Consider this dance

E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati        Duple Improper           Michael Fuerst                   March, 1991

A1      Balance and swing neighbor.

A2      Men allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner.

B1      Long lines forward and back.  Women chain to neighbor.

B2      Women allemande right (4).
        1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until
           neighbors on the side they started the dance (8).
        Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left  along set to meet new
           neighbors (4).

Using this thread's suggestions, I think this becomes (as long as dancers understand that those starting as second corners always end the swing on the right)

E.J.M.J.F. in Cincinnati        Duple Improper           Michael Fuerst                   March, 1991

A1      Balance and swing neighbor.

A2      First corners allemande left 1 1/2 and swing partner.

B1      Long lines forward and back.  Second corners chain to neighbor.

B2      Second corners allemande right (4).
        1/2 hey, neighbors start passing left shoulder, until
           neighbors on the side they started the dance (8).
        Neighbors pass left shoulders and turn sharply left  along set to meet new
           neighbors (4)
This makes the dance obscure to beginning and intermediate dancers.  Seems best to have  names corresponding to the men's and women's roles, rather than to have dancer's determine which corners they are at any point in the dance.     

 

Michael Fuerst      802 N Broadway      Urbana IL 61801      217 239 5844

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 2:26 AM, Andrea Nettleton via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Actually Alan, because we dance improper most frequently, and becket almost as much, I think I really don't want the labels applied to people so they stick.  I'm just using the word corner the way Brooke and Chris use diagonal.  In contra, we already have a use for the word diagonal, meaning the next pair along across the set to the right or left.  The corner reference we have is actually close to right, probably having grown out of triple minor dances.  Right diagonal is first corner, Left diagonal is second.  Make it fit in a hands four and you have pairs of corners along opposite angles.  It's a place not a person.  Then I can write a dance beginning with a second corner chain, and it will be those formerly identified as gents, but will work totally fine.  If the dance were proper, you could still have a second diagonals chain and it would be one of each 'role'.  A direct transfer of the system to contra is not as useful as adapting, IMHO.

Andrea

Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask

On Jun 2, 2015, at 3:07 AM, Winston, Alan P. <winston@slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

I'm not Andrea but as someone who's appreciated the value of global calling since Chris and Brooke proselytized our West Coast English caller self improvement group about it in 2000 and who regularly uses it even in not gender free English as well as for gender free English I think I can answer.  

The Heather and Rose style (which they didn't invent but have published the most in) is designed for proper longways.  Men's line is left file, ladies line is right file.   In a square or Becket formation gents place are first diagonals, ladies are second diagonals.  Corner is reserved for contra corners and the immediate neighbor in a square. 

However, mainstream English gives us first corners (in a proper set, first gent and second lady) and second corners (first lady and second gent).  If you apply that to a typical improper contra, as Andrea was suggesting, the ladies are on the first corners, the gents on the second corners. 

The answer to each of your questions about how she'd indicate what we now do with gender is to substitute a corner reference.  First corners make a wave in the middle of the set. They back up and second corners come in.  

You'd have to decide whether the same positional reference applies to becket, where it would be the gents, or have the corner assignments apply before you becketize, which would be my preference. 

Does that clear it up ?

Alan

Sent from my iPad

On Jun 1, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Andrea, how would you handle the following:

1. Lines of one role/position to the center to a wavy line, as in Trip to Lambertville, et all?

2. Indication of who walks forward / backs up in a gypsy star?

3. Indication of who-leads-who, such as in Ramsay Chase, Pedal Pushers, Jurassic Redheads, etc.

4. Indication of who is passing while calling a hey.

5. Indication of who crosses, who turns in a box circulate?

6. Indication any other role/position specific move that I haven't mentioned? Turn over right shoulder, as in Fairport Harbour? Rollaways?

None of these fall under the "most unusual figures" as you stated.

Ron

On Jun 1, 2015 11:59 AM, "Andrea Nettleton via Callers" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

In previous discussions here, on FB, and privately with organizers at Hampshire over the last two years, I have discussed the possible use of global terminology for gender free contra.  I would contend that if used, everyone would become more aware of the structure of dances.  Only the most unusual figures/sequences would be unable to be called.  The addition of first and second corner positions to the arsenal makes it possible for same role dancers to also be called upon to dance together without reference to gender.  Second corners chain, or first corners allemande L 1 1/2 for example.  It would have to be agreed that this refers to those standing in those positions at that moment.  In ECD we use first and second corners to refer to the people, first and second diagonals for the positions.  But since we use diagonal to refer to those across and over one set, this seems unhelpful.  Simply corner positions works better.  I'm glad some folks are trying it out at last.  I had hoped for an opportunity myself before now.

Cheers,

Andrea

Sent from my iOnlypretendtomultitask

On Jun 1, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Jim Hemphill via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

The recent discussions on this topic inspired me to try an experiment in gender free calling.  Last night I called the contra dance in St. Louis using gender free calling without telling anyone.    The experiment was a great success.  I received lots of  positive feedback on the evenings dance.  At the break and after the dance I made a point to ask several dancers, some were callers as well, if they noticed anything different or unusual about the dances or how I taught them.   One person noticed that there were more dances that included a swing in the center for couple 2 than usual.  No one I talked to noticed that the calls and teaching were gender free.

 

It took some extra time to construct a fun, diverse 3 hour program, but it is certainly possible.  Re-labeling the dancers is not the only way to call gender free. 

 

If you are interested in the program I used or the larger collection of gender free dances I chose the program from, send me an email,  arcadian35@gmail.com.

 

Thanks,

Jim Hemphill

 

 

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