Larry Jenning's words from Give-and-Take (just in case there is anyone out there who doesn't have, or can't find their copy!): = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = GIVE-AND-TAKE: General definition adopted by some callers and composers: The "swingers", a man and a woman facing across the set, meet, join free hands, retreat to the designated side of the set, and prepare to swing. Unless otherwise specified, the dancers retreat to the man's side. Original implementation: I visualized a very crisp, four-count interpretation. The previous twosomes (not the new twosomes) end the previous figure (perhaps a swing, a promenade, or a courtesy turn) in half shoulder-waist position. The previous twosomes move forward at the start of the phrase, and the swingers form new twosomes by joining free hands (woman's right, man's left). The woman resists for a moment while they establish firm but elastic connection, and they take only two more counts to position themselves to swing a step cw around the entire set from where the man started. This puts the set in SAWTOOTH FORMATION. I was put on the defensive by a woman who let me know in no uncertain terms that she was not about to be given or taken by any man. I felt much relieved, therefore, to find "give-and-take", with the hyphens even, in the dictionary: "the practice of compromise." Now that's my kind of attitude; I even invite you to compromise with your swinger (and with me) by taking up to as many as eight counts for your implementation. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I agree with Colin that it is much more satisfying if you start the move with your arm around the person you just swung and go forward together.             Happy dancing,                    John John Sweeney, Dancer, England   john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive Events & DVDs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent