I had a chance to use Larks and Ravens when I called for the Brooklyn
contra this summer. I really liked it, better than any of the others I've
tried, and got multiple positive comments too. That said, I pulled it off
by making a new set of cards (on my iPad) so that I had the correct terms
in front of me. Once I got started calling, though, the terms felt really
intuitive, both for me and the dancers. I'm so glad that the Brooklyn
organizers were willing to give it a try (they had normally used "leads"
and "follows", which I feel pretty strongly aren't good options for contra
for multiple reasons, both gender related and due to how contra works as a
dance form).
J
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 1:58 PM Carol Geisler via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi Angela, Looking forward to hearing about your personal experiences as a
> caller and dance organizer with these new terms.
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Mary Collins via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> Angela, ah....I see said the blind person. Now it makes sense. Will not
>> work in my home ultra conservative community and I will certainly need to
>> practice replacing. It will be interesting to say the least.
>> Thanks again!
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2017 12:21 AM, "Angela DeCarlis" <aedecarlis(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but
>>> the summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
>>> they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
>>> The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
>>> Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
>>> instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
>>> for English or Square Dancing).
>>>
>>> Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those
>>> labels to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
>>> phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
>>> that's a good thing!
>>>
>>> I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
>>> keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
>>> communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
>>> difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
>>> communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
>>> and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
>>> and dance organizer soon!
>>>
>>> Angela
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more
>>>> mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
>>>> ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome. Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
>>>> are Ravens? Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
>>>> literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
>>>> women & men....not to try to start anything here. I am just trying to
>>>> grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach. Several
>>>> of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
>>>> these terms either. Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
>>>> "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
>>>>
>>>> Mary "24" Collins
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.
>>>> www.avg.com
>>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>
>>>> <#m_1583896410128011869_m_-3056614572501621447_m_7204306495091385479_m_-3621280477174631412_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>>
>>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
>>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change our gender so we could
>>>>> understand what it's like to be the other sex.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who
>>>>> belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like
>>>>> Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the
>>>>> word "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman".
>>>>> The latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership
>>>>> to its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
>>>>> "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
>>>>> gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
>>>>>
>>>>> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
>>>>> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
>>>>> "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
>>>>> feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
>>>>> slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the
>>>>> terms are used interchangeably.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
>>>>> terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
>>>>> learning about each other through conversations like this!
>>>>>
>>>>> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've
>>>>> seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the
>>>>> summer. It's been truly remarkable!
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Til then,
>>>>> Angela
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share
>>>>>> the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit
>>>>>> that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
>>>>>> communities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
>>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's
>>>>>>> the issue?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>>>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and
>>>>>>> not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star”
>>>>>>> everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing
>>>>>>> terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin
>>>>>>> into the star wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for
>>>>>>> roles, not genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to
>>>>>>> be a four letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I
>>>>>>> still find it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have
>>>>>>> changed, now people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct
>>>>>>> the “g-word” use on this version
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>> Archives:
>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
--
Jack Mitchell
Durham, NC
Hi Angela, Looking forward to hearing about your personal experiences as a
caller and dance organizer with these new terms.
On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 1:33 PM, Mary Collins via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Angela, ah....I see said the blind person. Now it makes sense. Will not
> work in my home ultra conservative community and I will certainly need to
> practice replacing. It will be interesting to say the least.
> Thanks again!
>
> On Oct 15, 2017 12:21 AM, "Angela DeCarlis" <aedecarlis(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the
>> summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
>> they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
>> The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
>> Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
>> instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
>> for English or Square Dancing).
>>
>> Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those
>> labels to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
>> phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
>> that's a good thing!
>>
>> I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
>> keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
>> communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
>> difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
>> communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
>> and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
>> and dance organizer soon!
>>
>> Angela
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more
>>> mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
>>> ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome. Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
>>> are Ravens? Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
>>> literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
>>> women & men....not to try to start anything here. I am just trying to
>>> grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach. Several
>>> of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
>>> these terms either. Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
>>> "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
>>>
>>> Mary "24" Collins
>>>
>>>
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.
>>> www.avg.com
>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>
>>> <#m_-3056614572501621447_m_7204306495091385479_m_-3621280477174631412_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>
>>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about
>>> learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change our gender so we could
>>>> understand what it's like to be the other sex.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who
>>>> belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like
>>>> Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the
>>>> word "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman".
>>>> The latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership
>>>> to its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
>>>> "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
>>>> gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
>>>>
>>>> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
>>>> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
>>>> "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
>>>> feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
>>>> slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>>>>
>>>> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms
>>>> are used interchangeably.
>>>>
>>>> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
>>>> terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
>>>> learning about each other through conversations like this!
>>>>
>>>> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've
>>>> seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the
>>>> summer. It's been truly remarkable!
