My dance (Orlando) gets around 20-25 people, maybe 1/3 - 1/2 new each week.  Also, around 2/3 are women.  So, it isn't possible for us to dance without a bunch of role swapping. Even though I have them partner up in the workshop using a scatter mixer, so there is plenty of same-gender partnering even among the men, when I teach the swing in the very next exercise with the existing partners, there will be some (unrequested by me) shuffling and we have nearly entirely guys dancing with women and standing on the left, and women dancing with women with the more experienced person on the left.  This has most of the new women learning the robin's role, save in the occasional two-beginner-women couple.

For a while I tried teaching the swing from both sides.  It got awkward and uncomfortable for many of the guys (women didn't seem to have a problem with it), so I don't do that anymore.  When I'm asked why we do larks and robins (it's rare that I am), these days I just point out the number of women and say that it's to facilitate role swapping, as otherwise we'd have too many sitting out.

Still, I feel bad about not giving the newbies exposure to both sides of the swing.  The women typically do learn both sides after they're confident, a few evenings later, but it's rare for guys to dance the robin (maybe once a night someone does).  Some of the dancers are religious conservatives, especially the younger ones (homeschoolers, some of them), so I don't push it.  Still, if we had some mechanism that would make it more socially comfortable, I'd be very interested in learning about it.  (Hmm.  Maybe if I had a dance with a larks swing and a partner swing, some of my larks would swap...!  Ok, not going that far with this group.  Not my job to tell them what to like.)

So, I guess this is something like your, "unless you have a preference, whoever is standing on the right of your partnership is the robin for now", with nearly everyone having a preference for the traditional role and some of the experienced women swapping for the good of the dance.

BUT, when we had a college dance in 2022-2023, the story was totally different.  There, we had guys comfortably swapping, just like in many Northern, urban, community dances.  I just taught people in whatever role they were standing in, and I taught both sides.  I didn't tell them to learn one role before learning the other.  Most swapped a lot and did great.  The students mostly taught each other after that, and I did occasionally hear the advice that someone who was less coordinated should stick to a role until they got it basically down.  But, college students are young enough that their brains are still sponges and they learn fast.  It might not work so well for older newbies.

So, I think the answer lies in how much social inertia there is in your group, and what direction it's in.

--jh--

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024 at 1:37 PM Mary Collins via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Maia et al,

I struggle with this as well. Typically I've been sharing a wee bit of history i.e. some dances have been around since George Washington's time and were written for Gents & Ladies. So I line up long ways and indicate that historically one line was gents and the other ladies. Talk a wee bit about proper dance. (Keep in mind WEE BIT, not a history lesson, a sentence.)  Then I introduce the modern concept of gender free and indicate the Lark line & the Robin line and that it is not a gender but a position. Then I flow into alemande,  do-si-do,  hands 4, position in the hands four (ones & twos), swing and where to end...now 

Introduce improper and where Larks & Robins are now. If at this time people who prefer gendered position, will naturally move to that place. Then I add stars, right & left through, chain. Done.

This sometimes feels awkward and I struggle through it. Mostly it works, sometime really well, sometimes not so much, sometimes I just ignore all of it and just teach a simple dance and do teaching as walk through. 

Going to a callers' gathering next (this coming weekend) Saturday and hopefully we can talk about this there.

Love all the sharing.

Mary Collins

WNY

On Sun, Mar 10, 2024, 10:48 AM Maia McCormick via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Hey there, hive mind,

When you're calling larks and robins, during the lesson, how do you

a. explain the roles to the new folks, and

b. put the beginners into roles for the duration of the lesson?

I've seen "try swinging in both roles and see which feels better", I've seen "unless you have a preference, whoever is standing on the right of your partnership is the robin for now", I've seen "pick whichever bird you like better", I've seen "the robin's role is a little easier so do that if you feel less confident"...

I'm curious what folks here do and in what kind of distribution, and how you find it works for you in practice.

(Please please please let's not relitigate gender-free contra or the bird terms in this thread. If you really must, please make a separate thread.)

Swingingly,

Maia

--

Maia McCormick (she/her)

917.279.8194

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