I think my third photo isn't quite picturing the swing Kat is
referring to -- while the arms close to the camera are as described, in
my picture the arms away from the camera are in standard contra position
swing position with the Lark's hand behind the Robin's back and the
Robin's hand behind the Lark's shoulder. The same as in the first
picture on the page.
If, instead, you imagine the
arms farther from the camera were also in the position that the
closer-to-the-camera arms are in, I think that gets you the swing Kat
describes? Symmetrical, supported, and a bit less close than the
standard swing.
Jeff
Unsupported
swings are the worst!
Shoulder blades with nice
rounded frame provide support and distance.
Kat-
can you clarify when you say the swing is like in Jeff’s third picture,
does that mean the other arms are on shoulder blades like in the photo?
Or are the other arms “point”?
oh! wonderful!!
Here is the modified-hold swing I've
been talking about, on Jeff K's page - third photo down!!
labelled under the photo as
arm-hold ballroom swing
https://www.jefftk.com/p/contra-avoiding-sore-arms
Thanks Jeff!!
Now I'm going to comment to two things again - Julian's comment and
Jeff's comment (both included below).
Julian's question: "why [does] a ballroom hold feels more "intimate"
than other holds?"
For me personally, what I find more "intimate" about the ballroom hold
(and a lot of the other holds), is that it puts me very close to the
other person - closer than in any other figure - and also more "locked
in" - since both hands of both people are involved in maintaining the
hold.
And what I noticed in my own body, when in recent dances I've been doing
the elbow-hold ballroom position with most neighbours and a new man
suddenly grabs my waist and pulls me into conventional ballroom hold -
is that I don't really like his hand there on my back. I feel a bit
trapped - like if I wanted to back away a little, I can't.
(I acknowledge I am speaking in gendered terms here, but I feel it is
relevant because for me, this feeling of being excessively close to
someone only seems to come up when I'm dancing with some men. I've never
to my recollection had a woman pull me "too close for comfort").
I'll be curious to hear how others answer this question.
Regarding hand placement- I definitely agree with Jeff's page about the
importance of symmetry - prior to our elbow-hold swing, we always taught
the ballroom swing where both parties put their hands on the other
person's shoulder blade- with the shorter person's arm going under the
taller person's arm. I like the symmetry of it and fully agree that
both parties should be responsible for supporting the other.
And Jeff wrote:
"In general, I would be excited to see common positioning move ... to
where both people are using both of their arms to
hold the couple together, sharing the weight more evenly"
And that's one reason I love this elbow-hold (or "arm-hold" as Jeff
calls it) - I've found this hold gives me an even better connection to
my dancing patner than the shoulder-blade hold.
It doesn't feel easy to cup one's hand in an effective way around
someone else's back - and I agree it asks a lot of the wrist.
I find it much easier to cup my hand around the back of someone's elbow
- it is perfectly hand-sized :) .
Kat K
-----
Julian wrote:
I would love to read elaboration / articulation on why a ballroom hold
feels more "intimate" than other holds?
Is
it a matter of the historical social attachment we have in our minds
with couples dances that use the hold, and romance in our culture?
Is
it a physical proximity? (I find ceilidh holds to be closer, crossed
arms has my hands bearish their belly which has its own intimacy to me,
though sometimes barrel holds can be done with a bit more space - though
I wouldn't say the default)
Is it something else?
Maybe
if we looked at the why, it'd give insight to what a solution to an
alternate swing hold and/or an adjusted mindset might entail?
In dance,
Julian Blechner
He/him
Western Mass