"We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure you, many people falter without the instruction!)"

I suspect that the reason things fall apart without calling is that people are used to always having calling. Removing calling for one time through the dance doesn't work well because it's abrupt and all-or-nothing.

Learning how to drop out gradually can get you and your dancers to a place where you don't need to call the whole dance and where the dancers don't feel like that calling is needed. This goes something like:

* Start with your standard full calls

* After a time or so through the dance, use shorter versions of the calls ("long lines" and not "long lines forwards and back"). Still have the calls end right before the next figure. This means they have less time from the call until the figure, and so practice anticipating the next figure.

* Continue using shorter and shorter calls ("lines")

* Leave out calls when it's pretty obvious and/or there's lots of catch-up time. If the dance has a pass through, balance, and swing then you can start leaving out the "swing" call because most people will learn quickly that it follows the balance, and anyone who forgets has plenty of time to look around them and figure it out. Then you can start leaving out the "balance" because that will seem natural to the dancers after the pass through.

* Pay attention to where the dancers are getting confused, and support the tricky parts of the dance. If it's sometimes circle and swing, and other times circle and pass through, call the swing/pass longer because it's hard to remember.

If the dancers always have everything prompted for them, they don't learn the choreography.

Jeff

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020, 8:13 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:	Re: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four
Date:	Mon, 2 Mar 2020 14:23:10 -0400
From:	Katherine Kitching <kat@outdooractive.ca>
To:	contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net

Hi all, wanted to thank everyone for all the super varied/interesting and helpful feedback and suggestions!

I also wanted to report that my first Hey went very well on Saturday night.

What I ended up doing was creating 2 "practice lines" in the centre of our big teaching circle (I always teach new figures in a big circle) - which each had 3 people set up in a line with generous space between, and first  I walked through one of those lines myself starting first from the middle, to demo how the Raven would proceed, and then from one end to show how the Lark would proceed -- both to 16 counts -- showing how I passed the person in the middle by the right shoulder and the people on the ends by the left shoulder, and explaining how in reality everyone is moving so there won't actually be a person to walk around at the ends, but looping around that stationary person in the practice line gives you a feel for how to do the figure.

Then I brought in a fourth person into the practice line and actually got everyone to move at once, to demo how the Hey works (which blew the new people's minds, they were laughing at how complicated it looked compared to when 3 of the four people had been standing still)

Then I offered those who had never done a hey before the chance to try it with the other 3 ppl being stationary, encouraging Ravens to try from the middle and Larks to try from an end, to simulate what they'd be experiencing in the dance...

So that was neat, cause those who wanted to try got to try, and those who are visual learners and felt that they got the concept just from my demo, along with those who have already done a hey before, didn't have to do it....  - and having two practice lines sped things up and took attention off everyone just watching one person (I may actually do 3 practice lines in the future!)

Then when everyone got into their contra lines and we got to the Hey part in the walk through (after a Raven's chain)  I used the patter that you all gave feedback on for a couple of walkthroughs... (but also emphasized that you could mess up the weaving all you wanted to, and it didn't matter as long as you got back to your partner for a bal and swing at the end of the 16 counts - that was probably the most helpful thing for people to grasp).

It looked a bit rough during the walkthroughs but everyone indeed made it back "home" on time for the swing, and then as the dance progressed everyone nailed it eventually.

During the dance I used parts of the patter sometimes, but by the end just said "into the Hey!" and it was all good.

