Playing from sheet music won't make it harder to create excitement. But the sheet music cannot be a substitute for listening and responding to what's happening around you (in the music and elsewhere). If there's no listening and there's no motion or life or flexion or growth while playing, maybe it won't be exciting.

In English Country Dance we almost always play from sheet music, but the good players won't stick to the page (that applies for both melody and chords). This could be a reflection of my personal style, but if I have sheet music of the melody, I can improvise much more striking harmonies or counter-melodies, which makes it even more exciting. I generally don't use sheet music for contra, and as a result, my improvised variations are more generic and more safe, but I still take every single chance I can to briefly wander away from the melody.

I think the culprit is not listening and not adapting. Sheet music makes it possible for some people get away without listening or adapting. Taking the sheet music away might help them, or maybe they'd just stick to the tunes they have memorized and still not adapt.

Jonathan Werk

From: Musicians <musicians-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net> on behalf of musicians-request@lists.sharedweight.net <musicians-request@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: May 17, 2019 7:37 PM
To: musicians@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Musicians Digest, Vol 25, Issue 5
 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Dots (Thomas Verdot)
   2. Re: Dots (Martha Edwards)
   3. Re: Dots (Meg Dedolph)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Jeff,

While I understand your point & agree with the outcome that you suggest,
  I see a sheet of music more like a dashboard in a car - the gauges are
there to glance at once in a while as need be but the important thing to
watch is the road.  For myself, the best example is the (thankfully)
rare occasion when we are asked to do an unending grand march.  We
string 3-6 tunes together, in different keys, 6/8 & 4/4, etc to keep it
interesting. I always scribble out the first couple of bars of each
tune, in order, so that I don't blow a transition or start into the
wrong tune in the agreed upon order.

As for "playing by ear", do we really mean learning by ear?  If that is
the case it doesn't matter much to me.  Whether I learn a tune from a
friend, a recording or a piece of paper, by the time it gets used it is
memorized & has entered into a state of constant flux.

Finally, It is guys like you, the "rhythm section", who can most easily
create excitement via rhythmic & chord moves.  If that is solid &
driving, the melody instruments can float on top & add the filigree.  As
proof, I can remember you with the Synchpaths going several times in a
row through a tune with no melody at all & without a single dancer
looking perplexed.  Maybe all of us fiddle players should just pack up,
forget about the tune & go out on the floor & dance.

Regards, Tom Verdot

On 5/17/2019 8:52 AM, Jeffrey Spero via Musicians wrote:
> I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman.  If you have the music in front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do so.  And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing.
>
> The other Jeff
> Culver City, CA
>
>
>> On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians <musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>> I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a contra dance.   Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by ear?  Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds
>>



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 16:49:22 -0500
From: Martha Edwards <meedwards@westendweb.com>
To: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph@gmail.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Spero <jeff@syncopaths.com>,  "A musician's discussion
        list" <musicians@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots
Message-ID:
        <CAJjmMcMfcwipyGyED1kag=Vu_yyywAreaU4aJWeiyb14m1SjiA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Oh, dear. You got me. I have strong feelings about this, largely because,
being lazy, I have never learned to play immediately by ear. But, having
made my living sight-reading for 25 (now 50?) years, I find no barrier
between me and music just because the dots are, well, lines and dots.

The important things, however, that the non-dot players mention, ARE
terribly important - that is

   1. watching the dancers
   2. listening to the other musicians
   3. playing "musically" (by which I mean, knowing how to phrase, that is,
   figuring out where the music is coming from, and where it's going to)
   4. listening to great players in order to learn "style"- that is,
   figuring out the character of each tune, and being able to vary that
   character if wanted or needed

That said, the dots don't have to get in the way. An orchestra player, for
instance, MUST watch the conductor while playing, and a symphony violinist
MUST listen to all the other violinists and play *exactly *with them, and
MUST listen to the whole orchestra and understand the character of the
piece. That's totally like watching the dancers, listening to other
musicians and learning to play with style.

The problem comes when you first learn to play. If it's done right, you
have a good, musical model to follow (sounds like playing by ear, doesn't
it?) instead just playing one note after another, with no shape. The Suzuki
method's brilliance, IMHO, was in providing the children with recordings of
people playing Twinkle Twinkle (and all the other tunes) and getting their
parents to play those recordings over and over for their kids even before
they started learning to hold a violin. Then, when the kids start reading
music (late in the process) they automatically played what they had heard
(i.e., real music), and were able to figure out pretty quickly that those
"dots" are not just little lego pieces, but large sculptures of something
beautiful.

There's more, of course - improvisation, understanding harmonic
progression, etc. - and whether you read music or not influences those
things, too, in different ways, some useful, some not-so-useful.

And there's playing with others - if you give me your dots, we can start
playing together right away, but if I have to memorize your repertoire
first, we may have to wait a while.

Don't get me wrong. I totally admire people who can learn immediately by
ear, and if I had it to do over, would have learned how when I started
playing for dances, but please don't blame boring playing on reading
music.  Instead, figure out how to play interestingly, no matter how you do
it, with or without dots.

