important to tell them to let go quickly and
not let the handhold force them into turning alone.
After 50+ years of teaching, I still haven’t decided whether it’s better
to introduce RLT before or after Ladies Chain.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
7:59 p.m.
New subject: Dances with R & L Thru
Tony, My original question was because I thought I might experiment with
R&L Thru before Ladies Chain. My application is for a seniors group, but I
may try it a a contra dance as well.
Rich
On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Tony Parkes tony(a)hands4.com
[trad-dance-callers] <trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I second the mention of Gene Hubert’s The Turning Point; it’s one of my
favorite modern contras.
How about Ted Sannella’s Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure to
Right and Left Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT; I explain
Half Promenade and then tell the dancers that RLT is a lot like it, except
that they’ll “melt” through the opposite couple instead of steering
completely around them. They seem to get the courtesy turn better if
they’ve just done the same thing at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares and
contras, I think RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to comprehend. It’s
a compound move: you go straight and then you turn, and you turn in a way
you couldn’t have predicted. The most common error, in my experience, is
for dancers to do a right-face solo turn after the cross. This is true
whether or not they give right hands on the cross. In areas where giving
right hands is the norm, it’s important to tell them to let go quickly and
not let the handhold force them into turning alone.
After 50+ years of teaching, I still haven’t decided whether it’s better
to introduce RLT before or after Ladies Chain.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
10:20 p.m.
New subject: Dances with R & L Thru
Tony,
I always teach a RLT with each person only touching the fingers of the person coming
towards them and to never be touching those fingers when their shoulders meet. The reason
being, in MWSD they grip that persons hand and there is a tendency to hang on resulting in
the lady being pulled to her right.
With new or non-dancers, I teach a pass thru and California twirl and if two men or women
are dancing together. arch their inside hands and the person on the right ducks under
while the person on the left walks to the right with both facing back across the set. Men
don't like to curtsy turn another man. I also tress this point, that you BOTH pivot on
your joined hands or on the center spot between the dancers. This is also important in
doing a curtsy turn in a ladies chain. The men Must take the ladies position and keep the
pivot point as it was before the ladies cross over.
Otto WartemanTrinity, Texas
From: "Tony Parkes tony(a)hands4.com [trad-dance-callers]"
<trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com>
To: "trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com"
<trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2015 10:43 AM
Subject: [trad-dance-callers] Re: Dances with R & L Thru
I second the mention of Gene Hubert’s The Turning Point; it’s one of my favorite
modern contras. How about Ted Sannella’s Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure to
Right and Left Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT; I explain Half Promenade
and then tell the dancers that RLT is a lot like it, except that they’ll “melt” through
the opposite couple instead of steering completely around them. They seem to get the
courtesy turn better if they’ve just done the same thing at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares and contras, I think
RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to comprehend. It’s a compound move: you go
straight and then you turn, and you turn in a way you couldn’t have predicted. The most
common error, in my experience, is for dancers to do a right-face solo turn after the
cross. This is true whether or not they give right hands on the cross. In areas where
giving right hands is the norm, it’s important to tell them to let go quickly and not let
the handhold force them into turning alone. After 50+ years of teaching, I still
haven’t decided whether it’s better to introduce RLT before or after Ladies Chain. Tony
Parkes Billerica, Mass. #yiv6627840956 #yiv6627840956 -- #yiv6627840956ygrp-mkp
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29 Nov
29 Nov
5:31 p.m.
New subject: Dances with R & L Thru
I grew up with the no-hands Right & Left Thru (R&L-T), too. Our main
local caller in Santa Barbara, CA (my home town) was New England
transplant, David Woodsfellow. He taught, and we danced, the no hands
version.
And, I've noticed, as Sylvia M. points out, as with many things in the
dance, from the woman's side, the with hands R&L-T is more of a
challenge, since the pull-by for the person on the right tends to turn
them away from the person next to them. Actually, I'm sure most, if not
all, of us know this. (Many things, because I've noticed other places
where the woman's part is more challenging than the man's part.)
