Import1 January 2017

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Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

by Andrea Nettleton via Callers

Really Angela? Huge numbers are offended by "gents/ladies"? I'll happily call with whatever the community uses, though I may avoid a community using lead/follow as I think it perniciously encourages passivity in half the dancers, which I object to. And I was vocal in earlier discussions about positional calling being a preferable alternative. (Alan, I'll get back to you about short calls). But where are the stats? I believe there may be some objectors. And some who support them. But … [View More]vast numbers? Clear majority? Don't see it. I'm willing to be wrong, but I call all over the country and have not seen this. -Andrea Sent from my external brain > On Jan 27, 2017, at 9:04 AM, Angela DeCarlis via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > For what it's worth, "Larks" and "Ravens" were terms designed to correlate with "Left" and "Right". > > There are plenty of moves we do in contra with names that have nothing to do with anything. Like "Swat the Flea," or even "Chain". Head over to Square Dancing, and the vernacular is so huge that plenty of the names for moves fail to describe the exact movements in question. > > Here's the thing, y'all: a huge number of dancers feel alienated by gendered terms. This is the same issue seen in major politics with regards to gendered restrooms: many people (gay, straight, and otherwise) don't feel comfortable or happy being forced into a dichotomous gender binary when, in actuality, many of us exist somewhere between two points in a spectrum. [1] Notably, it's different to feel "offended" than to feel "unwelcome." Many of you claim to feel the former, but that's a privilege compared to feeling unwelcome or even shunned from a community. > > And many people are fine with things the way they are! I get that, and that's great for you, but why on earth wouldn't you change things if it meant being more inclusive, more just? If you're a dancer who's afraid that things will be more confusing for you...try dancing at a genderfree dance! Not only have I found that the dancers at those dances are not any more confused than at regular dance series, I've found them more competent, and happier. They have this amazing ability to embrace the unexpected and smile and dance with whoever's coming at them. I've seen first-time dancers dancing together and accidentally switching roles every time through the dance, and nobody told them they were doing it wrong. They just danced with them, and it was great! In short, they are better dancers. > > And since most of us here are callers: Yes, it's on us to put in a bit more work. I've now called using Jets/Rubies and Bands/Bares, and while I prefer the former set, neither was impossibly challenging. Neither was as difficult as walking through a new dance for the first time. > > If you care for the health of our shared community, I implore you to do the work. Read the materials, especially the research that Ron, Jeff, and others have linked to here. Investigate the politics around gender and genderfree restrooms. Try dancing or even calling for a genderfree series. > > Thank you all so much for taking the time to participate in this conversation and for taking the energy to consider both sides. I'll look forward to seeing you all on the dance floor. > > Angela > > [1] http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/breaking-through-the-binary-gen… > >> On Jan 27, 2017 3:08 AM, "Jim Hemphill via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> You can teach and call contra dances positionally without hurting anyones feelings. We are all human beings, I find it objectionable to be referred to as some form of rock or bird or whatever. >> >> The role a dancer chooses is really defined by which side of their partnership they choose to start the dance or end a swing on. Working from that basis just about any contra move can be taught or called without reference to gender. >> >>> On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:01 PM, via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> I have been calling at many venues over the years and using the role terms "gents" and "ladies" has NOT been a problem. When teaching, I explain these DO NOT refer to gender but rather to the role you are dancing. Beginners seem to understand and not have any problem. The experienced dancers are very helpful as well. I agree with Donna in the aspect of teaching a new vocabulary that goes with a movement with new words that don't have any relationship to the moves is confusing enough to me, who understands the process. Throw all this at new dancers who move from venue to venue where the terms change, makes my head hurt as well. There is an old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Maybe we should all rethink this. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Donna Hunt via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >>> To: contraron <contraron(a)gmail.com>; babsgroh <babsgroh(a)gmail.com> >>> Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >>> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 12:37 pm >>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies" >>> >>> I'm sad to hear that so many groups are using different role terms and such a variety to boot. Not only do our beginners have to learn a brand new vocabulary (sometimes in a foreign language) and then remember the movement to go with those new words, but now they have to deal with remembering a role that there's no basis for, and that role term changes at different dance locations. Augh my head hurts just thinking about it. >>> >>> Donna >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >>> To: Barbara Groh <babsgroh(a)gmail.com> >>> Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >>> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 3:37 am >>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies" >>> >>> Let's please not presume to speak for the feelings of marginalized groups? >>> >>> Not thinking something is a problem because it doesn't