Hi,

That is a somewhat familiar story from my point of view. I dance in a number of different folk dancing communities - a varied program here in Winnipeg. It's quite common, as people from one group attempt to get interest from other dancing groups, that some people know what they like and what they don't like, and that's that. For example, people who English country dance often don't like contra because of the increased exertion and tempo. Personally, I'm not much of a fan of triple minor dances. Everyone's got their thing. But there's always a reason for it. It could be a bad experience, or it could be a stylistic feature of a region, where everyone does a figure in a way you find unpleasant. Hard to say. To leave an event because someone programmed something you didn't like? ... I'm not sure to make of it. You don't like it you don't like it, I suppose.

We don't do Becket formation here at all, really. If someone left at the end of a night because of Becket formation, I would assume they didn't want to start learning new things late in the evening.

Greg


On Thu, Dec 10, 2015 at 3:01 PM, via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Contra with Hey (jill allen via Callers)
   2. Re: Contra with Hey (Martha Wild via Callers)
   3. Becket Formation (Rich Sbardella via Callers)
   4. Re: Becket Formation (Bill Olson via Callers)
   5. Re: Becket Formation (Michael Fuerst via Callers)
   6. Re: Becket Formation (Mac Mckeever via Callers)
   7. Re: Becket Formation (Ron Blechner via Callers)
   8. Re: Becket Formation (Ron Blechner via Callers)
   9. Re: Becket Formation (Ryan Smith via Callers)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 15:04:46 -0600
From: jill allen via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Contra with Hey
Message-ID: <0B53D2A6-B7C5-47A1-BADB-C4103F7897DA@att.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Here's something new:

Signs of Life
duple improper contra
by Jill Allen

A1  circle R X1, M allem L 1 1/2 to face P
A2  hey for 4, start by passing R
B1  gypsy and swing P (or B & S)
B2  circle L 3/4, balance the ring, calif twirl to face the next..

Also:

Columbia Contra
duple improper contra
by Gene Hubert

A1  Allem R N aprox 1 1/4, W allem L 1/2, allem R P X1 ending with Women facing each other in the middle
A2  hey for 4, W pass L to begin
B1  B & S P
B2  W chain, star L

I call both of these quite frequently.  Both have timing which is forgiving for beginners.
Jill Allen : )


>> Hello Folks,
>> >
>> > I am relatively new at calling contras and I am looking for some asy to intermediate contras to introduce the hey to a group that includes many beginners. and/or club square dancers.
>> >
>> > "Butter" by Gene Hubert is my go to dance, but I am looking for a few more.  I like Butter because the flow from ladies chain into a RH hey is great, and because all the other calls are introduced earlier in most evening.
>> >
>> > I love simple, but different choreography, so I am open to most suggestions.
>> >
>> > Rich Sbardella
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2015 14:06:19 -0800
From: Martha Wild via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: jill allen <jillallen3@att.net>
Cc: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Subject: Re: [Callers] Contra with Hey
Message-ID: <90A3D259-18F8-417B-BEFE-297CA137A9DC@sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The first is very close to Bill Olson?s ?Perihelion? except for slightly different A1. Probably easier than that one though.