>>>>
>>>> 'Til then,
>>>> Angela
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share
>>>>> the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit
>>>>> that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
>>>>> communities.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's
>>>>>> the issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and
>>>>>> not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star”
>>>>>> everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing
>>>>>> terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin
>>>>>> into the star wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for
>>>>>> roles, not genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to
>>>>>> be a four letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I
>>>>>> still find it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have
>>>>>> changed, now people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct
>>>>>> the “g-word” use on this version
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/c
>>>>>> allers(a)lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/c
>>>>> allers(a)lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
Angela, ah....I see said the blind person. Now it makes sense. Will not
work in my home ultra conservative community and I will certainly need to
practice replacing. It will be interesting to say the least.
Thanks again!
On Oct 15, 2017 12:21 AM, "Angela DeCarlis" <aedecarlis(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the
> summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
> they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
> The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
> Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
> instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
> for English or Square Dancing).
>
> Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those
> labels to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
> phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
> that's a good thing!
>
> I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
> keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
> communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
> difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
> communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
> and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
> and dance organizer soon!
>
> Angela
>
> On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more
>> mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
>> ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome. Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
>> are Ravens? Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
>> literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
>> women & men....not to try to start anything here. I am just trying to
>> grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach. Several
>> of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
>> these terms either. Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
>> "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
>>
>> Mary "24" Collins
>>
>>
>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.
>> www.avg.com
>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>
>> <#m_7204306495091385479_m_-3621280477174631412_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
>> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change our gender so we could
>>> understand what it's like to be the other sex.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who
>>> belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like
>>> Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the
>>> word "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman".
>>> The latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership
>>> to its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
>>> "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
>>> gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
>>>
>>> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
>>> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
>>> "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
>>> feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
>>> slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>>>
>>> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms
>>> are used interchangeably.
>>>
>>> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
>>> terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
>>> learning about each other through conversations like this!
>>>
>>> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've
>>> seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the
>>> summer. It's been truly remarkable!
>>>
>>> 'Til then,
>>> Angela
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share
>>>> the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit
>>>> that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
>>>> communities.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's the
>>>>> issue?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not
>>>>> just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody
>>>>> starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology).
>>>>> Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star
>>>>> wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for roles, not
>>>>> genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four
>>>>> letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find
>>>>> it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now
>>>>> people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word”
>>>>> use on this version
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/c
>>>>> allers(a)lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the
summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that
they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing.
The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and
Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance
instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call
for English or Square Dancing).
Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those labels
to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are
phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not
that's a good thing!
I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for
keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the
communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive
difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the
communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere,
and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller
and dance organizer soon!
Angela
On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more
> mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for
> ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome. Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly
> are Ravens? Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from
> literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or
> women & men....not to try to start anything here. I am just trying to
> grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach. Several
> of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand
> these terms either. Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in
> "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.
>
> Mary "24" Collins
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…> Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_cam…>
> <#m_-3621280477174631412_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> “Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning
> to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown
>
> On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds(a)earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change our gender so we could
>> understand what it's like to be the other sex.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
>>
>> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who belong
>> to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like Mary
>> and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the word
>> "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman". The
>> latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership to
>> its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
>> "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
>> gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
>>
>> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
>> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
>> "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
>> feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
>> slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>>
>> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms
>> are used interchangeably.
>>
>> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
>> terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
>> learning about each other through conversations like this!
>>
>> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've seen
>> at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the summer.
>> It's been truly remarkable!
>>
>> 'Til then,
>> Angela
>>
>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share the
>>> true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit that
>>> tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
>>> communities.
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's the
>>>> issue?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>>>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not
>>>> just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody
>>>> starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology).
>>>> Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star
>>>> wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for roles, not
>>>> genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four
>>>> letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find
>>>> it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now
>>>> people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word”
>>>> use on this version
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>>>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>>>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
Thanks Angela. If only we could easily change our gender so we could
understand what it's like to be the other sex.
On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:
> Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who
> belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and,
> presumably, like Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural
> movement to abolish the word "Lady", along with its restrictive
> connotations, in favor of "Woman". The latter label, I understand,
> was one which lent more power and ownership to its wearers, and so
> was preferable. You could be however you were, "ladylike" or not,
> and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've gotten
> anything wrong or missed anything!)
>
> My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
> Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms
> like "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady"
> and "Gent" feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are
> words that are slightly more flexible, in some ways.
>
> One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the
> terms are used interchangeably.
>
> This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to
> role terms in dance today! I *love* our community's
> intergenerationality, and learning about each other through
> conversations like this!
>
> Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes
> I've seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the
> beginning of the summer. It's been truly remarkable!
>
> 'Til then,
> Angela
>
> On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers"
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you
> share the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies
> (I don't fit that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE
> identifer" for my communities.
