Hi folks

Apologies for how I am addressing the response.  Most lists default to the entire group, but it seems like this goes only to the individuals in the response field?  OK, now I see that Marie-Micele seems to be the moderator and generic address

Just a few thoughts:

COULD YOU PLEASE LIST WHERE YOU ARE FROM AND YOUR DANCE SERIES?  

This is an issue I notice in all of these lists, but specifically in the Organizers' list, knowing your location is useful, unless you want to remain anonymous

But while I'm at it, I might as well make a couple of comments. I've always wondered myself (since my first dance in 1981!) about the contradiction of having a lesson preceding the dance, while publicity also indicates that no experience needed, all dances taught, dances are easy etc. etc.

Yes, the dances are easy compared to international folk, which is mostly Balkan these days, and ballroom.  But I have witnessed way too many people struggling, especially in recent years, with the fast pace of these  always-in-motion cardio -- and -- mental workout dances.

As a caller, I got to the point that I no longer enjoyed ramping up the dances for the experienced dancers while leaving the less physically and mentally fit dancers behind. I had already been calling a lot of community dances and family dances and getting much more satisfaction from them. And people smiling a heck of a lot more!   So I stopped organizing --  as well as calling -- contra series.

My organizing community and family dances, as fun as they were for people (we would get rousing ovations at the end of each event), our turnouts were still too small to have a viable event. But I was still organizing them until Covid. 

 I am lucky that we have a couple of local bands who are willing to play for whatever comes in the door, so we could continue and each of us get gas money, and sometimes enough to pay for a meal at a local cafe.

 But I'm not sure what my future is going to be because of all the complications right now with checking vaccinations and masking, etc. etc.

Another important issue is the gender neutral calling. I rarely use gendered terms because they're not necessary in the community and family dances. But larks and robins is such a weird descriptor!  Do you think that there could be another way of distinguishing roles? I think the best way to do gender-neutral calling is to use positional terminology. But I realize that is very challenging for us callers

A colleague of mine uses "drivers and passengers" and I tried that recently, but wouldn't you know it? Some people from the United Kingdom were there and they said they got thrown off by the terminology of course!

But some thing that a lot of the Contra world folks do not think of is that we are going to become quite a monoculture because many rural people as well as many conservative people are not only unhappy with this terminology, but some are actually boycotting the dances because of it. I do know a few people in that category.

I do my best to explain to them about the pain that some members of our community go through at the dances with the gent/lady terms, but they have a couple of arguments themselves. For one thing, they say that they are uncomfortable with these new terms. 

 But there's also the argument that many of us progressives are going overboard to make sure that members of oppressed groups do not feel any pain in their lives. I realize this is a huge huge conversation, but in the wide world there is more and more talk about how damaging it is to insulate oppressed groups from feeling any pain. And I am one of those people who went through terrible oppression growing up and was lucky to have enough of a support system to allow me to get past the pain. And yes, there are people who do not have that support system

Now I'm realizing I've gone on way too long, but I do hope we have more of a dialogue about this

Paul Rosenberg

Albany, NY

Founder of the Flurry Festival, Saratoga Springs, NY

www.homespun.biz

Joy Through Traditional Dance & Live Fiddle Music

518-482-9255

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 9:26 AM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Could you specifically address my question of how to get new dancers to show up on time for the lesson?  I think it would be ok to advertise the event as starting at 7:00 with lesson (or basic moves instruction) in the first half hour.  I feel like when new people come at 7:00 and experienced arrive at 7:30 that already sets the newbies up as "a tribe apart".  We need to get as many as possible there at 7:00 to integrate and socialize.  Thoughts?

On Tue, Mar 14, 2023 at 6:50 AM Mary Collins <nativedae@gmail.com> wrote:

Alexander- oops...while we are not specifically gender free, we strive for it in a very very conservative group of older dancers.  I am scheduled to meet with our web person soon and will adress verbage. Thanks for this info.