When I started dancing, in 1980, I was told/taught that the
no-hands/with-hands R&L-T was regional. But I have a different theory,
which, perhaps, Dudley--or others with greater historical knowledge--can
shed light on.
Back then David W. called a lot of the old traditional dances with
same-sex R&L-Ts. When doing a R&L-T with someone of the same sex, we
never did a courtesy turn, we'd do a "wheel-around" something akin to
the Butterfly Whirl. Thus the R&L-T was a pass through, put your arm
around the same-sex neighbor's back, and spin around half way (or
one-and-a-half, or two-and-a-half...). When doing this sort of
wheel-around, it's not a "right-then-left" figure, so it helped a lot
not holding a hand. Still a pull by, let go, wheel-around worked, but it
was a bit easier without the hands.
Even though I love the modern contras, I loved and now miss those dances.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
On 11/28/2015 11:21 AM, Sylvia Miskoe sylviasmiskoe(a)gmail.com
[trad-dance-callers] wrote:
I grew up with the NO HANDS for RLT. I've
experimented with hands a
few times and find that if I give a right hand, my path changes
slightly and I'm pulled to the right. If I don't give a hand my path
stays straight and I easily turn left for the courtesy turn.
Sylvia Miskoe, concord, NH
On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Tony Parkes tony(a)hands4.com
<mailto:tony@hands4.com> [trad-dance-callers]
<trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com
<mailto:trad-dance-callers@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
I second the mention of Gene Hubert’s The Turning Point; it’s one
of my favorite modern contras.
How about Ted Sannella’s Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure
to Right and Left Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT;
I explain Half Promenade and then tell the dancers that RLT is a
lot like it, except that they’ll “melt” through the opposite
couple instead of steering completely around them. They seem to
get the courtesy turn better if they’ve just done the same thing
at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares
and contras, I think RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to
comprehend. It’s a compound move: you go straight and then you
turn, and you turn in a way you couldn’t have predicted. The most
common error, in my experience, is for dancers to do a right-face
solo turn after the cross. This is true whether or not they give
right hands on the cross. In areas where giving right hands is the
norm, it’s important to tell them to let go quickly and not let
the handhold force them into turning alone.
After 50+ years of teaching, I still haven’t decided whether it’s
better to introduce RLT before or after Ladies Chain.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
9:32 p.m.
New subject: Dances with R & L Thru
Eric: In the Monadnock Region we always did R&L w/o hands. May have come from the
breakaway from English influence...Look Ma, no hands?
Louis Pasquerelli was a paving cutter and barber in Keene, and the best dancer in the
region. When he was inactive, on the R&L he would dance across with whoever the
active man was, then he would stand there in place while the others passed through, then
he would have the whole middle to himself, and he would step he way across to his new
place.
The French in their quadrilles do it thus: (Pas de dames, pas de hommes) (not sure that’s
correct?) no progression in the quadrille,...the two ladies cross over quickly then the
two men change places, and they return the same way. Fun to do. Dudley
Dudley Laufman
PO Box 61, 322 Shaker Rd
Canterbury, NH 03224
www.laufman.org
603-783-4719
dlaufman(a)comcast.net
From: mailto:trad-dance-callers@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2015 12:31 PM
To: trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [trad-dance-callers] Re: Dances with R & L Thru
I grew up with the no-hands Right & Left Thru (R&L-T), too. Our main local caller
in Santa Barbara, CA (my home town) was New England transplant, David Woodsfellow. He
taught, and we danced, the no hands version.
And, I've noticed, as Sylvia M. points out, as with many things in the dance, from the
woman's side, the with hands R&L-T is more of a challenge, since the pull-by for
the person on the right tends to turn them away from the person next to them. Actually,
I'm sure most, if not all, of us know this. (Many things, because I've noticed
other places where the woman's part is more challenging than the man's part.)
When I started dancing, in 1980, I was told/taught that the no-hands/with-hands R&L-T
was regional. But I have a different theory, which, perhaps, Dudley--or others with
greater historical knowledge--can shed light on.
