I usually get 10 to 12 dances in a 3 hour evening with break. The difference seems to come down to how much time I spend teaching, since actual dance time is fairly constant.
Lines at our dance run 8 to 14 couples, so spotting a couple works well -- down and maybe a little way back. I watch the clock more to hit the break and end of evening at the right time, not for time spent dancing.
At the end of some evenings, I have 5 to 8 experienced couples and dances run much shorter - no walk through required and dancers get tired/bored quickly. In the extreme case, 6 dances in the last 50 minutes.
For variety, I called a "small plates" contra dance one evening - easy dances with short or no walk through, and iterations limited to 8 to 10 times through. That was well received by dancers, though the band (despite the warning) had to adjust their thinking after the first dance.
Tim KleinKnoxville, TN
From: Lenore Frigo via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Maia McCormick <maia.mcc(a)gmail.com>
Cc: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 3:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length/dances per evening
I also use a stopwatch. As a new caller, I find it difficult to use any of the other methods because they require me to calculate and/or REMEMBER one more bit of information and my brain is already quite fully engaged. When I started out calling guest calling just 1-2 dances per night, I was fine tracking tune changes, but calling all night long, it all blurs together too much.
I don't use the stop watch to tell me when to stop the dance, but it's the perfect way to answer the question "Just how long has this dance been going on?". I usually aim to wrap it up in about 8-9 minutes, but it all depends on all those situational factors that people have already mentioned.
-Lenore
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your dances (in times through the dance, time take, couples going up and back, etc.)? How many dances do you generally manage to fit into a 3-hour contra evening? I've heard different wisdom from different folks and am curious to add some more data points!
Cheers,Maia
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On 4/22/2015 7:08 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance. In some communities, when I've been subjected to that experience, I've asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is something like, "no, the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though, it's the community's habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other day, who will no longer play for a certain series. One of the reasons: lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.
>
> I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities where applause is minimal, does it bother you?
I had that experience a while back at one of our local contras, when I
was calling with a really hot band. We'd finish a dance, get a few
claps and then just crickets. It was really depressing and upsetting.
The dances were going ok, the music was smoking and then... nothing.
I've just looked back into my dance log and the comment I wrote later
that night was "I don’t know what was up, but it felt bad-weird from the
stage." Applause really does make a difference.
Kalia
I also use a stopwatch. As a new caller, I find it difficult to use any of
the other methods because they require me to calculate and/or REMEMBER one
more bit of information and my brain is already quite fully engaged. When I
started out calling guest calling just 1-2 dances per night, I was fine
tracking tune changes, but calling all night long, it all blurs together
too much.
I don't use the stop watch to tell me when to stop the dance, but it's the
perfect way to answer the question "Just how long has this dance been going
on?". I usually aim to wrap it up in about 8-9 minutes, but it all depends
on all those situational factors that people have already mentioned.
-Lenore
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:54 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers <
callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your dances
> (in times through the dance, time take, couples going up and back, etc.)?
> How many dances do you generally manage to fit into a 3-hour contra
> evening? I've heard different wisdom from different folks and am curious to
> add some more data points!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
Generally, I expect to call 9-12 dances in a regular evening
contra/community dance venue. With 10-11 being the greatest majority of
the gigs.
I usually prepare a program with 10-11 dances, but of course once the
evening begins, things can change, sometimes quite radically.
The length of each dance -- really depends on the choreography of that
dance and the crowd and the music and the time of night (and a few other
judgements as well). The first and second dances can be slightly longer
than normal to reinforce the moves and help get newcomers adjusted to
the progression and responding to the calls. Or they can be shorter than
normal to accommodate the flow of new folks as they walk into the hall.
And then there is the music, which I consider greatly as part of my
judgements. If a band is in a groove, I'll want to continue their flow
and thus continue the dance for a couple of extra times. Also, the
common use of three tunes (rather than two or one) for a dance makes it
a real judgement call, since sometimes a band may play the first tune
longer than normal, so my choice is to cut off the third tune earlier
than the band may like or allow the dance to go a bit longer. Of course,
that also depends on a lot, including the actually tune being played and
what the band is doing with it and the nature of the dancers.
Conversely, if an old-time band plays one tune for each dance, I'll
usually make those dances a bit shorter, especially for a firm contra
crowd where the dancers may get bored with one tune that has no changes
in texture or modulation.