affect you personally is super privileged. >>> >>> Ron Blechner >>> >>>> On Jan 25, 2017 1:36 PM, "Barbara Groh via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> Michael, if this view makes you a Luddite, sign me up as a member of the Luddite Club. I think it's realistic to say that the members of all the contra, English, and Square Dance groups will NEVER all agree on which alternative terms to use for ladies and gents, so all these new terms being bounced around will only cause confusion (and some eye-rolling). >>>> >>>> You've already made a solid argument for the Luddite position, so I won't say anything more....except this: Please, let's not start an argument over whether it's pejorative to use the term Luddite! >>>> >>>> Barbara Groh >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>> I guess that I am a Luddite. Here's how I see it. >>>>> >>>>> Somewhere between 80-90% of the population is 'straight'. Surely, we >>>>> want these people as well to come to our dances. It can be difficult enough to get past the dance lingo without adding the complexity of renaming labels for people that almost everyone already understands. To me, what really matters is that we run dances where everyone accepts everyone else's sexuality; where individual dancers can feel free to dance either role; where everyone is welcome. I am not convinced that 'non-straight' individuals are put off by the historical labels that we use, rather the lack of the 3 conditions that I have just outlined. >>>>> >>>>> Census data show the U.S. adult population is about 239m. Searching the >>>>> web I can find around 300 contra dances, 150 English Country Dances and >>>>> 1000 MWSD clubs. My generous guess is that less than 100,000 people go >>>>> to these dances, less than 50,000 if we ignore MWSD. Did you know that over 700,000 people in the U.S. own a ferret? That means there are 7x as many people in the USA who own a ferret compared to the number of people who go to our dances! >>>>> >>>>> Let's put less rather than more barriers in the way of getting those >>>>> who don't dance with us (that's 99.6% of the population) to join us. >>>>> >>>>> Michael Barraclough >>>>> www.michaelbarraclough.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, 2017-01-24 at 16:19 -0500, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote: >>>>> > I know I'd appreciate it if people had new suggestions, they'd review >>>>> > existing considerations for what makes terms usable. Things like 1:2 >>>>> > syllable ratio, distinct vowel sounds - these disqualify a lot of >>>>> > terms as being unfeasible for the same reason "bare arms / arm bands" >>>>> > as terms are not preferable. The PDF spreadsheet that Dugan linked is >>>>> > the result of my study with teamwork and sourcing from many dancers. >>>>> > >>>>> > Best, >>>>> > Ron Blechner >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Jan 20, 2017 7:28 PM, "Keith Tuxhorn via Callers" <callers(a)lists.s >>>>> > haredweight.net> wrote: >>>>> > > This conversation exhausts me, even though I know and accept it's >>>>> > > all part of the folk process. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > So I will make my one contribution... two terms I thought of a >>>>> > > couple weeks ago. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Mun and Wem. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > They sound enough like the current terms that the brains of both >>>>> > > callers and dancers can make an easy transition. They're made-up >>>>> > > words, so they have no gender. And they're short. And easy to say. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Mun and Wem. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Okay, I've done my bit. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Keith Tuxhorn >>>>> > > Springfield IL >>>>> > > >>>>> > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Dugan Murphy via Callers <callers@ >>>>> > > lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>>> > > > Since it was an article about my dance series that started this >>>>> > > > conversation about role terms, I'll offer that the primary reason >>>>> > > > we chose "jets" and "rubies" as gender-free terms is so that >>>>> > > > regular contra dancers from other places can come in and dance >>>>> > > > without needing anything to be explained to them since the terms >>>>> > > > are pretty similar to "gents" and "ladies." >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > We also took a look at this graphic of Ron Blechner's analysis of >>>>> > > > gender-free role terms people have been talking about: http://amh >>>>> > > > erstcontra.org/ContraDanceRoleTerms.pdf >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > We may not use "jets" and "rubies" forever, but we figured we'd >>>>> > > > give it a try. There didn't seem to be any reasons not to try >>>>> > > > and there are certainly plenty of reasons to try. >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > Most men at our dance dance as jets and most women dance as >>>>> > > > rubies, but for the few who dance opposite, switch around, or >>>>> > > > whose gender expression doesn't fit the man/woman binary, I'd >>>>> > > > like to think that formally separating dance roles from gender is >>>>> > > > validating in a meaningful way. >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > Dugan Murphy >>>>> > > > Portland, Maine >>>>> > > > dugan at duganmurphy.com >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > www.DuganMurphy.com >>>>> > > > www.PortlandIntownContraDance.com >>>>> > > > www.NufSed.consulting >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > > > Callers mailing list >>>>> > > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> > > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.n >>>>> > > > et >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > > Callers mailing list >>>>> > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>> > Callers mailing list >>>>> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Callers mailing list >>>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net [View Less]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

