I'd sent this earlier but didn't see it in the archive - realize now I
didn't copy the list.
-Don
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Don Veino <redacted>
Date: Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Organizers] Liability insurance
To: John W Gintell <redacted>
Included in NFO membership at very reasonable rate. http://www.nfo-usa.org/
insurance.htm
On Aug 14, 2017 12:38 PM, "John W Gintell via Organizers" <organizers@lists.
sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I am wondering whether most dance series have liability insurance -
> particularly small ones.
>
> Insurance for a dance series from CDSS costs $450, $550, … depending on
> the number of dances plus $85 membership fee every year. I suspect other
> sources would be more expensive. For a small dance with few financial
> reserves, the extra fees each year could easily drive it to extinction.
>
> I know that sone venues require that the group has insurance, but not all
> do.
>
> What is the risk of not having it? Any recent incidents in the past few
> years?
>
> I’d think possible suits could be from dancers or musicians/callers who
> got injured or thought they were treated badly, venues where there was
> damage to the site.
>
> What about ASCAP copy infringement suits? Have there been any of these?
>
> Anything else?
>
> John
> _______________________________________________
> Organizers mailing list
> Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
>
Our dance in Gainesville, FL had CDSS insurance - but I'm honestly not sure
how much it helps if it were to come to someone trying to make a claim to
cover an injury. Best I can tell, the CDSS insurance only kicks in *after*
the organization or individuals have been sued & found liable (or otherwise
found liable). From what I can tell about that process, the attorney's fees
alone would be enough to put a massive hurt on any dance organization (and
most individuals, if they were sued in their capacity as 'dance
organizers'). The specific language from the CDSS website is, "This is a
general commercial liability policy. It is not accident insurance.
Liability insurance is for when you are sued, and negligence of some sort
on the part of the group has to be proven."
After thinking about that a bit, I did some research on other dance
organizations and their offers of insurance coverage - and it turns out
that some of them (specifically some square dance organizations) actually
*do* offer actual accident insurance. Like, if an accident happens and
someone gets injured, then they can get the cost of their injuries covered
(up to a certain amount, and secondary to regular health insurance). If I
recall correctly, one of the organizations had the insurance set up such
that they'd need specific member rolls for the individual square dance
clubs, to keep track of whose dues had been paid and therefore who was
covered under the accident insurance. That wouldn't work too well for
Contra obviously, since we tend to get lots of random new people - and we'd
want them to be covered without having to make them sign up for membership.
Anyway, I researched more, and it turns out that there's at least one
insurance company (Francis L. Dean, fdean.com ) that offers no-fault
accident insurance for dances, as well as combined participant liability.
And you can get the accident insurance without the liability insurance -
and it's reasonably cheap. I think it'd be great for CDSS to adopt this
type of insurance product for the member organizations - because honestly,
it seems a lot better than the current insurance that CDSS offers. But
maybe there are other elements to the insurance situation that I'm not
aware of.
Richard Mathews
On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 2:23 PM, via Organizers <
organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Liability insurance (Mac Mckeever via Organizers)
> 2. Re: Liability insurance (Dave Casserly via Organizers)
> 3. Re: Liability insurance (Donald Perley via Organizers)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2017 17:27:28 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Mac Mckeever via Organizers <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> To: Mary Anne Eason <maeason(a)gmail.com>,
> "organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net"
> <organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
> Subject: Re: [Organizers] Liability insurance
> Message-ID: <669200276.1428319.1502731648988(a)mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We had a problem where a dancer fell and broke her arm.? Her health
> insurance covered her treatment.? They called her and demanded to know who
> we were and who owned the venue.? She said OK - but if anyone asks I will
> tell them I was a klutz and fell - it was my own fault.? AT that point the
> insurance co dropped it.
> I was told is it common for insurance companies to try to recover their
> costs via law suits.
> If you have any assets at all they need to be protected.? In our state,
> officers of not-for-profit cannot be sued for liability issues - and we are
> all volunteers.? Make sure your organizers are not vulnerable
> Mac McKeever
>
>
> From: Mary Anne Eason via Organizers <organizers@lists.
> sharedweight.net>
> To: organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 12:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [Organizers] Liability insurance
>
> Our smallish dance has had liability insurance for the past several
> years because the venue required it. We also had to have their name
> added to the contract which cost another $30 on top of the other fees
> you have already mentioned. I have been at a couple dances where
> accidents have happened, and someone could have sued, but fortunately
> didn't. I've felt better knowing we have the insurance, but we really
> can't afford it and our bands and callers have suffered because we had
> less money to pay them. (We try to hold back a little each month to help
> cover those costs as well as the cost of the hall.) I don't know what
> the solution is - sorry!
>
> Mary Anne
>
> On 8/14/2017 12:38 PM, John W Gintell via Organizers wrote:
> > I am wondering whether most dance series have liability insurance -
> particularly? small ones.
> >
> > Insurance for a dance series from CDSS costs $450, $550, ? depending on
> the number of dances plus $85 membership fee every year. I suspect other
> sources would be more expensive. For a small dance with few financial
> reserves, the extra fees each year could easily drive it to extinction.
> >
> > I know that sone venues require that the group has insurance, but not
> all do.
> >
> > What is the risk of not having it? Any recent incidents in the past few
> years?
> >
> > I?d think possible suits could be from dancers or musicians/callers who
> got injured or thought they were treated badly, venues where there was
> damage to the site.
> >
> > What about ASCAP copy infringement suits? Have there been any of these?
> >
> > Anything else?
> >
> > ??? John
> > _______________________________________________
> > Organizers mailing list
> > Organizers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/organizers-sharedweight.net
> >
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