Woody
------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 4/26/2015 9:31 PM, Jack Mitchell via Callers wrote:
> For me, it really depends on the size and energy level of the dance.
> For a larger dance with lots of energy, I will run around 15 min per
> slot...so 3-4 minutes to get a new partner, 3-4 min to walk thru and 8
> or so minutes to dance (around 16 times through the tune). Square and
> mixers run shorter frequently, doing a square and a mixer means that I
> get an extra dance in overall.
>
> Smaller dances, or dances where some of the dancers have problems with
> stamena, I tend to run shorter -- frequently more like 10 minute
> slots. Have gotten 10-12 dances in a 2.5 hr (including break) dance.
> Have a friend who called 14 dances in a 2 hour dance because the band
> was an old time band and was just playing one tune per dance, the same
> way every time through, so she just ran all the dances much shorter.
>
> My goal is generally to get people down the hall and partway back
> during the dance for a single progression dance. YMMV
>
> Jack Mitchell
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 5:54 PM -0700, "Maia McCormick via Callers"
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote:
>
> Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your
> dances (in times through the dance, time take, couples going up
> and back, etc.)? How many dances do you generally manage to fit
> into a 3-hour contra evening? I've heard different wisdom from
> different folks and am curious to add some more data points!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
I usually do things basically by feel, and I also pay particular attention to tune changes and give the band enough time to play the 3rd tune enough times. I don't have any "rules of thumb", like watching a particular couple go up the line and back, or any specific time length or number of times through, because that gives me too much to keep track of.
Weather is also an important factor, especially in halls with no temperature controls (like Glen Echo or Baltimore's Lovely Lane). In wintertime I might run the dances a bit longer to minimize time not dancing so people don't start to get cold. In the summer, I might run them shorter because with all the sweating and water loss I don't want people to get exhausted.
The number of dances in a particular evening also is determined by a number of factors. For evenings where there are a lot of beginners and I have to take some time for walk throughs, I generally can fit in 10 to 11 dances in an evening. For those where there are more experienced dancers, walk throughs are shorter, or I can do more no walkthrough dances, and I can get up to 12 dances or even more in an evening. One evening I was in a particularly nice groove with a hall full of good experienced dancers, and I got in 14 dances that evening. I think the average is about 4 dances per hour (15 minutes per dance, including walk through time and between-dance time all combined with dancing time).
Perry
From: Maia McCormick via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net" <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 8:54 PM
Subject: [Callers] Dance length/dances per evening
Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your dances (in times through the dance, time take, couples going up and back, etc.)? How many dances do you generally manage to fit into a 3-hour contra evening? I've heard different wisdom from different folks and am curious to add some more data points!
Cheers,Maia
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Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
Very interesting discussion.
One thing I try to pay attention to is the music and whether the band will be playing two-tune or three-tune medleys. If I think the dance will not run for a long time (short hall, time running out, etc.) I’ll let the band know so they can make their changes sooner rather than later. I always feel badly if I have to cut the dance short and the band hasn’t gotten a chance to play the last tune at least four times through. If I have to make an “emergency” stop I always try to apologize to the band for cutting them short. If I lose track of the changes I’ll ask where they are.
Ann Fallon
Annapolis, Maryland
From: Callers [mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net] On Behalf Of Ryan Smith via Callers
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 10:25 AM
Cc: callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Dance length/dances per evening
"If you decide on a number of times through and actually count, you can stick to that pretty well, but if you decide a running time, it is much more difficult to stay on track of the time and warn the band three times before you want to end, etc."
I couldn't disagree more. I have always used a stopwatch to keep track of how long I'm running the dance, and since one time through the dance is close enough to 30 seconds as to make it not matter, I signal the band 3 more times at whichever B2 is closest to one and a half minutes (usually 6.5 minutes since we started) from my target time (usually 8 minutes). I don't count times through or use marker couples or anything like that because I don't need the distractions. If I were counting, I would definitely have a moment where some couple needed my help and I'd be figuring out what calls would best put them back on the right track and forget whether I was on 5 or 7, and then I'd probably end up running the dance too long thinking I was on 16 times through, when it was really 20.
If counting works for you, that's great. For people like me, having a target length is much simpler.
"If you decide on a number of times through and actually count, you can
stick to that pretty well, but if you decide a running time, it is much
more difficult to stay on track of the time and warn the band three times
before you want to end, etc."
