On May 17, 2019, at 3:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like. I’ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, “If Allemande Left, Where’d Allemande Go?” I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand—and I think all of us should remove that word, “grip” from our caller’s vocabulary… But the most important thing I discussed is: Our Wrist is Strongest When It’s Straight Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist. Lately I’ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person’s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable. Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections. ~Erik Hoffman, Oakland, CA From: Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers-bounces@lists.sharedweight.net>> On Behalf Of John Sweeney via Callers Sent: Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM To: 'Caller's discussion list' &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@sharedweight.net>> Subject: Re: [Callers] Name that Dance Hi Rich, I would just call it a “Big Set Mixer”. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers. While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com <mailto:john@modernjive.com> 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html <http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html> for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk <http://www.contrafusion.co.uk/> for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com <http://www.modernjive.com/> for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/>

Hear, hear! My sentiments exactly! How on earth are you supposed to “give weight” (in the proper way, just a tiny bit so you are both part of a unit) and get around each other with a flat, palm to palm contact? The only way that works is that people bend their wrists so that they have some purchase on the other person. Which hurts my now no longer flat wrist! So wrong, painfully wrong. Please, please, please, stop teaching a flat hand allemande. It doesn’t work. Curved fingers, straight wrist, the thumb is just sort of loose and not doing much. Thank you for bringing that up, Erik! Martha On May 17, 2019, at 3:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like. I’ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, “If Allemande Left, Where’d Allemande Go?” I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand—and I think all of us should remove that word, “grip” from our caller’s vocabulary… But the most important thing I discussed is: - Our Wrist is Strongest When It’s Straight - Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved - Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist. Lately I’ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person’s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable. Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections. ~Erik Hoffman, Oakland, CA *From:* Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *On Behalf Of *John Sweeney via Callers *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM *To:* 'Caller's discussion list' &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Name that Dance Hi Rich, I would just call it a “Big Set Mixer”. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers. While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Hi all, I’m going to add a controversial note. I also loathe the many poor allemandes I get, unweighted, awkward handed, arm pulled in like a chicken wing, what have you. As a MWSD, I have come to love the forearm allemande for arm turns. Callerlab made the switch some years ago, and at first I was like, wut??? But it’s a position which save everyone’s hands and wrists, and even shoulders, is intrinsically very stable, and makes the chicken wing almost impossible. I started using it for dances with revolving doors, as a dancer, because those turns are so brief and necessarily tight and need a quick strong connection. I was so pleased I began using them elsewhere. People generally go along with it. I have been wishing Contra could just switch to this for all allemandes. I know it would be an uphill struggle to get everyone on board. But I had to put it out there. Currently I still teach an old fashioned allemande. I demonstrate and emphasize meaty parts of the thumb together, fingers curled around the base of the opposite’s thumb, flat wrist. And I always add that the thumb itself is an injurious device which lands at a tender spot if depressed, so leave it loose. Then I demonstrate how to produce enough connection to make a 2 person unit that turns on a post. I’m sure everyone on this list has similar teaches. If teaching this allemande was ever going to work, it would have by now. I suspect it’s failure as a hold is why callerlab opted for the forearm hold instead. My 2c, Andrea N Arlington VA Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like. I’ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, “If Allemande Left, Where’d Allemande Go?” I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand—and I think all of us should remove that word, “grip” from our caller’s vocabulary… But the most important thing I discussed is: - Our Wrist is Strongest When It’s Straight - Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved - Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist. Lately I’ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person’s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable. Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections. ~Erik Hoffman, Oakland, CA *From:* Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *On Behalf Of *John Sweeney via Callers *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM *To:* 'Caller's discussion list' &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Name that Dance Hi Rich, I would just call it a “Big Set Mixer”. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers. While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Andrea, could you describe the forearm allemande? I don't think I've seen it and can't quite picture it. Or maybe send a link to a video that shows it? Of possible interest to some, one of the scenes portrayed on the Shield of Achilles in the Iliad shows youths and maidens dancing, "holding their hands on one another's wrists." With best wishes, Richard Fischer Princeton, NJ On May 18, 2019, at 12:14 PM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Hi all, I’m going to add a controversial note. I also loathe the many poor allemandes I get, unweighted, awkward handed, arm pulled in like a chicken wing, what have you. As a MWSD, I have come to love the forearm allemande for arm turns. Callerlab made the switch some years ago, and at first I was like, wut??? But it’s a position which save everyone’s hands and wrists, and even shoulders, is intrinsically very stable, and makes the chicken wing almost impossible. I started using it for dances with revolving doors, as a dancer, because those turns are so brief and necessarily tight and need a quick strong connection. I was so pleased I began using them elsewhere. People generally go along with it. I have been wishing Contra could just switch to this for all allemandes. I know it would be an uphill struggle to get everyone on board. But I had to put it out there. Currently I still teach an old fashioned allemande. I demonstrate and emphasize meaty parts of the thumb together, fingers curled around the base of the opposite’s thumb, flat wrist. And I always add that the thumb itself is an injurious device which lands at a tender spot if depressed, so leave it loose. Then I demonstrate how to produce enough connection to make a 2 person unit that turns on a post. I’m sure everyone on this list has similar teaches. If teaching this allemande was ever going to work, it would have by now. I suspect it’s failure as a hold is why callerlab opted for the forearm hold instead. My 2c, Andrea N Arlington VA Sent from my iPhone On May 17, 2019, at 6:01 PM, Erik Hoffman via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: John Sweeny below hoped we callers would teach more about hand turns and the like. I’ve been thinking on this for quite a while. Years ago I had a discussion with Brad Foster. We both lamented the loss of the allemande with mildly interlocking thumbs to the modern overprotective thumb against the side of the palm allemande. At that time I think I was still in Santa Barbara, thus it must have been pre 1994. I wrote an article for our dance rag called, “If Allemande Left, Where’d Allemande Go?” I talked about what I do when someone grips my hand—and I think all of us should remove that word, “grip” from our caller’s vocabulary… But the most important thing I discussed is: - Our Wrist is Strongest When It’s Straight - Our Fingers are Strongest When Curved - Thus, however one does an allemande, it should be a hook, with curved fingers and a straight wrist. Lately I’ve seen teachers promote the straight fingers, bent wrist, and flat palm method. The almost always makes one person’s wrist uncomfortable. Not as bad as when someone draws the others hand into that almost-Aikido-put-them-on-the-ground position, but usually quite uncomfortable. Thus I hope most of us learn the curved fingers, straight wrist, no grip, and, no thumb clamping allemande, ECD hand turn, two hand turn type hand connections. ~Erik Hoffman, Oakland, CA *From:* Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; *On Behalf Of *John Sweeney via Callers *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2019 2:09 PM *To:* 'Caller's discussion list' &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Name that Dance Hi Rich, I would just call it a “Big Set Mixer”. It is a slight variation of the one in the Community Dances Manual. Callers just make up a 32 bar sequence that works for their dancers. While it is a good example of all ages having fun together, I really wish callers would teach the dancers just a tiny bit about how to do better hand/arm turns and swings :-) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact! _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

On May 21, 2019, at 1:50 AM, Erik Hoffman via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Yes, sweaty men’s arms? IckQ! Sweaty women’s arms? Glowing! From: Callers &lt;callers-bounces(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; On Behalf Of Rich Sbardella via Callers Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 5:34 PM To: Don Veino &lt;sharedweight_net(a)veino.com&gt; Cc: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety Don, That is why Gents wear long sleeves all year in MWSD. No skin too skin. Rich On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 8:19 PM Don Veino via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Not to mention a lot less sweaty skin contact! _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Hmm… I seem to have stirred up a hornet’s nest! It is great to see discussion on this important topic. There are two very different forearm holds. *** In front of the elbow ***: This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as: “Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is moving equally around the other.” I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong). I don’t like this one. Sorry. The connection is not as good as it could be. Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person’s arm. It provides the opportunity to grip hard. I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person’s upper arm. This can be uncomfortable. The one I do like is: *** Behind the elbow ***: Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms together. Place your curved hand behind your partner’s forearm, just above the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical. This is a great connection. There is no need to grip. You are close together so that you can turn really well. It is very effective for 1.5 turns. Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced. It can be achieved instantaneously. There is little opportunity to mess it up. You can see it being used in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the right (two ladies - one in grey). We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don’t pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer). I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style. Try them and see what you think. (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!) (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now and I still love it.) (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