Back then David W. called a lot of the old traditional dances with same-sex R&L-Ts.
When doing a R&L-T with someone of the same sex, we never did a courtesy turn,
we'd do a "wheel-around" something akin to the Butterfly Whirl. Thus the
R&L-T was a pass through, put your arm around the same-sex neighbor's back, and
spin around half way (or one-and-a-half, or two-and-a-half...). When doing this sort of
wheel-around, it's not a "right-then-left" figure, so it helped a lot not
holding a hand. Still a pull by, let go, wheel-around worked, but it was a bit easier
without the hands.
Even though I love the modern contras, I loved and now miss those dances.
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
On 11/28/2015 11:21 AM, Sylvia Miskoe sylviasmiskoe(a)gmail.com [trad-dance-callers] wrote:
I grew up with the NO HANDS for RLT. I've experimented with hands a few times and
find that if I give a right hand, my path changes slightly and I'm pulled to the
right. If I don't give a hand my path stays straight and I easily turn left for the
courtesy turn.
Sylvia Miskoe, concord, NH
On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Tony Parkes tony(a)hands4.com [trad-dance-callers]
<trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote:
I second the mention of Gene Hubert’s The Turning Point; it’s one of my favorite
modern contras.
How about Ted Sannella’s Yankee Reel? I use it as a first exposure to Right and Left
Thru (RLT). It ends with Half Promenade and RLT; I explain Half Promenade and then tell
the dancers that RLT is a lot like it, except that they’ll “melt” through the opposite
couple instead of steering completely around them. They seem to get the courtesy turn
better if they’ve just done the same thing at the end of the promenade.
Of the 20 or 30 basic moves that occur in most traditional squares and contras, I
think RLT is the hardest one for new dancers to comprehend. It’s a compound move: you go
straight and then you turn, and you turn in a way you couldn’t have predicted. The most
common error, in my experience, is for dancers to do a right-face solo turn after the
cross. This is true whether or not they give right hands on the cross. In areas where
giving right hands is the norm, it’s important to tell them to let go quickly and not let
the handhold force them into turning alone.
After 50+ years of teaching, I still haven’t decided whether it’s better to introduce
RLT before or after Ladies Chain.
Tony Parkes
Billerica, Mass.
30 Nov
30 Nov
3:33 a.m.
New subject: R&L Thru styling (was Re: Dances with R & L Thru)
When I first got into the contra and traditional square dance
scene in Pittsburgh, PA, in the early 1980s, it was common not
to take right hands while crossing the set during a Right and
Left Through. No hands was also the usual styling in the
Boston area at that time. Ditto in the San Francisco Bay area
when I moved there a few years later. I think that in Seattle
at that time, they did use right hands.
In the SF Bay area today, using hands is by far the predominant
style. Part of the reason may be that at some point local
caller Charlie Fenton (then programmer for the San Francisco
contra series and frequent caller there and elsewhere in the
area) decided he preferred that style and began actively
promoting it.
During visits to New England in recent years, I've noticed
that I encounter the "with hands" styling much more often than
I used to. See, for example, these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z35S6tc5xqk
(NEFFA, April 2015; first R< seen about 0:57)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn4Hs8qWe-c
(NEFFA, April 2015; first R< about 2:34)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW72Qx11CMQ
(NEFFA, Arpil 2015; first R< about 0:23)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8zqG4688XI
(Cpncord (MA) Scout House; Sept. 2013;
first R< seen about 2:03)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GDAeExsj_k
(Scout House, Jan 2013; first R< about 0:30)
By contrast, look at this video from a dance at the Concord
Scout House in 1992:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPxhcI7jtnE
(Concord Scout House, 1992; first R&T about 2:06)
I don't know the causes of this shift in styling, and I'm
not stating a personal preference. I'm just reporting
observations. There may also be some communities where the
"no hands" styling is still firmly predominant.
By the way, both the stylings have long histories. Lloyd
Shaw's description of "right and left tHrough" in _Cowboy
Dances_ (p. 127) says
Each dancer gives his right hand to the opposite ...
but he later adds
Experts usually leave out the handshake, but beginners
find it a help.