I couldn't disagree more. I have always used a stopwatch to keep track of
how long I'm running the dance, and since one time through the dance is
close enough to 30 seconds as to make it not matter, I signal the band 3
more times at whichever B2 is closest to one and a half minutes (usually
6.5 minutes since we started) from my target time (usually 8 minutes). I
don't count times through or use marker couples or anything like that
because I don't need the distractions. If I were counting, I would
definitely have a moment where some couple needed my help and I'd be
figuring out what calls would best put them back on the right track and
forget whether I was on 5 or 7, and then I'd probably end up running the
dance too long thinking I was on 16 times through, when it was really 20.
If counting works for you, that's great. For people like me, having a
target length is much simpler.
When I was learning to call, I was taught to do about 15 times through the
dance (maybe 13, maybe 17). I like Victor's suggestion of 8 minutes for
the dance, 2 for walkthrough, and 2 for dancers to line up and chat before
the walkthrough starts. Including break and waltzes, in a three hour
dance, you should easily fit 12 dances in with that in mind. At my local
3-hour dance, we do a 15-minute break, and each waltz lasts 5 minutes (if
that). That leaves 155 minutes for a caller to run her dance, and that's
plenty of time if you actually run the dances for 8 minutes (you've got 11
minutes to spare using Victor's calculations, which is enough time for
unexpected things like longer walkthroughs, a hambo after the break, etc).
In my experience as a dancer, though, callers wildly underestimate how long
they are running the dances (and walkthroughs). We rarely get 12 dances in
a night at my local venue; usually 10 or 11. This could be because I
usually dance in a very long hall, where it is not possible to call dances
such that dancers go all the way through the line then halfway back (as
Jack suggests) without running dances very, very long. But I also think
there's a bias in callers toward thinking they have run a dance shorter
than they actually have. I have very rarely thought a dance ended
prematurely, but I often find that dances run long and get boring,
especially after 20 or more times through (which is frequent at my venue,
though when I talk to them, callers generally don't realize that they've
run dances through that many times).
My advice is, don't pick a time to run the dances. Pick a number of times
through, and do not vary that number significantly based on the size of the
hall. Running a dance through 17 times at a bigger hall is fine, but
running it through such that every dancer dances with each couple in the
set is ridiculous when you're in a hall (like my local hall) that can fit
30 or 40 couples in a line (not exaggerating, I've seen it there). If you
decide on a number of times through and actually count, you can stick to
that pretty well, but if you decide a running time, it is much more
difficult to stay on track of the time and warn the band three times before
you want to end, etc.
-Dave
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers
> <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> > Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your dances
> (in
> > times through the dance, time take, couples going up and back, etc.)? How
> > many dances do you generally manage to fit into a 3-hour contra evening?
> > I've heard different wisdom from different folks and am curious to add
> some
> > more data points!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Maia
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Callers mailing list
> > Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> > http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
--
David Casserly
(cell) 781 258-2761
For dances with different roles (active/inactive) run it so the number
of times through roughly equals number of couples so everyone gets
both roles. That could lean to making more sets. In a big venue we
have broken the sets to fit 2 in the length of the hall. Keep an eye
on the clock.. you can check for the top couple coming back to the
top, but if they do something unusual on the far end (switch sets,
partners, or drop out) it can screw you up.
In total our dance typically runs 11-12 dances in 3 hours with a break
plus waltzes at the end of each half.
On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:54 PM, Maia McCormick via Callers
<callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
> Just polling the masses here--how long do you generally run your dances (in
> times through the dance, time take, couples going up and back, etc.)? How
> many dances do you generally manage to fit into a 3-hour contra evening?
> I've heard different wisdom from different folks and am curious to add some
> more data points!
>
> Cheers,
> Maia
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
Hi All,
There are several places where almost no applause occurs after a dance.
In some communities, when I've been subjected to that experience, I've
asked, "were we off tonight?" The reply usually is something like, "no,
the dance was fine (or even great), we just head for our next
partner..." I know sometimes it's just the night. Sometimes, though,
it's the community's habit. I spoke with a renowned musician the other
day, who will no longer play for a certain series. One of the reasons:
lack of applause -- lack of that palpable sense of appreciation.
I think dancers don't often know that applause really makes the band and
caller feel better. If they feel better they play better. And, as a
dancer, applause usually makes me feel better, too. Any ideas on how to
encourage applause? Or, if you're in one of those communities where
applause is minimal, does it bother you?
~erik hoffman
oakland, ca
