I thought so but not in the dance I'm using.  the formation might assume that.  But then again, we know what assume...   ~ When I dance, I cannot judge, I cannot hate, I cannot separate myself from life. I can only be joyful and whole, that is why I dance. ~Hans Bos~ ~

Aahz Indifferent - set up as improper formation, then have neighbors trade places (ladies on the left) Indecent - set up proper, then have 2's trade places   ~

Another dance that starts out as improper, but starts the A1 from a progressed position is Rick Mohr's Chuck the Budgie. Both dances have sequences that seem to 'cross' the end phrase (the B to A). They feel especially seamless to the dancers with music, but in slow motion, the starting positioning may feel weird. I didn't even notice until teaching CTB broke down in a beginner crowd because some people started yelling that they were "in the wrong place." In both cases of CTB and TFB, the neighbors allemande "until the ladies/gents face in." That gets them where they need to go even if they are on the "wrong" side of their neighbor. Slowing down the teaching does not help. It's like trying to teach someone how to walk: momentum helps! I don't generally find the "backwards progression" helpful in practice. It may be technically correct in some cases, but it falls under "too much information" for most dance crowds, imho. I find the "progressed improper" designation helpful only if/when the dancers start questioning their starting position and need reassurance that they know that you know where they are supposed to be. Joy Greenwolfe Durham, NC On Apr 13, 2013, at 1:34 AM, Jack Mitchell wrote:

Here's one of my dances, appropriate for experienced groups, where the 1's start below the 2's As far as I know only Lisa Greenleaf and I have ever called this. Where's Alex? November, 1996 (*) Dancers line up improper but the 1's then exchange places with their opposite sex neighbor, so the 1's are below the 2's. 1-2: Men allemande left 1 1/2, partners swing 3: Promenade across. 4: Women chain to neighbor, but at end of courtesy turn roll away with 1/2 sashe (Everyone now in the position of a normal improper dance, but facing across.) 5: 1/2 hey, men start right shoulders, everyone finishing in the place of their same sex neighbor had started and standing back to back with their opposite sex neighbor, and thus facing a new (second) neighbor. (Everyone now on side of set opposite from which they started the dance ) 6: With 2nd neighbors, men start 1/2 hey passing left shoulders, finish facing a third neighbor. (Everyone now on side of set they started dance.) 7-8: Left shoulder gypsy the third neighbor. Swing the second neighbor. *** Teaching suggestions: Emphasize several times during the walk-through, that dancers reaching the end of the set MUST face back in with the men on the right, women on the left!! (This is not quite correct, but it is what the dancers need to know) Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801       217-239-5844

I just consider this "indifferent" to be progressed improper. Progressed improper is just reverse progression indecent. -Chris Page San Diego On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Laur <lcpgr(a)yahoo.com> wrote:

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013, Michael Fuerst wrote: I'll say! I've hardly ever encountered these formations in more than a quarter-century of contra dancing, and I'm wondering where a need for the terminology comes from. -- Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/ <*> <*> <*> Help a hearing-impaired person: http://rule6.info/hearing.html