> On Dec 9, 2015, at 1:04 PM, jill allen via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> Here's something new:
>
> Signs of Life
> duple improper contra
> by Jill Allen
>
> A1  circle R X1, M allem L 1 1/2 to face P
> A2  hey for 4, start by passing R
> B1  gypsy and swing P (or B & S)
> B2  circle L 3/4, balance the ring, calif twirl to face the next..
>
> Also:
>
> Columbia Contra
> duple improper contra
> by Gene Hubert
>
> A1  Allem R N aprox 1 1/4, W allem L 1/2, allem R P X1 ending with Women facing each other in the middle
> A2  hey for 4, W pass L to begin
> B1  B & S P
> B2  W chain, star L
>
> I call both of these quite frequently.  Both have timing which is forgiving for beginners.
> Jill Allen : )
>
>
>>> Hello Folks,
>>> >
>>> > I am relatively new at calling contras and I am looking for some asy to intermediate contras to introduce the hey to a group that includes many beginners. and/or club square dancers.
>>> >
>>> > "Butter" by Gene Hubert is my go to dance, but I am looking for a few more.  I like Butter because the flow from ladies chain into a RH hey is great, and because all the other calls are introduced earlier in most evening.
>>> >
>>> > I love simple, but different choreography, so I am open to most suggestions.
>>> >
>>> > Rich Sbardella
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
From: Rich Sbardella via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <CAE4BujLNt9vtXn_nJZmja1cKXuqeQk=rEDTa1YsBLW_5bUYG2g@mail.gmail.com>
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Folks,

I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited
dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in
Becket formation.  One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for
the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that
they do not like Beckets.

Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40%
Beckets in a contra  evening.  Is there a negative sentiment about Becket
formation among many dancers?  If so, can someone explain the reason?

Rich
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:20:27 +0000
From: Bill Olson via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID: <BAY177-W138BB5ADB89362DDEC604FC6E90@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Wow, maybe that couple didn't actually know what Becket Formation was?

bill

Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
To: callers@sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net

Folks,
I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in Becket formation.  One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that they do not like Beckets.
Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40% Beckets in a contra  evening.  Is there a negative sentiment about Becket formation among many dancers?  If so, can someone explain the reason?
Rich

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Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:22:56 +0000 (UTC)
From: Michael Fuerst via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Bill Olson <callbill@hotmail.com>,  Caller's discussion list
        <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <1436075088.522886.1449778976699.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Or maybe they were confusing Becket with gypsy....?Michael Fuerst ? ? ?802 N Broadway ? ? ?Urbana IL 61801????? 217 239 5844


    On Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:20 PM, Bill Olson via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:


 #yiv5709207139 #yiv5709207139 --.yiv5709207139hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv5709207139 body.yiv5709207139hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv5709207139 Wow, maybe that couple didn't actually know what Becket Formation was?
?
bill
?
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
To: callers@sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net

Folks,
I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in Becket formation.? One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that they do not like Beckets.
Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40% Beckets in a contra ?evening.? Is there a negative sentiment about Becket formation among many dancers?? If so, can someone explain the reason?
Rich
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Message: 6
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 20:30:36 +0000 (UTC)
From: Mac Mckeever via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Bill Olson <callbill@hotmail.com>,  Caller's discussion list
        <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <1319962807.497814.1449779436578.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The only thing I can imagine is that many Becket dances leave the minor set - making them slightly more complex.? Perhaps they had some bad experiences with a couple dances and haven't given them another chance.
They seem to be different - even though they really aren't - maybe they are just more comfortable with what they are used to.

I would think a Becket is a good choice for a final dance because they can end with a partner swing - an nice way to end the last dance.
Mac McKeever

      From: Bill Olson via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
 To: Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
 Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation

#yiv5824956374 #yiv5824956374 --.yiv5824956374hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv5824956374 body.yiv5824956374hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv5824956374 Wow, maybe that couple didn't actually know what Becket Formation was?
?
bill
?
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
To: callers@sharedweight.net
Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net



Folks,
I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in Becket formation.? One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that they do not like Beckets.
Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40% Beckets in a contra ?evening.? Is there a negative sentiment about Becket formation among many dancers?? If so, can someone explain the reason?
Rich
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Message: 7
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:54:12 -0500
From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Mac Mckeever <macmck@ymail.com>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <CALf+g+7VE9VtDi7VQA_Sp09kBWdd5-3u=-r8VUdgokaoM=vZ+A@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Whoa. Weird story, Mac. Baffled
On Dec 10, 2015 3:30 PM, "Mac Mckeever via Callers" <
callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

