My 2¢  
I agree - it's not always homophobia that is behind the reaction - sometimes it's entire generations of upbringing that make it extremely difficult/awkward for some men to be in a more physically intimate space than they usually find themselves in.
And it's one thing to do an allemande left with another man - you're not as physically close for as long)... many men are only used to being in close proximity with other men in a sports role or a slap on the back "hello" (in the *American* culture - other cultures aren't anywhere near as uptight).

I think that some of the alternative swing suggestions made will go a long way to easing the reactions - they're just less intimate, less of a "threat" of any kind (whether cultural boundaries/homophobia/whatever).

My opinions...

Patricia

Patricia Campbell
southern ME
(she/her)


On Sun, Mar 17, 2024 at 7:24 PM Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
Read and JJ,

This is where I tread carefully, because _all men_ (or nearly so) are raised with some pretty toxic beliefs doused all over them (and women, but they seem to do a bit better than us men at dealing with it). Sometimes it's hard to tell the boundary between "traditional gender roles" versus homophobia. And that's why it's absolutely a reason why it's a touchy subject. 

Anytime "doing X in dancing is homophobic" is brought up, it's:
1. Not always accurate
2. When it is accurate, it's just going to shut down most discussion. No one wants to hear their deeply ingrained societal norms and beliefs are bigoted, right? It's a non-starter for conversation.

That said, lgbtqia folks (myself included) absolutely should talk about the negative effects of it (ex: Two women are split up so men can have partners, or the "dramatic production" JJ mentioned in their reply). It's critical these stories continue to be told so people can understand the harm that is done sometimes in the name of "tradition".

But in terms of how we - as performers and organizers - look forward and improve things, I think if the goal is persuasiveness, it's more effective to let people judge for themselves whether and how their ingrained societal norms are homophobic or not. 

Changing these things is hard work and takes a long time. Gender and sexuality are core parts of our identities, so any discussion of it can be intensely personal for anyone.

In dance,
Julian Blechner
He/him
Western Massachusetts

On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 6:55 PM JJ <jcgj95@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Read! I wanted to add that the times when I (a non-binary person that is generally assumed to be a man) have encountered neighbor men who refuse to swing with me, it has often been accompanied with either thinly-veiled disgust or even an overt "ew I'm not dancing with a man." I'm so sorry that you were physically assaulted, though I'm not surprised.

I agree with Read that this is just general homophobia, and again it makes me worry about the women these men are dancing with, simply because they clearly don't want to "hold a man" in the same way that they are "holding" all the women they neighbor/partner with.
Polite declining is 100% acceptable and I've never been upset by it. But more often than not, men refusing to dance with me has been a rather dramatic production that leaves me feeling icky. 🤷


On Sun, Mar 17, 2024, 11:27 Read Weaver via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
I’m kinda doubtful about how common reason 2 is, I think most of what might superficially seem like insisting on conventional gender roles is actually (men's) homophobia—dancing with a man might make me look like a…, or the man dancing with me might be a…. (I specify men because I’ve never once lived and danced where women were exercised about this—occasionally a preference for mixed-gender, but never a strong one). The guy who assaulted me at NEFFA years ago because he came across me in the line dancing the “wrong” role didn’t do so because I was rejecting conventional gender roles, he did it because of homophobia.

Read Weaver
Jamaica Plain, MA
http://lcfd.org

> On Mar 12, 2024, at 1:36 PM, Julian Blechner via Contra Callers <contracallers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> ...
> - So, when someone says they prefer to dance in non-genderfree dances, with a partner of a different binary-presenting gender person, in trad roles, there's 2 possible, non-exclusive reasons:
> 1. That their choice is about courtship, but "make exceptions" for people you're not attracted to. Which, I guess is fine in and of itself, but I think people with this preference often may not consider _just how many exceptions_ there are.
> 2. Their choice is more about embracing traditional gender roles. I'll get back to this
...
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