by Angela DeCarlis via Callers

For what it's worth, "Larks" and "Ravens" were terms designed to correlate with "Left" and "Right". There are plenty of moves we do in contra with names that have nothing to do with anything. Like "Swat the Flea," or even "Chain". Head over to Square Dancing, and the vernacular is so huge that plenty of the names for moves fail to describe the exact movements in question. Here's the thing, y'all: a huge number of dancers feel alienated by gendered terms. This is the same issue seen in major … [View More]politics with regards to gendered restrooms: many people (gay, straight, and otherwise) don't feel comfortable or happy being forced into a dichotomous gender binary when, in actuality, many of us exist somewhere between two points in a spectrum. [1] Notably, it's different to feel "offended" than to feel "unwelcome." Many of you claim to feel the former, but that's a privilege compared to feeling unwelcome or even shunned from a community. And many people are fine with things the way they are! I get that, and that's great for you, but why on earth wouldn't you change things if it meant being more inclusive, more just? If you're a dancer who's afraid that things will be more confusing for you...try dancing at a genderfree dance! Not only have I found that the dancers at those dances are not any more confused than at regular dance series, I've found them more competent, and *happier*. They have this amazing ability to embrace the unexpected and smile and dance with whoever's coming at them. I've seen first-time dancers dancing together and accidentally switching roles every time through the dance, *and nobody told them they were doing it wrong. *They just danced with them, and it was great! In short, *they are better dancers*. And since most of us here are callers: Yes, it's on us to put in a bit more work. I've now called using Jets/Rubies and Bands/Bares, and while I prefer the former set, neither was impossibly challenging. Neither was as difficult as walking through a new dance for the first time. If you care for the health of our shared community, I implore you to do the work. Read the materials, especially the research that Ron, Jeff, and others have linked to here. Investigate the politics around gender and genderfree restrooms. Try dancing or even calling for a genderfree series. Thank you all so much for taking the time to participate in this conversation and for taking the energy to consider both sides. I'll look forward to seeing you all on the dance floor. Angela [1] http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/breaking-through-the-binary-gen… On Jan 27, 2017 3:08 AM, "Jim Hemphill via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > You can teach and call contra dances positionally without hurting anyones > feelings. We are all human beings, I find it objectionable to be referred > to as some form of rock or bird or whatever. > > The role a dancer chooses is really defined by which side of their > partnership they choose to start the dance or end a swing on. Working from > that basis just about any contra move can be taught or called without > reference to gender. > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 5:01 PM, via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight. > net> wrote: > >> I have been calling at many venues over the years and using the role >> terms "gents" and "ladies" has NOT been a problem. When teaching, I >> explain these DO NOT refer to gender but rather to the role you are >> dancing. Beginners seem to understand and not have any problem. The >> experienced dancers are very helpful as well. I agree with Donna in the >> aspect of teaching a new vocabulary that goes with a movement with new >> words that don't have any relationship to the moves is confusing enough to >> me, who understands the process. Throw all this at new dancers who move >> from venue to venue where the terms change, makes my head hurt as well. >> There is an old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Maybe we should >> all rethink this. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Donna Hunt via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >> To: contraron <contraron(a)gmail.com>; babsgroh <babsgroh(a)gmail.com> >> Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 12:37 pm >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies" >> >> I'm sad to hear that so many groups are using different role terms and >> such a variety to boot. Not only do our beginners have to learn a brand >> new vocabulary (sometimes in a foreign language) and then remember the >> movement to go with those new words, but now they have to deal with >> remembering a role that there's no basis for, and that role term changes at >> different dance locations. Augh my head hurts just thinking about it. >> >> Donna >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >> To: Barbara Groh <babsgroh(a)gmail.com> >> Cc: callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> >> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 3:37 am >> Subject: Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies" >> >> Let's please not presume to speak for the feelings of marginalized >> groups? >> >> Not thinking something is a problem because it doesn't affect you >> personally is super privileged. >> >> Ron Blechner >> >> On Jan 25, 2017 1:36 PM, "Barbara Groh via Callers" < >> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> >>> Michael, if this view makes you a Luddite, sign me up as a member of the >>> Luddite Club. I think it's realistic to say that the members of all the >>> contra, English, and Square Dance groups will NEVER all agree on which >>> alternative