I'm quoting from a 1950 edition of the book, but I think
those passages are unchanged from the 1939 first edition.
Historically "right and left through" derive (I believe)
from the circular hey for four, and I think that was done
in versions with and without hands in the time of Playford.
--Jim
6:02 a.m.
New subject: R&L Thru styling (was Re: Dances with R & L Thru)
I think the date must be wrong on that Tony Parkes vid. Was Larry Jennings still able to
dance by then?
Emily L. Ferguson
Landscape & sailing photographer
based on Cape Cod, MA
elf(a)landsedgephoto.com
764-269-5968
On Nov 29, 2015, at 10:33 PM, James Saxe
jim.saxe(a)gmail.com [trad-dance-callers] <trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com> wrote:
When I first got into the contra and traditional square dance
scene in Pittsburgh, PA, in the early 1980s, it was common not
to take right hands while crossing the set during a Right and
Left Through. No hands was also the usual styling in the
Boston area at that time. Ditto in the San Francisco Bay area
when I moved there a few years later. I think that in Seattle
at that time, they did use right hands.
In the SF Bay area today, using hands is by far the predominant
style. Part of the reason may be that at some point local
caller Charlie Fenton (then programmer for the San Francisco
contra series and frequent caller there and elsewhere in the
area) decided he preferred that style and began actively
promoting it.
During visits to New England in recent years, I've noticed
that I encounter the "with hands" styling much more often than
I used to. See, for example, these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z35S6tc5xqk
(NEFFA, April 2015; first R< seen about 0:57)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn4Hs8qWe-c
(NEFFA, April 2015; first R< about 2:34)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW72Qx11CMQ
(NEFFA, Arpil 2015; first R< about 0:23)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8zqG4688XI
(Cpncord (MA) Scout House; Sept. 2013;
first R< seen about 2:03)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GDAeExsj_k
(Scout House, Jan 2013; first R< about 0:30)
By contrast, look at this video from a dance at the Concord
Scout House in 1992:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPxhcI7jtnE
(Concord Scout House, 1992; first R&T about 2:06)
I don't know the causes of this shift in styling, and I'm
not stating a personal preference. I'm just reporting
observations. There may also be some communities where the
"no hands" styling is still firmly predominant.
By the way, both the stylings have long histories. Lloyd
Shaw's description of "right and left tHrough" in _Cowboy
Dances_ (p. 127) says
Each dancer gives his right hand to the opposite ...
but he later adds
Experts usually leave out the handshake, but beginners
find it a help.
I'm quoting from a 1950 edition of the book, but I think
those passages are unchanged from the 1939 first edition.
Historically "right and left through" derive (I believe)
from the circular hey for four, and I think that was done
in versions with and without hands in the time of Playford.
--Jim
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Posted by: James Saxe <jim.saxe(a)gmail.com>
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7:05 a.m.
New subject: R&L Thru styling (was Re: Dances with R & L Thru)
After I cited this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPxhcI7jtnE
(Concord Scout House, 1992; ...)
Emily Ferguson wrote:
I think the date must be wrong on that Tony Parkes
vid. Was Larry Jennings still able to dance by then?
If anyone knows definitely that the date is wrong, I'd like
to know (and to know how you know).
However, I believe Larry danced (part of) every dance at the
1997 event described here:
http://www.neffa.org/ldj.html
Around that time, what he would do was tap one of his friends
on the shoulder while a contra was in progress and take the
friend's place for a round or two, which was all he had the
stamina for. Then Larry would step out and whatever friend
he had tapped would step back in. As best I could tell, and
as far as I remember, he'd manage to dance pretty well during
the round or two that his energy lasted. So it seems plausible
that five years earlier, he could have been dancing as we see
him in the video.
--Jim
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trad-callers@lists.sharedweight.net
8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Emily L. Ferguson -
Erik Hoffman -
James Saxe -
jdlaufman＠comcast.net -
Otto Warteman -
Rich Sbardella -
Sylvia Miskoe -
Tony Parkes