Interesting discussion on the Portland Country Dance Community Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don’t like “right shoulder round” (I’m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well.

On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers <callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net> wrote: I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One of the reasons why beginners don’t return is that it is too confusing. And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive. _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

On Mar 13, 2018, at 2:32 PM, Yoyo Zhou via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:07 PM, Martha Wild via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: I don’t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It’s descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can’t be easily shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to be using it. Personally, I use "right shoulder turn" in teaching, and when prompting, I shorten it to "right shoulder". This is already shorter than "right allemande", which I don't think can get any shorter. Also personally, I would find it hard not to cringe when I hear "kipsie" (and, not being from New York, I would have never made the Poughkeepsie connection without the help of this list). I feel similarly about "jets" as a dance role replacement term. It's just a little too close and reminds you too much of what you're trying to avoid. How dancers respond to new terms is shaped by their attitudes, which can range from "I don't want this to change" to "I think this needed changing but the new thing is awkward" to "I like the new thing" to "I don't care either way" to "I'm new, what is this?" So different things may work for different crowds, though you'll hear a lot of feedback from a few vocal dancers, whereas most dancers I think are closest to feeling "I don't care either way". But the whole reason we're on this topic is that enough dancers want it to change. Yoyo Zhou _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

I don’t think right shoulder round is going to make the grade. It’s descriptive, certainly, but it is long and unwieldy and can’t be easily shortened to anything recognizable as you eliminate calls in the dance. So, I’m sorry, but I’m not going to be using it. Martha On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:53 PM, John W Gintell via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I think it would be best if only one term is used by callers at all dances. I think this quite important for beginners (not necessarily just the first time) who face enough confusion learning the terminology. One of the reasons why beginners don’t return is that it is too confusing. And I too like hearing right shoulder round because it is descriptive. On Mar 13, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Perry Shafran via Callers < callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I happen to *like* right shoulder round and have liked it ever since three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I plan to stick with "right shoulder round". _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

On Mar 16, 2018, at 1:00 PM, Ron Blechner via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: I also use "face-to-face", which I learned from Eric. I've heard Steve Z-A and Lisa G switch to these terms, at least where I've heard them call. I also use "right shoulder round" when it's a multi-caller event and that's what people like. We agreed to this for Flurry Festival last month, and it worked well all weekend with thousands of dancers. I want to also echo that anything that sounds too much like g*psy is going to rub at least some people the wrong way. I also thought jets/rubies was a winner, and I've acknowledged that too many people think jet is a problem. In dance, Ron Blechner On Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 12:00 AM Eric Black via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:callers@lists.sharedweight.net>> wrote: I’m still bemused and befuddled that not so many years ago, this dance move was decried because of perceived forced invasion of personal space. People did not want to be told that they had to make eye contact when they were not comfortable with it, that they did not like being told to flirt with people they did not choose. Some of us callers told dancers that the eye contact was optional, that the essential part of the move was that it was a face-to-face do-si-do, no spins or twirls, just moving around each other. Now the argument against the name of the move has completely lost all ground on that front. For some years I’ve used “face-to-face”, teaching it with the memorable description “imagine a short gold chain joining the rings in your noses”. Eye contact is optional, and not directed; dancers will or will not make eye contact as they choose. In private communication with a young caller who is very vocal in various discussion fora I said there was no need to attribute the term to me. Maybe I should have insisted. I’ve tried “right [left] shoulder round” with favorable reception. ANYway, if we’ve been making progress in removing real or perceived invasions of personal space, and gender issues, why regress in order to change the name of a dance move to make progress in removing real or perceived ethnic slurs? And no, “spiral” is out of the question. It’s a different move that includes changing the distance between the dancers, whereas the move under discussion does not. English dancers know the difference. Eric Black eric(a)eric-black.com <mailto:eric@eric-black.com> _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net <mailto:Callers@lists.sharedweight.net> Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/> _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

On Mar 13, 2018, at 11:53 PM, Cara Sawyer via Callers &lt;callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Jo Mortland of the Chicago Barn Dance group here came up with Dipsy. Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort of like Kipsy! Guess what they say about great minds is true! Sent using two thumbs _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

Andrea, The discussions make it clear that: (1) there is a need to use terminology other than "gypsy," at least in some venues, and (2) there is no generally-agreed substitute term. A lot of callers see that as an impediment to clear and concise teaching/calling. I have certainly experienced confusion and annoyance as a dancer. I believe that the folk process will provide a solution, but I appreciate the efforts to accelerate what could otherwise take many years to resolve. I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good candidates, it might be time to debate their merits. Bob On 3/14/2018 03:31, Andrea Nettleton via Callers wrote: preferred term (I’ve shared and still like whimsy, but look-see got my attention) of the moment. But why are we circling this wagon again? Though everyone is polite, and thankfully we haven’t begun to rehash whether gypsy is a slur or not, I also see no fresh approach, no new insight, to clarify for one and all a single, simple, right answer. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not sure there is one. But I’m positive we won’t get there by having more of the same back and forth we’ve already had. While I R eyelemande my neighbor, you’re going to R shoulder round yours, and as far as I can tell, that’s where we are and will be. Could we please maybe back away from the specifics a bit, and see if we can generate a new way of framing the debate? And if we can’t, just let the experiment continue without rehashing the already well trodden ground? callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: Nice and silly and sounds similar enough it requires no explanation. Sort of like Kipsy! callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net&gt; wrote: three callers at a dance event used it and it went rather flawlessly. I like the fact that it is actually descriptive in what you're doing. I think that the more we try to invent made-up words to try to make it sound fun and whimsey, the more we are likely to upset dancers who don't like that we're changing terms as it is. It may *sound* like a boring descriptor, but I feel my job as a caller is to describe the move and let the dancer decide what the mood is going to be for that individual dancer, based on their own feelings and their own connection to the music. So I plan to stick with "right shoulder round". Facebook page. Lots of great suggestions. A lot of people really don’t like “right shoulder round” (I’m one of them). I tried one of their suggestions last night - Kipsey - and it worked amazingly well. Easy to say, particularly when you are cutting down the calling to one word (what do you do with right shoulder round? shoulder? Ick.) And everyone can hear the similarity and knows what to do. I had tried spiral for a while and people just seemed confused. The other suggestion that I noticed today was from Susan Michaels - “look-see” That has the virtue of a similar rhyming two syllable call, and it’s upbeat and fun and has emphasis on facing the other person. Check out the discussion. https://www.facebook.com/groups/62950211264/permalink/10155943260651265/ https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/ _______________________________________________ List Name: Callers mailing list List Address: Callers(a)lists.sharedweight.net Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

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I appreciate the reports of what different callers are trying and their degree of success. At the same time, it makes a lot of sense to avoid rehashing the same arguments, as you suggest. Right now, we're in an empirical phase--trial and error--and rapid dissemination of results seems like the way to go. If that process suggests a few good candidates, it might be time to debate their merits. Bob <https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/>