terms to use for ladies and gents, so all these new terms being >>> bounced around will only cause confusion (and some eye-rolling). >>> >>> You've already made a solid argument for the Luddite position, so I >>> won't say anything more....except this: Please, let's not start an >>> argument over whether it's pejorative to use the term Luddite! >>> >>> Barbara Groh >>> >>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers < >>> callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>> >>>> I guess that I am a Luddite. Here's how I see it. >>>> >>>> Somewhere between 80-90% of the population is 'straight'. Surely, we >>>> want these people as well to come to our dances. It can be difficult >>>> enough to get past the dance lingo without adding the complexity of >>>> renaming labels for people that almost everyone already understands. To me, >>>> what really matters is that we run dances where everyone accepts everyone >>>> else's sexuality; where individual dancers can feel free to dance either >>>> role; where everyone is welcome. I am not convinced that 'non-straight' >>>> individuals are put off by the historical labels that we use, rather the >>>> lack of the 3 conditions that I have just outlined. >>>> >>>> Census data show the U.S. adult population is about 239m. Searching the >>>> web I can find around 300 contra dances, 150 English Country Dances and >>>> 1000 MWSD clubs. My generous guess is that less than 100,000 people go >>>> to these dances, less than 50,000 if we ignore MWSD. Did you know that >>>> over 700,000 people in the U.S. own a ferret? That means there are 7x as >>>> many people in the USA who own a ferret compared to the number of people >>>> who go to our dances! >>>> >>>> Let's put less rather than more barriers in the way of getting those >>>> who don't dance with us (that's 99.6% of the population) to join us. >>>> >>>> Michael Barraclough >>>> www.michaelbarraclough.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 2017-01-24 at 16:19 -0500, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote: >>>> > I know I'd appreciate it if people had new suggestions, they'd review >>>> > existing considerations for what makes terms usable. Things like 1:2 >>>> > syllable ratio, distinct vowel sounds - these disqualify a lot of >>>> > terms as being unfeasible for the same reason "bare arms / arm bands" >>>> > as terms are not preferable. The PDF spreadsheet that Dugan linked is >>>> > the result of my study with teamwork and sourcing from many dancers. >>>> > >>>> > Best, >>>> > Ron Blechner >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On Jan 20, 2017 7:28 PM, "Keith Tuxhorn via Callers" <callers(a)lists.s >>>> > haredweight.net> wrote: >>>> > > This conversation exhausts me, even though I know and accept it's >>>> > > all part of the folk process. >>>> > > >>>> > > So I will make my one contribution... two terms I thought of a >>>> > > couple weeks ago. >>>> > > >>>> > > Mun and Wem. >>>> > > >>>> > > They sound enough like the current terms that the brains of both >>>> > > callers and dancers can make an easy transition. They're made-up >>>> > > words, so they have no gender. And they're short. And easy to say. >>>> > > >>>> > > Mun and Wem. >>>> > > >>>> > > Okay, I've done my bit. >>>> > > >>>> > > Keith Tuxhorn >>>> > > Springfield IL >>>> > > >>>> > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Dugan Murphy via Callers <callers@ >>>> > > lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >>>> > > > Since it was an article about my dance series that started this >>>> > > > conversation about role terms, I'll offer that the primary reason >>>> > > > we chose "jets" and "rubies" as gender-free terms is so that >>>> > > > regular contra dancers from other places can come in and dance >>>> > > > without needing anything to be explained to them since the terms >>>> > > > are pretty similar to "gents" and "ladies." >>>> > > > >>>> > > > We also took a look at this graphic of Ron Blechner's analysis of >>>> > > > gender-free role terms people have been talking about: http://amh >>>> > > > erstcontra.org/ContraDanceRoleTerms.pdf >>>> > > > >>>> > > > We may not use "jets" and "rubies" forever, but we figured we'd >>>> > > > give it a try. There didn't seem to be any reasons not to try >>>> > > > and there are certainly plenty of reasons to try. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Most men at our dance dance as jets and most women dance as >>>> > > > rubies, but for the few who dance opposite, switch around, or >>>> > > > whose gender expression doesn't fit the man/woman binary, I'd >>>> > > > like to think that formally separating dance roles from gender is >>>> > > > validating in a meaningful way. >>>> > > > >>>> > > > Dugan Murphy >>>> > > > Portland, Maine >>>> > > > dugan at duganmurphy.com >>>> > > > >>>> > > > www.DuganMurphy.com >>>> > > > www.PortlandIntownContraDance.com >>>> > > > www.NufSed.consulting >>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > > Callers mailing list >>>> > > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> > > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.n >>>> > > > et >>>> > > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > _______________________________________________ >>>> > > Callers mailing list >>>> > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> > > >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Callers mailing list >>>> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Callers mailing list >>>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Callers mailing list >>> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > [View Less]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms?