On May 21, 2019, at 7:46 AM, John Sweeney via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: The Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold is NOT suitable for all moves! Waves are unquestionably much better with the standard contra Elbows-Down Palm-to-Palm hand holds. As are Swing Thrus. As Callerlab says, “All hands are joined in hands-up position, elbows in close. Exert slight pressure to assist opposite dancer in turning. Arcing turns should be utilized rather than pull by type of movements and should flow effortlessly from one turn to the other so that you are in a sense, "weaving" along the line.” (Sadly very few of the MWSD dancers that I have danced with seem to have understood this; they do lousy Waves with hand-holds at waist level and Grand Right & Left instead of Swing Thru!) I don’t find dis-engagement to be an issue with a Cupped-Elbow Forearm Hold in the moves that I use it for. But it certainly doesn’t give the ability to spin out of it. The standard contra Allemande is much better if you want to spin out of Allemande Left 1.5 or Contra Corners. If only we could find a way to get people to do it better… Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs From: Folk Dance &lt;ceilidh.caller.bob(a)gmail.com&gt; Sent: 21 May 2019 12:12 To: John Sweeney &lt;john(a)modernjive.com&gt; Cc: Caller's discussion list &lt;callers(a)sharedweight.net&gt; Subject: Re: [Callers] Hand Turns & Safety I agree with John's concerns over gripping in the forearm hold, and the increased security of the elbow cup - provided dancers are reminded that thumbs do not belong in the soft, vulnerable inside of elbows! However, I think the full elbow cup grip gives up a certain freedom of disengagement and if we tried to use it universally would result in some awkward transitions - balance the wave to swing through for instance would be clunky with an elbow cup. A well taught hooked or flat hand (properly vertical and balanced!) hand allemande would be my preference. I'm not sure I'm clear on the "flat" grip issues - could someone give me a clear definition of what they consider to be this problematic option? Bob On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:19 AM John Sweeney via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Hmm… I seem to have stirred up a hornet’s nest! It is great to see discussion on this important topic. There are two very different forearm holds. *** In front of the elbow ***: This is the MWSD version. Callerlab defines it as: “Forearm: The arms are held past the wrist but not past the elbow joint. Each dancer places the hand on the inside of the arm of the person with whom he is to work. The fingers and thumb are held in close. The center of the turn will be at the joined arms, so, while turning, each dancer is moving equally around the other.” I think this is what Andrea is describing (my apologies if I am wrong). I don’t like this one. Sorry. The connection is not as good as it could be. Good connection can often only be achieved by gripping the other person’s arm. It provides the opportunity to grip hard. I often find that, due to different arm lengths, the gap between by thumb and index finger is pressed against the inside of the other person’s upper arm. This can be uncomfortable. The one I do like is: *** Behind the elbow ***: Put your thumb beside your fingers. Curve your hand. Place your forearms together. Place your curved hand behind your partner’s forearm, just above the elbow. Get close enough so that your upper arm is vertical. This is a great connection. There is no need to grip. You are close together so that you can turn really well. It is very effective for 1.5 turns. Thumbs are not involved so the chance of gripping is greatly reduced. It can be achieved instantaneously. There is little opportunity to mess it up. You can see it being used in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_wncJcFPVo There is a good example 5 seconds in - look at the second couple on the right (two ladies - one in grey). We use this hold for all sorts of dances in the UK. It is great for Strip the Willow and Lock Chain Swings (i.e. Grand Right and Left where you don’t pull by, instead you turn 1.5 times with each dancer). I would thoroughly recommend this as an alternative Allemande style. Try them and see what you think. (P.S. The really sad thing about that video Is the swings. If only the caller had told them to take the same forearm hold and join left hands underneath, then they could have had so much more fun swinging!) (P.P.S. I love this dance. Nottingham Swing. I spent my first 50 years in Nottingham, so I have been dancing this dance for nearly 50 years now and I still love it.) (P.P.P.S. The dance is actually from Northamptonshire - 50 mile south.) Happy dancing, John John Sweeney, Dancer, England john(a)modernjive.com 01233 625 362 & 07802 940 574 http://contrafusion.co.uk/KentCeilidhs.html for Live Music Ceilidhs http://www.contrafusion.co.uk for Dancing in Kent http://www.modernjive.com for Modern Jive DVDs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

... I still don't understand what those people are thinking.

