On Mon, Feb 22, 2016, Jerome Grisanti via Callers wrote:
>
> One other thing you might encounter is different interpretations of
> language and timing. So for example I've seen MWSD groups perform a
> "do-si-do" as a four-count swing rather than an 8-count back-to-back. And
> I've seen chains take six counts, with the other two counts spent wondering
> why the caller hasn't prompted the next move already.
These are *not* standard MWSD timings. In fact, the official timing for
dosado is six beats (eight from static square), and I got into an
argument with an MWSD caller a few years back when he claimed that it
was, is, and always shall be eight and only eight beats for dosado. Then
he was flummoxed when I pulled out my smartphone and showed him that
CALLERLAB disagreed with him.
(Some of y'all might guess exactly which caller I'm referring to by the
way I'm phrasing this. ;-)
Similarly, I've seen instructors at caller schools beating on callers who
fail to properly give the dancers enough time for "up to the middle and
back".
OTOH, it's sadly true that (as other posts in this thread have noted)
square dancers and callers mostly don't pay much attention to phrasing.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html
Can anyone ID this dance and author? I found it on a Youtube video but it
wasn't named.
A1 Bal & Sw N
A2 Men Almd L 1-1 /2 Sw Ptnr
B1 Sq Thru - (Rt hand Bal N, pull by, pull by Ptnr w/ left, repeat)
B2 Bal ring, Petronella, Bal Ring, Calif Twirl
Thanks in advance...
Linda Thomas
Wilmington, NC
coastaldancer(a)ec.rr.com
Joseph,
One other thing you might encounter is different interpretations of
language and timing. So for example I've seen MWSD groups perform a
"do-si-do" as a four-count swing rather than an 8-count back-to-back. And
I've seen chains take six counts, with the other two counts spent wondering
why the caller hasn't prompted the next move already.
You may not see these things, per se, but be flexible if they interpret
your call differently than you intended -- mentally acknowledge that they
correctly interpreted your call, and if it needs to be different for contra
reasons just explain that you're asking them to do that thing a little
differently tonight.
You might look at the list of things that they will already know:
http://www.callerlab.org/Dance-Programs and look for "Basic/Mainstream
List."
And have fun. The fun is what it's all about.
--Jerome.
Jerome Grisanti
660-528-0858
http://www.jeromegrisanti.com
"Whatever you do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius and power
and magic in it." --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:35 AM, Rich Sbardella via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Tom and Joseph,
> The organization Tom referred to is called ContraLab. It still exists,
> but is quite small. Several of the contra callers at last summer's
> National Square Dance Convention, in Massachusetts, were ContraLab members.
> One book by Don Armstrong is called "Contras...with 101 Ready to Call
> Contras". It was published in 1973 by Sets in Order.
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Joseph,
>>
>> Everyone's given you great advice.
>>
>> If I were doing this I would use music that they're more used to for the
>> first evening. And I'd use dances that they can more easily relate to (see
>> below). That might make for a easier transition and more acceptance (and
>> therefore more enjoyment).
>>
>> I don't know about now but at one time there was a western contra dance
>> movement. I'm sure the dances they used would be perfect for your group.
>> One source for material is a book on contras put out by Sets in Order. You
>> want my copy? And Don Armstrong put out a collection of dances. Sorry I
>> don't recall the name of the book. I think a good number of the dances in
>> both collections have no or little swinging and also include many of the
>> moves they are familiar with like flutterwheel etc. Maybe google western
>> contra.
>>
>> As far as I can tell the music they use(d) is recorded but phrased farily
>> well.
>>
>> Tom
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
The Don Armstrong book is actually called "The Caller/Teacher Manual for
Contras...With 101 Ready-To-Call Contras".
Rich
On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 10:35 AM, Rich Sbardella <richsbardella(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
> Tom and Joseph,
> The organization Tom referred to is called ContraLab. It still exists,
> but is quite small. Several of the contra callers at last summer's
> National Square Dance Convention, in Massachusetts, were ContraLab members.
> One book by Don Armstrong is called "Contras...with 101 Ready to Call
> Contras". It was published in 1973 by Sets in Order.
> Rich Sbardella
> Stafford, CT
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 9:08 AM, Tom Hinds via Callers <
> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Joseph,
>>
>> Everyone's given you great advice.
>>
>> If I were doing this I would use music that they're more used to for the
>> first evening. And I'd use dances that they can more easily relate to (see
>> below). That might make for a easier transition and more acceptance (and
>> therefore more enjoyment).
>>
>> I don't know about now but at one time there was a western contra dance
>> movement. I'm sure the dances they used would be perfect for your group.
>> One source for material is a book on contras put out by Sets in Order. You
>> want my copy? And Don Armstrong put out a collection of dances. Sorry I
>> don't recall the name of the book. I think a good number of the dances in
>> both collections have no or little swinging and also include many of the
>> moves they are familiar with like flutterwheel etc. Maybe google western
>> contra.
>>
>> As far as I can tell the music they use(d) is recorded but phrased farily
>> well.
>>
>> Tom
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>
>
Joseph,
Everyone's given you great advice.
If I were doing this I would use music that they're more used to for
the first evening. And I'd use dances that they can more easily
relate to (see below). That might make for a easier transition and
more acceptance (and therefore more enjoyment).
I don't know about now but at one time there was a western contra
dance movement. I'm sure the dances they used would be perfect for
your group. One source for material is a book on contras put out by
Sets in Order. You want my copy? And Don Armstrong put out a
collection of dances. Sorry I don't recall the name of the book. I
think a good number of the dances in both collections have no or
little swinging and also include many of the moves they are familiar
with like flutterwheel etc. Maybe google western contra.
