On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 at 4:07 PM, via Musicians <musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Learning/sharing/remembering rhythms
(Yaron Shragai via Musicians)
2. Re: Learning/sharing/remembering rhythms
(Erik Hoffman via Musicians)

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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 17:09:41 -0500
From: Yaron Shragai via Musicians <musicians@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net"
<Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Musicians] Learning/sharing/remembering rhythms
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<CAEPAPhSupdqh0q9iF74XnxeLWOHxguj1UjpeEyDQVQpc5MBing@mail.gmail.com>
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The 123-123-12 rhythm appears in Middle Eastern, Balkan, and African music;
I would more than suspect that its occurrence in contra dance music has
come mainly via the African route, both via the slave influence in
Appalachian music and via the hippy/funky influence in modern contra.

The klezmer/Romanian 123-123-12 has a different inflection to it - a
different articulation - the late great Balkan dance/int'l folk dance
teacher Dick Crum called it a "Get your Papers Here" rhythm - more of a
2;1,2;1,2 articulation than a 3;3;2 articulation.

...Unless the rhythm you're thinking of is the rock-n-roll
boom-chuckboom-boomchuck - in which case we're back to the African
influence...

- Yaron

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 3:31 AM, Erik Hoffman via Musicians <
musicians@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> Hi Max & All,
>
> Interesting that you learned the 3-3-2 rhythm as Klezmer.
>
> - Klezmer rhythm (123-123-12)
>
>
> So many of the people I've studied from say the 3-3-2 came from Africa. It
> has invaded many other genres. When I first learned about it (other than
> the clave), it came at me three times in one year:
> * A bunch of fiddle bowings used in Old-Time Appalachian tunes (highly
> slave influenced)
> * A doumbek rhythm (an Arabic drum)
> * In hamboning--body rhythm with African roots, from when slaves had
> their drums taken away.
> __
>
> Erik Hoffman
> Oakland, CA
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 23:30:00 +0000
From: Erik Hoffman via Musicians <musicians@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net"
<Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Musicians] Learning/sharing/remembering rhythms
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Yaron,

Thanks for this distinction. I?m going to play around with these differences.

~Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA

From: Musicians [mailto:musicians-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Yaron Shragai via Musicians
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 2:10 PM
To: Musicians@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Musicians] Learning/sharing/remembering rhythms

The 123-123-12 rhythm appears in Middle Eastern, Balkan, and African music; I would more than suspect that its occurrence in contra dance music has come mainly via the African route, both via the slave influence in Appalachian music and via the hippy/funky influence in modern contra.

The klezmer/Romanian 123-123-12 has a different inflection to it - a different articulation - the late great Balkan dance/int'l folk dance teacher Dick Crum called it a "Get your Papers Here" rhythm - more of a 2;1,2;1,2 articulation than a 3;3;2 articulation.

...Unless the rhythm you're thinking of is the rock-n-roll boom-chuckboom-boomchuck - in which case we're back to the African influence...

- Yaron

On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 3:31 AM, Erik Hoffman via Musicians <musicians@lists.sharedweight.net<mailto:musicians@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
Hi Max & All,

Interesting that you learned the 3-3-2 rhythm as Klezmer.

- Klezmer rhythm (123-123-12)

So many of the people I've studied from say the 3-3-2 came from Africa. It has invaded many other genres. When I first learned about it (other than the clave), it came at me three times in one year:
* A bunch of fiddle bowings used in Old-Time Appalachian tunes (highly slave influenced)
* A doumbek rhythm (an Arabic drum)
* In hamboning--body rhythm with African roots, from when slaves had their drums taken away.
__

Erik Hoffman
Oakland, CA

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