I enjoy that patter though - like I said our previous caller did it and it has a nice feel to it.  I got confirmation from our old caller that he did the patter concurrently with each sub-figure of they hey, rather than preceding them.
We do do a lot of talking at our dances, with so many beginners each time we basically never stop calling (or maybe we let people muddle through without calls for the very last time through some dances - but I assure you, many people falter without the instruction!) -- anyhow I think our group is pretty used to dancing with lots of verbiage accompanying the music, for better or for worse :)

- thanks again!!
Learned a lot from all you wrote, and I may try Diane's approach below in the future!!
Also loved the idea that just came in this morning to say "pass right with nobody" at the ends, to give an idea of how to walk that final loop...
Kat in Halifax





Diane Silver via Contra Callers wrote on 2/28/2020 3:15 PM:

Like Erik, I emphasize the loop-around as a critical part of the move.  Presuming the preceding move is an 8-count move and there's no short 4-count move that needs to be called, I use the entire preceding 8 beats to prompt the start of the hey before it needs to happen.  I call the general move "Hey for four" and also pre-call the descriptive details for how it starts. (I teach the hey emphasizing that as the Robins start passing right, the Larks' first move is to slide over into the right-hand position, and then they'll follow the Robin through the weaving (and of course, vice-versa if it's a left-shoulder hey)).  Then I continue to pre-call each piece of the hey while the preceding piece is taking place, in 4-count chunks.  Feels like patter calling because there's no stopping:

CAPital letters indicate calling on the downbeat, with emphasis. lower-case calls are like pick-up notes for the following downbeat:



Starting the call way back on beat 9 of the preceding part does not seem to be a problem for the dancers.  They finish the move they're doing (often swinging) and the extra thinking time helps them end that move and face across to start the hey on time.  I've never had anyone start the hey early because the beginning of the call came so early.

-- Diane

On 2/28/2020 1:30 PM, Erik Hoffman via Contra Callers wrote:

One of the problems with calling heys and this type of timing is the *WHILE* problem:

   While a pair is passing in the middle, someone is looping at the end—a sort of “ghost” pass. New dancers often abruptly about-face actually cutting off the path of the next person they’re supposed to pass, and often try to pass with the “other” shoulder.

   Here’s the Robins (we’ve switched) as the Larks:

                Robins             WHILE             Larks

        Robins pass Right                    Larks Loop Left (often replaced by a “pause”)

Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by Left

Robins Loop Left                       Larks pass Right

Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by left

Robins pass Right                    Larks Loop Left

Robins pass Larks by Left         Larks pass Robins by left

Robins Loop Left                       Larks pass by Right

 

Again, it’s that X Passes while Y Loops that often leads to problems. Thus, if the teaching didn’t click, when I notice this problem as I watch the problems dancers have I might start calling to those dancers who are doing the “about-face” and call “Loop to the Left (or right) to pass Left (right) Again.”

 

Erik Hoffman

 

From: Jeff Kaufman via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 6:50 AM
To: Katherine Kitching <kat.kitching@gmail.com>
Cc: contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Re: actual timing of calls for hey for four

 

I don't think there's anything special about they hey: always cue things so that they start on the beat after you finish speaking.

 

You might find "ravens left" etc works better than "ravens pass left", being shorter.  Otherwise it's hard to get all the words out.

 

Jeff

 

On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 6:06 AM Katherine Kitching via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

hello - first time posting to this list so i'm sorry if I do it wrong (looked in archives and couldn't see obvious answer)

 

 I am going to teach and call my first dance with a hey this Saturday.. (ie tomorrow)

 

our group takes things slow so i'd like to cue every interaction for the first few times, as our previous caller did.... I don't know how common this is but our previous caller would actually say--

 

 ravens pass right

neighbours pass left

larks pass right

partners left

ravens pass right

neighbours pass left

larks pass right 

 partner balance and swing

 

I'm wondering if someone can clarify for me about delivering the calls for this hey....normally of course I deliver instructions so the last bit of instruction ends on the beat prior to the figure starting.

 

But in the case of the Hey, if I remember correctly the caller actually called out  the actions *as* they were happening.... 

 

Am I remembering correctly and if so is this the best approach?

 

In essence-- do I start by calling "ravens pass right" just before they do it, or while they are doing it?

 

thanks muchly :)

 

Katherine Kitching in Hfx NS Canada 

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