As far as I can tell the music they use(d) is recorded but phrased
farily well.
Tom
On 2/21/2016 12:19 AM, Chris Page via Callers wrote:
> I'd really recommend talking to the organizers. And possibly watching
> one of their normal events.
>
> Here's some of my thoughts on potential biggies:
>
> -Many people will likely keep the same partner throughout the evening.
>
> -The expected flow of the evening is very different -- typically they're
> used to doing two dances with the same partner of about 6-10 (?)
> minutes, and then a rest break. Potentially involving snacks. Rinse and
> repeat.
>
> -Swings are neither expected nor required. Without further instruction,
> they'll go just once around, twirl, and stop.
>
> -Be very careful about too much consecutive clockwise motion.
>
> -You may have to adjust for the age level of the group. In general, MWSD
> groups tend to be older.
>
> -They're really not used to hearing the phrase of the music.
>
> -Dropping out the calls may be traumatic for some.
>
> -Contra is much more aerobic than squares.
It sounds like asymmetrical dances where half the people can rest while
the others are doing something could be handy additions to your
repertoire. That would address a lot of these issues.
Kalia
Check this out:
http://www.tiac.net/~mabaker/how-contra-dances-work.html
Clark Baker is a MWSD caller and a contra dancer, and he wrote an article explaining the differences.
Lisa
>
> On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
>
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd give it a shot.
>
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their space.
>
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
>
> Best regards,
> Joseph
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Lisa
Hi Joseph
I do a lot of cross-calling between contra and MWSD with mixed crowds of varying experience, and whilst agreeing with everything that’s been said so far, I think there’s one thing it’s important not to lose sight of.
You said “and had such a fun time they have invited me, and the band”. Since they invited you after coming to one of your dances, then one of your dances is what they both want and are expecting. Whilst you may need to make minor adjustments due to the age and dance experience of the dancers, it would IMHO be a mistake to try to make it feel like MWSD.
Jeremy
On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd give it a shot.
I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their space.
Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
Best regards,
Joseph
_______________________________________________
Callers mailing list
Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Hello Joseph,
I have lots of experience working in such an environment. As Chris said,
the swing is the biggest issue. MWSD rotate once and Twirl out of the
swing. (A good swing worksphop would help.) When calling to such groups,
I limit the swings to eight beats, (Replace a balance & swing, with a DSD
& swing) Select your dances carefully.
Also since MWSDers are used to moving to the beat and not the phrase, I
would use simple wholeset dances, like Galopede, to initiate them to the
phase. Also a couple of New England style squares would help.
Another area of difficuly is progressions, so chose them carefully. Becket
dances usually work well.
As a final bit of advice, introduce new calls slowly, until the dancers are
comfortable with contra. There are so many calls that overlap both
communities such as Box the Gnat, Rollaway, and California Twirl, that you
will have lots of dances to choose from. Once you win them over, you can
add calls that are not on their lists, such as Hey for Four and Mad Robin.
I am excited about your opportunity, and would enjoy getting a report back,
about your success.
Rich Sbardella
Stafford, CT
On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 6:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few
> local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and
> around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an
> invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm
> back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
>
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our
> local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have
> invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series
> in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd
> give it a shot.
>
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their
> education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is
> mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by
> assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the
> music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins
> to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about
> crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm
> particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with
> the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their
> space.
>
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't
> have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
>
> Best regards,
> Joseph
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Hi Joseph,
Several years ago there was a national MWSD convention here in Portland. They hired a local contra dance band, rented an hall, and put on a contra dance for the attendees. The band invited dancers from the local contra dance community. Their callers did the contra calling. Aside from not really being on the phrase sometimes, they did a find job. I think they are more familiar with contra than you might think. They referred to contra dances as ‘energizer’ dances. Will they let you invite any dancers from the local contra community?
Also, I would strongly suggest that you post this question to trad-dance-callers(a)yahoogroups.com. That list has a good mix of MWSD and contra callers, so you’ll get some inside advice there.
It sure sounds like to me that they liked their experience at your local dance, and want to recreate that for their dance community. If it’s to be a monthly series, then it will evolve.
My two cents, Rich
> On Feb 20, 2016, at 3:28 PM, Joseph Erhard-Hudson via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been pretty low-key on calling for several years now, just a few local dances a year. Years ago I did close to one gig a month at home and around my local region, but cut back due to busy life. Now I've accepted an invitation for a regular gig that's going to be a bit different, so I'm back on this email list, and I seek your advice.
>
> A few people from the nearby Western Square Dance group came to one of our local contra dances where I was calling, and had such a fun time they have invited me, and the band from that evening, to come and do a monthly series in their hall, promoted and sponsored by them. The band and I decided we'd give it a shot.
>
> I've had barely any exposure to Western Square Dance, but I know their education system is formalized, calling is improvised, and the music is mostly recorded; whereas in contra dancing the education is more by assimilation, the calling is mostly fixed within a given dance, and the music is live and improvised. I anticipate we may feel like strange cousins to each other. Do any of you have any experiences or thoughts about crossing over into this parallel universe of traditional dancers? I'm particularly concerned about how I can best help them feel comfortable with the way Contra Dance is done, and how I can be a gracious presence in their space.
>
> Bonus question: they want to know how to split the gate, since they don't have experience paying bands. Your thoughts?
>
> Best regards,
> Joseph
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
