My understanding, and to some extent experience, is that musicians did not like it because the dancers often failed to find the correct beat.

Michael Barraclough 

On 22 May 2024 17:45:44 Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

John Sweeney hit on a big reason I'm baffled, in pointing out that the balances in Petronella (the dance) are in the second half of a phrase. So what's funny is that in the originally Petronella, it's

Spin spin spin pause

Stomp Stomp Stomp Stomp (or steps, but, still)

And in the modern move it's 

Stomp Stomp Stomp stomp

Spin spin spin pause

So the originally Petronella had everyone making percussive noise on that last measure. And the modern move has people filling in that pause with percussive sounds. 

I've heard from people say "you need the beat or two to take hands" but like, somehow that's not true with every other move where a move ends and you need to join hands in a ring immediately - after a swing, bending a line of four, turning to a new neighbor on a progression and readying for a balance, etc.

My summation is it's just a preference. 

And I notice when bands play chiller tunes for Petronella spins, fewer people clap, so... 

...

Anyway, I also very much would love to hear any other explanations of "clapping in Petronellas is wrong".

In dance,

Julian Blechner.

On Wed, May 22, 2024, 12:16 PM Richard Fischer via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hi Maia,

I have no claim to expertise, but I'm with you. In dances where the Petronella claps don't interfere with anything, why not?  Dancers enjoy it, and it can often be one of the first things new dancers notice about unified timing. I'm not sure how it originated, but since the move previously was often spin first then a satisfying balance, maybe the claps were a way to still have that nice rhythmic end to the phrase. In any event, why should a caller tell a hall full of dancers they're wrong?

With best wishes,

Richard Fischer

Arlington, MA

On May 22, 2024, at 11:49 AM, Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

tldr: those of you who are anti-Petronella claps (in general, not just in specific cases where they interrupt flow from the spin into the next move), I want to understand why!

Clapping on Petronella turns has been the overwhelming norm ever since I started dancing, but I know that it wasn't always this way, and that some folks vehemently dislike it. Well recently I've noted the (baffling?? inexplicable??) rise of clapping after the spin on Rory O'Moore's, which makes my blood boil (it's so satisfying to catch hands in the new wave out of the spin, why would you ever NOT do that??), and it's making me think more about Petronella claps.

Clapping on a Rory bugs me so much because it interrupts the momentum of spin-and-catch-hands. I'll admit that I don't understand the objection to Petronella claps, at least through that lens. Like certainly, in a specifically Cure for the Claps-type* dance (with e.g. Petronella spin into allemande left, Petronella spin into swing, etc.), clapping interrupts the momentum, and it's way more satisfying to spin directly into the next move. But given a bog standard "Petronella, Petronella, balance and swing" or similar, I don't feel like the claps interrupt the momentum or disrupt transitions, and in fact are a nice fun way to fill space.

To be clear, the above isn't an argument in favor of Petronella claps, just me explaining where I'm coming from. So now we come to my question:

1. those of you who are anti-Petronella claps, can you explain why? I want to understand! Is it a satisfying momentum thing that I've just never experienced because I'm so used to clapping? Dedication to historical accuracy? Something else entirely?

2. what dance(s) would you use to make your case to a contemporary contra hall, that aren't explicitly written as Cure for the Claps dances? Petronella spin to a swing feels great, and of course you shouldn't clap there (although some folks inexplicably do, sigh)—but if you'd prefer that we didn't clap even in a dance like Tica Tica Timing, then a CftC dance isn't the whole story. If you had the infinite good will of a contemporary contra hall, and were able to say to the dancers "don't clap on the Petronellas in this one and just pay attention to how nice it feels to X and how satisfying it is to Y", what dance would you use, what things would you tell the dancers to clue into, etc. to make your case? (And what would you ask the band for?)

Thanks as always for your expertise!

Cheers,

Maia

* Cure for the Claps contra: a dance that discourages clapping during the Petronella turn, often by putting moves directly after the Petronella that flow nicely from a spin. May be intentional or incidental. See e.g.:  The Cure for the Claps (Bob Isaacs), Becket in the Kitchen (Becky Hill)

--

Maia McCormick (she/her)

917.279.8194

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