by Marie-Michèle Fournier via Callers

I've been meaning to answer but since it doesn't quite fit your spreadsheet I'll just write it here. ContraMontreal has two dance series. Our "Big Dances" rely on guest callers and since the contract (I believe) doesn't say anything about role names they default to Gents/Ladies. But we also have a "Community dances" series that rely on a Callers' collective where we've been using both Gents/Ladies and Jets/Rubies on the same night. We've started having some dances in the evening called in … [View More]French and we use the translation to Jets/Rubies too, which is conveniently Jais/Rubis. I also have just learned that the Paris, France contradance is using the translation to Leads/Follows (Guideurs/Suiveurs). Now I know we shouldn't choose our preferred dance role names because of their translation ease, but just for kicks, here are the translations: - Gents/Ladies: there is no good translation to Gents, the closest is Monsieurs. Québécois folk uses Hommes/Femmes (Men/Women) or sometimes Hommes/Dames. - Larks/Ravens: Alouettes/Corbeaux - Leads/Follows: Guideurs/Suiveurs (problematic because this is an adjective and is already gendered masculine). Note that in Swing Dancing they translate this as Cavaliers/Cavalières - Jets/Rubies: Jais/Rubis - Bands/Bares: Brassards/Bras Nus - Oaks/Maples: Chênes/Érables - Port/Starboard: Babord/Tribord If you didn't know, every word is gendered in French, even things, which adds a challenge when trying to have a gender-free approach. No convenient singular "They" here, we had to invent a new pronoun! Have a nice day! Marie ContraMontreal On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 7:17 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Thanks everyone! The data I collected is in: > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UXXbER6N07iiA6Wjc2O6LzZ2i53kD > hvJLtzoA-7Oj3g/edit#gid=0 > > And I wrote this up as: > > http://www.jefftk.com/p/gender-free-role-term-usage > > On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Jeremy Gmail <jeremy.m.child(a)gmail.com> > wrote: > > It’s a one off so far, but a 2nd dance is in the diary and it will > hopefully > > become a regular series. > > > > > > > > From: Jeff Kaufman [mailto:jeff.t.kaufman@gmail.com] > > Sent: 25 January 2017 22:49 > > To: Jeremy Gmail > > Cc: Caller's discussion list > > Subject: Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free > terms? > > > > > > > > Is this for a regular series, or one-off (ONS) dances? > > > > > > > > On Jan 25, 2017 5:46 PM, "Jeremy Gmail via Callers" > > <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > > > > I use Mods and Rockers, which meets pretty much all of the various > criteria > > suggested for role identifiers. That's in the UK though - I'm not sure > if > > the word pairing is recognised across the pond. > > > > Jeremy > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf > Of > > Jeff Kaufman via Callers > > Sent: 25 January 2017 19:25 > > To: Caller's discussion list > > Subject: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms? > > > > I know several dance series use gender-free terms: > > > > Jets/Rubies: Portland ME > > Lead/Follow: Hampshire College, Contradelphia [defunct?] > > Bands/Bare-arms: JP, Western MA > > Larks/ Ravens: Circle Left, South Bay > > > > Does anyone know of other dances that are gender free, and what terms > they > > use? > > > > Jeff > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Callers mailing list > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > [View Less]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms?