> The only thing I can imagine is that many Becket dances leave the minor
> set - making them slightly more complex.  Perhaps they had some bad
> experiences with a couple dances and haven't given them another chance.
>
> They seem to be different - even though they really aren't - maybe they
> are just more comfortable with what they are used to.
>
> I would think a Becket is a good choice for a final dance because they can
> end with a partner swing - an nice way to end the last dance.
>
> Mac McKeever
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Bill Olson via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
> *To:* Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:20 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
>
> Wow, maybe that couple didn't actually know what Becket Formation was?
>
> bill
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
> To: callers@sharedweight.net
> Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
> From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> Folks,
>
> I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited
> dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in
> Becket formation.  One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for
> the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that
> they do not like Beckets.
>
> Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40%
> Beckets in a contra  evening.  Is there a negative sentiment about Becket
> formation among many dancers?  If so, can someone explain the reason?
>
> Rich
>
> _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Callers mailing list
> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>
>
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Message: 8
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:57:28 -0500
From: Ron Blechner via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: Mac Mckeever <macmck@ymail.com>
Cc: Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <CALf+g+5tMiB7WGL9z1w8FhTfBRPtE3XLsvD4uiRp_JY-4k6DDA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Sorry, I meant Rich.
On Dec 10, 2015 3:54 PM, "Ron Blechner" <contraron@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whoa. Weird story, Mac. Baffled
> On Dec 10, 2015 3:30 PM, "Mac Mckeever via Callers" <
> callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
>> The only thing I can imagine is that many Becket dances leave the minor
>> set - making them slightly more complex.  Perhaps they had some bad
>> experiences with a couple dances and haven't given them another chance.
>>
>> They seem to be different - even though they really aren't - maybe they
>> are just more comfortable with what they are used to.
>>
>> I would think a Becket is a good choice for a final dance because they
>> can end with a partner swing - an nice way to end the last dance.
>>
>> Mac McKeever
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Bill Olson via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
>> *To:* Caller's discussion list <callers@sharedweight.net>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, December 10, 2015 2:20 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
>>
>> Wow, maybe that couple didn't actually know what Becket Formation was?
>>
>> bill
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 14:45:17 -0500
>> To: callers@sharedweight.net
>> Subject: [Callers] Becket Formation
>> From: callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I was at a dance not too long ago, and as the caller (not me) invited
>> dancers to join the last dance of the night, he also declared it to be in
>> Becket formation.  One visiting couple, who had been waiting eagerly for
>> the last dance , put on their jackets and left disappointed, stating that
>> they do not like Beckets.
>>
>> Perhaps because I am a square dance caller, I tend to program about 40%
>> Beckets in a contra  evening.  Is there a negative sentiment about Becket
>> formation among many dancers?  If so, can someone explain the reason?
>>
>> Rich
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Callers mailing list
>> Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
>> http://lists.sharedweight.net/listinfo.cgi/callers-sharedweight.net
>>
>>
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Message: 9
Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2015 15:59:37 -0500
From: Ryan Smith via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net>
To: "Caller's discussion list" <callers@sharedweight.net>
Subject: Re: [Callers] Becket Formation
Message-ID:
        <CADqHJvttTVZ9zr-W0wgDKe--HamefjMPqfksQs+wgxTNMp1TnA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

As Mac pointed out, becket dances can be more complex/confusing.  Removing
a need to separate you from your partner at the end of the dance, allows
for some choreographic flexibility.  All the same, most beckets are not
notably more complex/confusing than most improper contras.

My guesses are:
1 - this couple had a bad experience that they associate with 'becket
formation' rather than whatever confounding factors go into making a dance
experience pleasant or unpleasant
2 - was this a contra event (all duple-minors all the time) or a more
varied program?  Maybe the couple doesn't like contras much?
3 - Maybe they are confusing it with some other formation (sicilian, 4 face
4, squares, triplets, etc.)

--Ryan Smith
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