On Jul 8, 2019, at 18:30, jim saxe via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: On May 18, 2019, at 11:28 AM, Rich Dempsey via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote, regarding flat-hand allemanders: The question of "what those people are thinking" often comes to my mind in relation to dance style points in general. A caller (whether myself or someone else) describes something in terms that seem crystal clear; the thing they are suggesting is something simple (e.g., "straight wrist, bent fingers", as contrasted to, say, a complicated choreographic pattern or a long footwork sequence in 11/8 time); perhaps they even do a demonstration and specifically call dancers' attention to the details they mean to demonstrate ("Notice how my fingers ..."); and yet, once the music starts, a large number of dancers do something different from what the caller suggested. What on earth are all those people thinking? When a caller's attempt to put something across to a group of dancers isn't very successful, it seems to me that figuring out *why* can be an important first step toward coming up with a better approach to teaching that thing in the future--or toward having better judgment in the future about whether or not to attempt to teach that particular thing (whether it's a styling nuance, an unfamiliar figure, a complete dance sequence, or whatever) in any particular situation. So I'd like to get your thoughts about figuring out what's going on when a caller's attempt to teach a style point fall flat. What sorts of things do you think the nonconforming dancers might be thinking? How do you try to judge what the most significant issues are in any particular case, so that you can decide what to do differently next time? (I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be productive to go around cornering different dancers and saying, "Hey, <name>, I noticed that in that dance where I made a big point of teaching people to do such-and-such, you kept doing so-and-so. What's up with that?") Can you offer any specific stories about how you diagnosed a difficulty in putting across a particular style point (whether about allemandes or anything else) and how you improved your presentation later? For anyone who feels like wading through more of my musings, below are some possible reasons I've thought of that dancers might not follow a caller's styling advice. Some of them may overlap or interact with others, and perhaps some of you can think of other important possibilities that I've omitted. I don't have any great ideas to offer about how to judge which of the possibilities listed below apply in any particular situation. I welcome your comments. --Jim 1. *Intentional rebellion*: Some dancers may get the vibe that "the caller is criticizing us" or "the caller thinks (s)he knows our idea of fun better than we do." They may find this presumption on the part of the caller extremely off-putting and may decide to show the pompous twit who's boss by visibly disobeying. [While it may be tempting to assume intentional rebellion as the explanation when you see dancers apparently making no effort to follow a very clearly explained suggestion from the caller, I think that such instances of outright contrariness are actually quite rare.] 2. *Informed dissent*: The dancers in question really, truly understand the styling the caller is recommending and have really, truly given it a fair try--perhaps more than once, and with a variety of different partners and/or neighbors at one or more previous dance events--but have concluded that they personally prefer a different styling from what the caller is suggesting. Furthermore, they have judged, after due consideration, that they will not impose awkwardness or discomfort on other dancers by using their own preferred styling. [I certainly must grant respect to the preferences of dancers in this category--and most especially so when they have some frailty or injury that would make it painful to dance in the style recommended by the caller. However, there are times when informed dissent strikes me as an unlikely explanation for dancer behavior. In particular, it seems unlikely to me that most of the dancers who allemande with flat hands, straight fingers, and sharply bent wrists can really have given a fair try to the styling with gently curled fingers and straight wrists and found it wanting. Of course I haven't lived in all those people's bodies.] 3. *Genuine ambiguity*: The caller's words may have been ambiguous, and some dancers may have followed an interpretation that never occurred to the caller but that is just as plausible as the one that the caller intended. [This situation can occur not only for style suggestions, but also in cases involving the basic choreography of a dance. To give just one of many, many possible examples, a caller who identifies the role of "first corner" in Contra Corners as "the person to the right of your partner" may think the meaning is obvious, but a new dancer could quite plausibly interpret "the person to the right of your partner" to mean "the person adjacent to your partner's right shoulder".] 