Hand on back of shoulder prevents the dreaded elbow clamp, And reinforces that the follow needs to support SOME of their own weight. Both of those issues have caused me shoulder problems. On Wednesday, June 19, 2019 John Sweeney via Organizers <john(a)modernjive.com> wrote: #yiv6746132607 #yiv6746132607 -- _filtered #yiv6746132607 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6746132607 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6746132607 {font-family:Consolas;panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6746132607 #yiv6746132607 p.yiv6746132607MsoNormal, #yiv6746132607 li.yiv6746132607MsoNormal, #yiv6746132607 div.yiv6746132607MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;}#yiv6746132607 a:link, #yiv6746132607 span.yiv6746132607MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6746132607 a:visited, #yiv6746132607 span.yiv6746132607MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6746132607 p.yiv6746132607MsoPlainText, #yiv6746132607 li.yiv6746132607MsoPlainText, #yiv6746132607 div.yiv6746132607MsoPlainText {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv6746132607 pre {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:10.0pt;color:black;}#yiv6746132607 span.yiv6746132607HTMLPreformattedChar {font-family:Consolas;color:black;}#yiv6746132607 p.yiv6746132607msonormal0, #yiv6746132607 li.yiv6746132607msonormal0, #yiv6746132607 div.yiv6746132607msonormal0 {margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;}#yiv6746132607 span.yiv6746132607PlainTextChar {font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv6746132607 span.yiv6746132607EmailStyle22 {font-family:sans-serif;color:windowtext;}#yiv6746132607 .yiv6746132607MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6746132607 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv6746132607 div.yiv6746132607WordSection1 {}#yiv6746132607 In the video that Larry recommends (great video in general), re the lady’s left hand,  Sue says, "and pushes into his shoulder blade".   Please don’t!  It is unnecessary and uncomfortable!   In fact I disagree with getting the lady to try and reach the man’s back at all. Her hand resting on his upper arm is a far nicer connection.   For the details, read on:   = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =   An essay on the lady's left hand in a swing:   Yes, I know some very well-respected American callers who teach a swing with the lady's left hand on the back of the man's shoulder blade.   I believe that there are many challenges associated with this:   1) The man, who, on average, has longer arms, reaches under the lady's arm to very easily reach her shoulder-blade.  The lady, with her (on average) shorter arms and probably starting from lower down, has to reach OVER the man's arm to get to his shoulder-blade.  Yes, some ladies can reach.  But in my experience many ladies cannot easily reach and still be comfortable.   2) If they can just reach, many ladies then, instead of just placing their hand on the man's shoulder-blade (so that when centrifugal force increases they can resist it) they actually press into the man's shoulder-blade.  I am not sure if this is just bad technique, but I suspect it may be partially to do with the fact that they can only just reach so they press so that their hand doesn't slip.  It can be quite uncomfortable for the man.   3) Even if the lady's arm is the same length as the man, and she is the same height, she still has to reach over his arm, so it automatically pulls you closer together than you need to be, and even closer if her arm is shorter.  While there are fun swing variations where we get really, really close, in a standard buzz-step swing I don’t believe that being forced closer together is desirable.   4) It is not necessary if the man's hand is well placed.  Each person should support their own weight, so all the connection is doing is resisting centrifugal force and, in 50 years of swinging, I have never found that a problem.   5) It is quite common for the lady to twirl under the man's arm at the end of a swing. If the lady twirls counter-clockwise that is not a problem.  But if she twirls clockwise then she will break her arm.  Probably not a problem if the lady is completely in control of the twirl - she just prepares for it by moving her arm, but if the man takes some part in initiating the twirl (which I believe is very common) then if he tries to twirl her and she reacts slowly, then either the twirl fails or she gets hurt.  Of course if the lady's left hand is just resting on the man's upper arm she can twirl either way without a problem.  The hand just slides off easily.   6) In complex flourishes, such as a Texas Tommy/Apache Whip exit from a swing, then you really do need some lead and follow, and it is nearly always the man leading the lady.  A move like that is impossible if the lady's left hand is on the man's back.  Believe me I have tried it!   I hope that helps you understand why I always teach the lady to leave her relaxed left arm resting on the man's upper arm. :-)   = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =               Happy dancing,                                             John                                                                       John Sweeney, Dancer, England   john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574                          http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs                        http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent                                          http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs     From: Organizers <organizers-bounces+john=modernjive.com(a)lists.sharedweight.net> On Behalf Of Larry Koplik via Organizers Sent: 18 June 2019 22:32 To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Subject: Re: [Organizers] Tips for a swing workshop   Here's a video that Princeton Country Dancers created about the buzz step swing that might be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaVSVtPRwlA Larry Koplik On 6/18/2019 4:01 PM, Karlsruhe Contra Dance via Organizers wrote: HI all, I know, we learn to swing by swinging with other experienced dancers. But my problem is a lack of experienced dancers. I would love to help my dancers get a bit more out of their swings the next time I have the chance to offer a proper workshop (other than "the basics") There is potential there. I was thinking of possibly selling it as "swings and swing flourishes" - but based on the level, the flourishes won't have to be terribly creative. I have never participated in a workshop of this type.  Can any of you point me to some resources or tell me about experiences that you have had? Or other ideas? Thanks! Rebecca in Karlsruhe, D. _______________________________________________Organizers mailing listOrganizers@lists.sharedweight.nethttp://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net   _______________________________________________ Organizers mailing list Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net