>
> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers"
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's
> the issue?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and
> not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star”
> everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that
> confusing terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The
> move from mad robin into the star wrong actually flows quite well.
> I use men and women for roles, not genders. When I first started
> calling, we considered “lady” to be a four letter word - women’s
> movement and bra burning and all that. I still find it hard to use
> the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now people
> bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word”
> use on this version
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net/
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net/
>
Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who belong
to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like Mary
and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the word
"Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman". The
latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership to
its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were,
"ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've
gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)
My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender
Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like
"Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent"
feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are
slightly more flexible, in some ways.
One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms are
used interchangeably.
This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role
terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and
learning about each other through conversations like this!
Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've seen
at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the summer.
It's been truly remarkable!
'Til then,
Angela
On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share the
> true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit that
> tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my
> communities.
>
> On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's the
>> issue?
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <
>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not
>> just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody
>> starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology).
>> Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star
>> wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for roles, not
>> genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four
>> letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find
>> it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now
>> people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word”
>> use on this version
>> _______________________________________________
>> List Name: Callers mailing list
>> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Name: Callers mailing list
> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
>
>
I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies". What's the issue?
Sent from my iPad
> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star wrong actually flows quite well. I use men and women for roles, not genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word” use on this version
I have such fond memories of Marie from my first dancing days-what an inspiration and delight!
Susan
From: Jerome Grisanti via Callers
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2017 11:37 PM
To: trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com ; ecd(a)bacds.org ; callers
Subject: [Callers] Marie Cassady of Louisville
Lovers of traditional dance,
It is with sadness I announce that Marie Cassady, a dancer and teacher of dance in Louisville Kentucky for many many years, died on Sunday afternoon. She was 104, just two months shy of 105.
Marie founded Louisville Country Dancers, which has since become a mostly contra dance group, but in the day featured English dance as well, and even occasional international dances.
I first met her in the mid 1970s, when she and husband Frank Cassady taught Italian folk dances to a performance troupe that my siblings were involved in. (I was too young to join the first few years). As it turns out, they also taught performance troupes for many ethnic groups.
She was interested in many things besides dance, including national and international travel. She also sang with her church group for many years. As well, she reared several children and was a maternal figure for many others.
A few years ago, she related to me her memories of the influenza epidemic of 1919. Imagine that, she had memories of her father from that time, and of Camp Taylor in Louisville! She also talked about the 1937 flood of the Ohio River.
She slowed a bit over the years, remaining active in English and international but leaving contra to younger bodies. She also took up hula dancing in her 90s. Gotta keep learning!
She remained active and mentally sharp until very recently. I saw her in August, and she immediately called me by name.
There will be a memorial service for Marie in early November, but the details are not yet determined.
Many thanks to you, Marie Cassady, for introducing so many people to dance and the communities it engenders. I am grateful to have known you.
Jerome Grisanti
--
Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Dear Friends,
Caller's Companion just got it’s 100th user today!
Thanks to everyone for their support, feedback and patience over the last 8 years in making CC an invaluable tool for Contra Dance (and some ECD) callers. I hope to be able to continue improvements in the future. As a labor-of-love / shareware project, you're sharing CC with other callers and showing them how you use it helps spread the word and also support future efforts as well as the hundreds of hours that I've already invested in it.
Special thanks to Bev Bernbaum, my initial beta tester; Linda Leslie, who provided invaluable feedback in the early years and made feature suggestions to support ECD calling; and Nils Fredland, for extensive feedback around iPad use.
Thank you again!
Love, Will
http://callerscompanion.com
--
Will Loving
2419 S York St Apt 5
Denver CO 80210-5319
413-253-7223 (desk)
413-221-8626 (iPhone)
One of mine:
Polka-geist
Formation: Becket formation, reverse progression
Music: 32 bar polkas
Source: Keith Wood November 2014
Notes: Someone at dancing mentioned "Polka-geist" as a pun. What a great
dance name I thought. So developed a Contra dance with a polka feel and
scary and back-to-front moves.
A1 In ballroom hold, gallop across the set, the couple on the women's
normal side separating to let the couple on the men's normal side pass
through (4 beats)
Polka balance towards the centre of the set (4 beats)
Gallop across the set, the couple on the women's side separating to let
the couple on the men's side through (4 beats)
Polka balance towards the centre of the set (4 beats)
A2 Polka once around the other couple and continue anti-clockwise
around the set to progress to the next couple
B1 Allemande partner right half-way (4 beats)
Balance the long wavy lines (make a face or say boo to your neighbour)
(4 beats)
Allemande partner right half-way (4 beats)
Balance the long wavy lines (make a face or say boo to your neighbour)
(4 beats)
B2 Men's chain across and back, left hand to other man, right hand to
opposite woman and turn
http://www.dancekaleidoscope.org.au/dance.html#Polka-geist
Cheers
Keith Wood
> Hello Friends,
> I need some Halloween themed dances. Any suggestions?
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/
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