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 4:34 PM Alexandra Deis-Lauby <adeislauby@gmail.com> wrote:

Mary,  

Is the Buffalo dance gender free?  The website tells callers to use gents and ladies. If the dance is in fact gender free, then the website needs updating.  If you are advertising the dance as gender free but use gents and ladies, that would certainly not encourage me to return if I were a new dancer. 

On Mar 13, 2023, at 3:54 PM, Mary Collins via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Watching this as we have the same issue. We are (I believe) the 2nd largest city in NYS and have the most pitiful turnout.  

I think you have some good ideas here.  

One comment: we often or even always speak about our dance not only gender free, no partner necessary to bring, but also as no lessons needed, each dance being taught and "walked through".  Then we advertise "the lesson" b4 the dance. If words matter (and I think we agree they do) the this is a huge contradiction.

I say to people these sets of words & phrasing: easy, walking to music, Only 8 steps, no need to bring partner but a friend is fun, dances are taught, practiced (stole from country line dance & swing) and then they are prompted once the music starts. We offer basic move instruction rather than lesson.

I don't really know if these changes help, hinder or have no effect. I only know that not having a friend anchor for the first few dances would have resulted in my not coming back. The lesson too. But that's just my perception.

We give out "get in free" cards and encourage ppl to share theirs with a friend. I also encourage people who say "I told my friends...", to next dance offer to pick them up or meet b4 and come together.

We also encourage experienced dancers to partner with new dancers.

I am anxious to hear other's ideas.

Mary "from Buffalo", not.

On Mon, Mar 13, 2023, 12:49 PM Sandy Seiler via Organizers <organizers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Newbies are not returning my thoughts...

Why? not feeling welcome?, feeling intimidated/too hard?  Coming late to lesson and being lost/confused during dance?  Lack of feeling of mastery/learning?  Need follow up lesson since we only dance 1x/month?  One month is a long time to wait for another lesson.  Not enough younger dancers like themselves?

Ideas:

1. Use beginner friendly buttons

2. Ask experienced dancers to dance with beginners for first 2 dances at least.  Board members lead by example.

3. Encourage experienced dancers to come for the beginner lesson to welcome/socialize with new dancers.

4. Have caller or one of us give out free passes (pass for next dance) at the lesson so we don't have to remember to do it at the table.  We gave out 15 free passes to new dancers in Feb and did not get any to return in March. (March dance was on 2nd sat instead of our normal 3rd sat and it's spring break.  Feb attendance 61, March 38 (paid dancers, not including 3 listeners).  Also there was a local magazine article about LBDA in February and we had our most experienced and popular contra dance band (Kaw Creek) playing.

5. Our Lesson is at 7:00, Dance 7:30.  Should we use start time 7:00 in advertising bc experienced dancers will figure it out and adjust to coming at 7:30 more easily than new people knowing they need to come at 7:00 for the lesson.  New people attending and being on time for 7:00 lesson is important for a smooth dance so do we need to advertise that way?  Want experienced dancers to be there to meet and socialize with them so they can be better integrated into the community and not feel so awkward.  I have suggested this to our board before, but was told that would be manipulative toward experienced dancers who would be upset that they came too early and wasted their time.  That feels like a very unwelcoming attitude, and I would like to encourage all our dancers to consider that 7:00 is our start time because beginners are important and we need to be there to greet them and socialize.

6. Schedule a 1 hour lesson or series of lessons led by experienced callers Lisa and or Jill and a couple new callers... before the dance?  On a different day?  Through Parks and Rec this summer?

7. New dancers are far outnumbering experienced dancers.  Need to do advanced dance to pull back in some dancers who drifted away after the pandemic.  Contact individually by phone/email?

And then getting younger people to attend is a whole other but strongly related topic we need to address more effectively.  We are not getting enough young people at dances.  It appears to me that when a young person comes they often decide to not return because there aren't enough people in their age group. 

 

Please tell me if you like/encourage these ideas I have come up with so far and add others.

Especially I want to know how to get new people to come on time for the lesson. 

Is it ok to advertise dance for 7:00 even though first 30 minutes is lesson?  It's frustrating for our callers and then they don't get a full lesson which is not good for anyone.

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