by Jeremy Gmail via Callers

It’s a one off so far, but a 2nd dance is in the diary and it will hopefully become a regular series. From: Jeff Kaufman [mailto:jeff.t.kaufman@gmail.com] Sent: 25 January 2017 22:49 To: Jeremy Gmail Cc: Caller's discussion list Subject: Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms? Is this for a regular series, or one-off (ONS) dances? On Jan 25, 2017 5:46 PM, "Jeremy Gmail via Callers" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: I use Mods and Rockers, … [View More]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

by Alan Winston via Callers

On 1/27/17 12:08 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers wrote: > You can teach and call contra dances positionally without hurting > anyones feelings. We are all human beings, I find it objectionable to > be referred to as some form of rock or bird or whatever. > > The role a dancer chooses is really defined by which side of their > partnership they choose to start the dance or end a swing on. Working > from that basis just about any contra move can be taught or called > … [View More]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

by John W Gintell via Callers

Thanks Ron for this point. A bit of history. In the ‘70s Carl Wittman created a non-gendered method for English Country Dancing while in Oregon. It is currently used by several organizations, Heather and Rose in Oregon which he was part of, Sun Assembly in North Carolina - where Carl moved to later, Lavender Country and Folk Dancers at camps, Gender Free English in Jamaica Plain, and perhaps others. It uses positions instead of role names and sometimes is called Global Terminology. http:/… [View More]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms?

by Nick Cuccia via Callers

On 01/25/2017 11:25 AM, Jeff Kaufman via Callers wrote: > I know several dance series use gender-free terms: > > Jets/Rubies: Portland ME > Lead/Follow: Hampshire College, Contradelphia [defunct?] > Bands/Bare-arms: JP, Western MA > Larks/ Ravens: Circle Left, South Bay > > Does anyone know of other dances that are gender free, and what terms they use? The BACDS Berkeley (Wednesday) and Hayward (Sunday) contras also use Larks/Ravens. --Nick

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] Another vote for "jets" and "rubies"