4. *Weak attention, but with good intention*: Some dancers might genuinely believe that they are being completely cooperative with the caller when in fact they have not paid careful attention to hearing and interpreting the caller's words. For example, when some experienced dancers hear a caller start to go into details of styling for some figure, they might assume that the caller is addressing only newer dancers and that they themselves already know how to do whatever it is. So they may turn their attention to modeling (their idea of) standard styling with the new dancers around them and meanwhile not fully attend to the actual words coming over the P.A. system. [It's easy to dismiss such dancers with expressions like "smug" or "overconfident" or "dancers who imagine themselves to be 'experienced'", but I think we humans have a natural tendency to be only as attentive as we imagine circumstances to warrant. And our idea of how much attentiveness a situation warrants may be base d more on habit than on careful intellectual consideration. Numerous street crossings in London are painted with the words "LOOK RIGHT" just off the curb (or "LOOK LEFT" just off center islands of divided streets) as shown in these photos: https://image1.masterfile.com/getImage/600-08639271em-look-right-sign-at-cr… https://www.flickr.com/photos/tracyg/4523412014 http://www.packingmysuitcase.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/lookleft.jpg That's for the benefit of tourists who genuinely imagine that we're in the habit of looking both ways before crossing a street, when our actual habit may be to look in the direction that we normally expect traffic to come from and then to take a few steps into the street before we look the other way. If people can be less than hyper-vigilant in situations where it can literally be a matter of life and death, it's hardly surprising that we can tune out a little when we imagine that a dance caller is about to go over familiar ground. By the way, notice the arrows in the photos cited above. Perhaps those are primarily for the benefit of non-English-speaking tourists, but I also think they're a useful addition to the words even for literate native speakers of English.] 5. *Verbal/spatial processing issues*: Some dancers may find it more difficult than others to make sense of a caller's verbal description of a spatial situation. [As an example, a pair of dancers might have their hands in an allemande hold where the tips of each dancer's fingers are near the other dancer's index finger, approximately as shown in the supposed depiction of arm wrestling at http://lowres.cartoonstock.com/property-supply_and_demand-demand-arm_wrestl… and when the caller says something about each dancer curving their fingers around the other dancer's hand "between the base of the thumb and the wrist", they may simply not make sense of what that could mean. Similarly, to give an example involving basic choreography rather than styling, when a caller talks about one person in a courtesy turn backing up while the other goes forward, the person who is told to "back up" may be unable to imagine what that could mean except to back completely away from the other dancer. And if the caller tries to clarify by talking about a "common axis of rotation" or some such thing, it might be like expecting someone who has never seen the inside of a jet engine, or the outside of kangaroo, to make a recognizable drawing of one based on a verbal description.] 6. *Mental overload and reversion to habit*: Some dancers may need to devote so much of their attention to the basic choreography of the dance that they don't have any left over for details of styling, which therefore revert to the habitual. [I've sometimes danced with new dancer partners who have had a tendency to press their thumb against the back of my hand, for example during circles. When an opportunity presents--say, while we're waiting out at the top or the bottom of the set--I might tell/show them about how pressing with the thumb is unnecessary, and a bit painful. The result is sometimes that they keep the thumb out of play for a round or two of the dance but soon go back to pressing it against the back of my hand. I presume that their attention is all taken up dealing with things like what to do next and who to do it with and the unfamiliarity of things being turned around 180 degrees now that we've come back in after being out at the end, and the thing about what (not ) to do with their thumbs is what ends of getting dropped.] 7. *Acoustic issues*: Perhaps the caller chose excellent words to explain a particular style point but some combination of acoustic issues rendered the callers words unintelligible to some of the dancers. [Issues could include poor room acoustics, poor adjustment of the P.A. system, noise from fans and/or from conversations on the sidelines, poor enunciation, or poor mic technique. There could also be dancers who have various degrees of hearing deficits. Acoustic difficulties can interact with issuers attention (item 4 above) and verbal processing (item 5). One source of distracting noise can be other dancers who begin talking among themselves as soon as they detect that the caller has stopped teaching the essentials of the dance sequence and begun to prattle about styling.] 8. *Unseen demo*: During a demonstration, people might have crowded around so that only the nearest ones had ha clear view. 9-?. *???*: What possibilities have I missed? ============ (end) ============ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/