M
E

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:12 AM Meg Dedolph via Musicians <
musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Agreed. When I'm learning chords to a tune, if I have them in front of me,
> I tend to rely on the paper and play the same thing over and over. The
> melody players in my band agree as well - we all try to learn things by ear
> first, and use paper in a pinch.
> Meg in Chicago
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:52 AM Jeffrey Spero via Musicians <
> musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman.  If you have the music in
>> front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the
>> page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians
>> and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do
>> so.  And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to
>> learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing.
>>
>> The other Jeff
>> Culver City, CA
>>
>>
>> > On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians <
>> musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a
>> contra dance.   Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by
>> ear?  Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> > _______________________________________________


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 18:37:08 -0500
From: Meg Dedolph <meg.dedolph@gmail.com>
To: Martha Edwards <meedwards@westendweb.com>
Cc: Jeffrey Spero <jeff@syncopaths.com>,  "A musician's discussion
        list" <musicians@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Musicians] Dots
Message-ID:
        <CACs7sFWN5F8K-t2n0vDTNvhwLjPGcJP9_CksvVxWpX0OOnPvJA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Well, having played dances with you, Martha, I think that nobody could
reasonably accuse you of being too dependent on the dots. :)
And in the spirit of confession, everyone in my band either has a music
degree or has studied a lot of classical music before coming to traditional
music, so there are some foundational educational elements we all share
that are based on reading music.
But in thinking about Tom's initial postings over the course of the day,
boring music is boring music, whether it's written down or not.
If his bandmates have their noses stuck in the music at the expense of
listening to the other players, that might be a problem.
It also could be that they're not playing good tunes for dances. It's hard
to tell what would make a band "more interesting" to dance to without
hearing.
I think familiarity with repertoire makes a big difference. I called with a
band recently that mostly plays old-time music, and they sound great. But I
made an offhanded comment about how a particular dance worked well with
jigs and the fiddler recalled a New England jig that he knew, but hadn't
played for a while and decided to try it, but the guitarist was not
comfortable backing jigs and ... the band did not sound as good on that
tune as they did when they were playing old-time reels.
Meg


On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:49 PM Martha Edwards <meedwards@westendweb.com>
wrote:

> Oh, dear. You got me. I have strong feelings about this, largely because,
> being lazy, I have never learned to play immediately by ear. But, having
> made my living sight-reading for 25 (now 50?) years, I find no barrier
> between me and music just because the dots are, well, lines and dots.
>
> The important things, however, that the non-dot players mention, ARE
> terribly important - that is
>
>    1. watching the dancers
>    2. listening to the other musicians
>    3. playing "musically" (by which I mean, knowing how to phrase, that
>    is, figuring out where the music is coming from, and where it's going to)
>    4. listening to great players in order to learn "style"- that is,
>    figuring out the character of each tune, and being able to vary that
>    character if wanted or needed
>
> That said, the dots don't have to get in the way. An orchestra player, for
> instance, MUST watch the conductor while playing, and a symphony violinist
> MUST listen to all the other violinists and play *exactly *with them, and
> MUST listen to the whole orchestra and understand the character of the
> piece. That's totally like watching the dancers, listening to other
> musicians and learning to play with style.
>
> The problem comes when you first learn to play. If it's done right, you
> have a good, musical model to follow (sounds like playing by ear, doesn't
> it?) instead just playing one note after another, with no shape. The Suzuki
> method's brilliance, IMHO, was in providing the children with recordings of
> people playing Twinkle Twinkle (and all the other tunes) and getting their
> parents to play those recordings over and over for their kids even before
> they started learning to hold a violin. Then, when the kids start reading
> music (late in the process) they automatically played what they had heard
> (i.e., real music), and were able to figure out pretty quickly that those
> "dots" are not just little lego pieces, but large sculptures of something
> beautiful.
>
> There's more, of course - improvisation, understanding harmonic
> progression, etc. - and whether you read music or not influences those
> things, too, in different ways, some useful, some not-so-useful.
>
> And there's playing with others - if you give me your dots, we can start
> playing together right away, but if I have to memorize your repertoire
> first, we may have to wait a while.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I totally admire people who can learn immediately by
> ear, and if I had it to do over, would have learned how when I started
> playing for dances, but please don't blame boring playing on reading
> music.  Instead, figure out how to play interestingly, no matter how you do
> it, with or without dots.
>
> M
> E
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:12 AM Meg Dedolph via Musicians <
> musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Agreed. When I'm learning chords to a tune, if I have them in front of
>> me, I tend to rely on the paper and play the same thing over and over. The
>> melody players in my band agree as well - we all try to learn things by ear
>> first, and use paper in a pinch.
>> Meg in Chicago
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 8:52 AM Jeffrey Spero via Musicians <
>> musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I?m in complete agreement with Jeff Kaufman.  If you have the music in
>>> front of you, you?re much more likely to play exactly what you see on the
>>> page as opposed to being in the moment and playing WITH the other musicians
>>> and FOR the dancers. For those that can play by ear, I encourage them to do
>>> so.  And for those who are uncomfortable with that, I encourage them to
>>> learn the music off the page, and then put the music away while playing.
>>>
>>> The other Jeff
>>> Culver City, CA
>>>
>>>
>>> > On May 17, 2019, at 3:53 AM, tom hinds via Musicians <
>>> musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I?d like to know people?s opinion of using music while playing for a
>>> contra dance.   Is it easier to create excitement if the musicians play by
>>> ear?  Thanks in advance for your opinion, Tom Hinds
>>> >