by Ron Blechner via Callers

Let's please not presume to speak for the feelings of marginalized groups? Not thinking something is a problem because it doesn't affect you personally is super privileged. Ron Blechner On Jan 25, 2017 1:36 PM, "Barbara Groh via Callers" < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > Michael, if this view makes you a Luddite, sign me up as a member of the > Luddite Club. I think it's realistic to say that the members of all the > contra, English, and Square Dance groups will … [View More]NEVER all agree on which > alternative terms to use for ladies and gents, so all these new terms being > bounced around will only cause confusion (and some eye-rolling). > > You've already made a solid argument for the Luddite position, so I won't > say anything more....except this: Please, let's not start an argument over > whether it's pejorative to use the term Luddite! > > Barbara Groh > > On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Michael Barraclough via Callers < > callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: > >> I guess that I am a Luddite. Here's how I see it. >> >> Somewhere between 80-90% of the population is 'straight'. Surely, we >> want these people as well to come to our dances. It can be difficult >> enough to get past the dance lingo without adding the complexity of >> renaming labels for people that almost everyone already understands. To me, >> what really matters is that we run dances where everyone accepts everyone >> else's sexuality; where individual dancers can feel free to dance either >> role; where everyone is welcome. I am not convinced that 'non-straight' >> individuals are put off by the historical labels that we use, rather the >> lack of the 3 conditions that I have just outlined. >> >> Census data show the U.S. adult population is about 239m. Searching the >> web I can find around 300 contra dances, 150 English Country Dances and >> 1000 MWSD clubs. My generous guess is that less than 100,000 people go >> to these dances, less than 50,000 if we ignore MWSD. Did you know that >> over 700,000 people in the U.S. own a ferret? That means there are 7x as >> many people in the USA who own a ferret compared to the number of people >> who go to our dances! >> >> Let's put less rather than more barriers in the way of getting those >> who don't dance with us (that's 99.6% of the population) to join us. >> >> Michael Barraclough >> www.michaelbarraclough.com >> >> >> >> On Tue, 2017-01-24 at 16:19 -0500, Ron Blechner via Callers wrote: >> > I know I'd appreciate it if people had new suggestions, they'd review >> > existing considerations for what makes terms usable. Things like 1:2 >> > syllable ratio, distinct vowel sounds - these disqualify a lot of >> > terms as being unfeasible for the same reason "bare arms / arm bands" >> > as terms are not preferable. The PDF spreadsheet that Dugan linked is >> > the result of my study with teamwork and sourcing from many dancers. >> > >> > Best, >> > Ron Blechner >> > >> > >> > On Jan 20, 2017 7:28 PM, "Keith Tuxhorn via Callers" <callers(a)lists.s >> > haredweight.net> wrote: >> > > This conversation exhausts me, even though I know and accept it's >> > > all part of the folk process. >> > > >> > > So I will make my one contribution... two terms I thought of a >> > > couple weeks ago. >> > > >> > > Mun and Wem. >> > > >> > > They sound enough like the current terms that the brains of both >> > > callers and dancers can make an easy transition. They're made-up >> > > words, so they have no gender. And they're short. And easy to say. >> > > >> > > Mun and Wem. >> > > >> > > Okay, I've done my bit. >> > > >> > > Keith Tuxhorn >> > > Springfield IL >> > > >> > > On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 4:04 PM, Dugan Murphy via Callers <callers@ >> > > lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: >> > > > Since it was an article about my dance series that started this >> > > > conversation about role terms, I'll offer that the primary reason >> > > > we chose "jets" and "rubies" as gender-free terms is so that >> > > > regular contra dancers from other places can come in and dance >> > > > without needing anything to be explained to them since the terms >> > > > are pretty similar to "gents" and "ladies." >> > > > >> > > > We also took a look at this graphic of Ron Blechner's analysis of >> > > > gender-free role terms people have been talking about: http://amh >> > > > erstcontra.org/ContraDanceRoleTerms.pdf >> > > > >> > > > We may not use "jets" and "rubies" forever, but we figured we'd >> > > > give it a try. There didn't seem to be any reasons not to try >> > > > and there are certainly plenty of reasons to try. >> > > > >> > > > Most men at our dance dance as jets and most women dance as >> > > > rubies, but for the few who dance opposite, switch around, or >> > > > whose gender expression doesn't fit the man/woman binary, I'd >> > > > like to think that formally separating dance roles from gender is >> > > > validating in a meaningful way. >> > > > >> > > > Dugan Murphy >> > > > Portland, Maine >> > > > dugan at duganmurphy.com >> > > > >> > > > www.DuganMurphy.com >> > > > www.PortlandIntownContraDance.com >> > > > www.NufSed.consulting >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Callers mailing list >> > > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.n >> > > > et >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Callers mailing list >> > > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Callers mailing list >> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> _______________________________________________ >> Callers mailing list >> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net >> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Callers mailing list > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net > > [View Less]

8 years, 2 months

Re: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms?

by Jeremy Gmail via Callers

I use Mods and Rockers, which meets pretty much all of the various criteria suggested for role identifiers. That's in the UK though - I'm not sure if the word pairing is recognised across the pond. Jeremy -----Original Message----- From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Jeff Kaufman via Callers Sent: 25 January 2017 19:25 To: Caller's discussion list Subject: [Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms? I know several dance series use … [View More]

8 years, 2 months

[Callers] What dance series are using what gender-free terms?

by Jeff Kaufman via Callers

I know several dance series use gender-free terms: Jets/Rubies: Portland ME Lead/Follow: Hampshire College, Contradelphia [defunct?] Bands/Bare-arms: JP, Western MA Larks/ Ravens: Circle Left, South Bay Does anyone know of other dances that are gender free, and what terms they use? Jeff

8 years, 2 months

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