Indeed, someone who's resistant to being helped is certainly a problem. Which means David' suggestion would be to ask him how he feels about that. Ask him if he wants help or not. 

And if he doesn't, maybe work up a few three-person alternative figures :P

Greg

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:59 AM, via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: What to do with a really bad new dancer?
      (Paul Pindris via Organizers)
   2. Re: What to do with a really bad new dancer?
      (David Kirchner via Organizers)
   3. Re: What to do with a really bad new dancer?
      (Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 21:31:29 -0500
From: Paul Pindris via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Marie-Mich?le Fournier <mariemichele.fournier@gmail.com>
Cc: Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers
        <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?
Message-ID:
        <CAFwDPfgBcaq6xxX5Ob_hxQb=a2ChfMJGwYNWJ2WrxyVJpHM60A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I am quite astonished -- actually, troubled -- that anyone would have the
insensitivity to refer to another dancer as a "speed bump." I am proud to
relate that I have yet to see any physically challenged dancer at the
several monthly contra dances in my area of southern New Hampshire be
anything less than totally accepted as part of our community. Whether
dancers have had difficulty because of a medical condition, the
after-effects of a car accident, or simply the problem of "two left feet,"
they have in every case that I am aware of been made to feel as comfortable
as possible. The adage I share with every new dancer I cross paths with is
that contra dancers are three things -- welcoming, helpful, and forgiving.
In New Hampshire that applies to everyone, and I have yet to encounter any
exceptions.

Paul Pindris
Deerfield, NH

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>    Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>    A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list
> Organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2017 23:19:28 -0600
From: David Kirchner via Organizers
        <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Marie-Mich?le Fournier <mariemichele.fournier@gmail.com>
Cc: Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers
        <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?
Message-ID:
        <CACj4M6XPH6_CBMh6smUZLbCM6=rLD5hqzp1x4GGeTV1GFaSd3w@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Marie,

I've read your note very carefully several times. It seems as if there's
something here that you may not be telling us. You say that "it is an
unpleasant experience" to partner this dancer. However, experienced dancers
dance with unskilled newer dancers all the time. And I suspect that in your
community, as in ours, there are some excellent dancers who pride
themselves on being good partners to newcomers and helping them become
acclimated to the dance. I've also seen dancers over the years acclimate
themselves to dancing with people who have a number of physical or mental
impairments. So I am guessing that there's something about this dancer
beyond the physical impairment that makes him an unpleasant partner. Maybe
one approach would be to try to address that, whatever it is, so that
instead of having an unpleasant dancer with an impairment, you have a
pleasant (or at least unobjectionable) dancer with an impairment.

David
St. Paul, MN


On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers <
organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>    Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
> often does not remember what is coming next.
>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>    A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
> Thank you
> Marie
> ContraMontreal
>
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list
> Organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 06:59:23 -0500
From: Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers
        <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: David Kirchner <dekirchner@gmail.com>
Cc: Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers
        <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Organizers] What to do with a really bad new dancer?
Message-ID:
        <CADbbneZm55Gfx9BO4_nGGubz_e-+unyBvcQufDE6g+WKe_4kxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

You are right David, I did not do a very good job of explaining the
problem. He is both confused and slow, which I had previously encountered
mostly separately. But he also seem to resist being led to where he needs
to be, often trying to go somewhere else instead and I don't think he
realizes that he is not doing well and being disruptive to other dancers.
And the bad smell makes everything worse.

On any given night our crowd is about half brand-new or beginners and most
of the beginners we get are fairly young, so we are more used to young
confused dancers, who seem to be easier to lead around. We also don't have
enough experienced dancers to cover him all the time unless he accepts
dancing with men and often times when he dances with other beginners the
set falls appart or comes very close to it.

But we do want to be welcoming, which is why I'm asking the question. I am
still trying to figure out how to gently let him know that he is causing
problems so he'll let us help him and whether we should concentrate our
efforts to dance with him early in the night or later on.

Thank you everyone for your input so far!
Marie

On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 12:19 AM, David Kirchner <dekirchner@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Marie,
>
> I've read your note very carefully several times. It seems as if there's
> something here that you may not be telling us. You say that "it is an
> unpleasant experience" to partner this dancer. However, experienced dancers
> dance with unskilled newer dancers all the time. And I suspect that in your
> community, as in ours, there are some excellent dancers who pride
> themselves on being good partners to newcomers and helping them become
> acclimated to the dance. I've also seen dancers over the years acclimate
> themselves to dancing with people who have a number of physical or mental
> impairments. So I am guessing that there's something about this dancer
> beyond the physical impairment that makes him an unpleasant partner. Maybe
> one approach would be to try to address that, whatever it is, so that
> instead of having an unpleasant dancer with an impairment, you have a
> pleasant (or at least unobjectionable) dancer with an impairment.
>
> David
> St. Paul, MN
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Marie-Mich?le Fournier via Organizers <
> organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>    Lately a new dancer has started coming to our dance and he is bad
>> enough that he will often make the set break if the dance is moderately
>> challenging. He seems to have some kind of impairment and walks very
>> stiffly which means he will often not be on time for a figure and also
>> often does not remember what is coming next.
>>   We want to be inclusive but at the same time his presence negatively
>> impacts other dancers in his set and while some of the experienced dancers
>> will take one for the team and dance with him, it is an unpleasant
>> experience to be his partner. Unfortunately, we always have many new
>> dancers and having one couple not be where they should be can really throw
>> them off in some dances so I feel like I have to push and pull him around
>> to be on time, despite the fact that it's a little rude.
>>    A recent caller to our dance called him a "speed bump" which was quite
>> accurate. I'm sure other dances have had experience with similar troubles,
>> does anyone have advice on how to deal with this so that other dancers
>> still have a good time yet we are nice to this problematic dancer?
>> Thank you
>> Marie
>> ContraMontreal
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Organizers mailing list
>> Organizers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>
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