Angela, ah....I see said the blind person. Now it makes sense. Will not work in my home ultra conservative community and I will certainly need to practice replacing. It will be interesting to say the least. 

Thanks again!

On Oct 15, 2017 12:21 AM, "Angela DeCarlis" <aedecarlis@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Mary! A lot has already been written on the subject elsewhere, but the summary of why Larks and Ravens has become a great set of terms is that they correlate to the (L)eft and (R)ight positions at the end of a swing. The syllable count is the same when compared to Gent and Lady (or Man and Woman, for that matter), and the terms don't conflict with any dance instructions (like how Lead and Follow would, especially if used to call for English or Square Dancing). 

Another great set of terms are Jets and Rubies, but I've found those labels to be more arbitrary...the main advantage is that the words are phonetically similar to Gents and Ladies...and I'm not sure whether or not that's a good thing! 

I hope this helps clarify things for you, and I thank you in advance for keeping an open mind about trying these new, genderfree terms soon! In the communities I've danced in, I can't tell you how much of a positive difference these terms have made for individual dancers and for the communities on the balance. But again, more on that can be read elsewhere, and I hope to write in with more about my personal experiences as a caller and dance organizer soon!

Angela 

On Oct 14, 2017 2:09 PM, "Mary Collins" <nativedae@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahem Tom...that would be "gender" lol....Seriously, being of the more mature (and I use that term loosely) set, I find all these new names for ROLES to be troublesome and tiresome.  Who exactly is a Lark & who exactly are Ravens?  Because quite frankly I have mental pictures of both....from literature and music and they could be as offending as gents & ladies or women & men....not to try to start anything here.  I am just trying to grasp something that seems to be just a wee bit beyond my reach.  Several of my fellow traveling dance friends (of similar age) do not understand these terms either.  Since I plan to be traveling and hopefully calling in "your community" sometime, I'd really like to get a handle on this.

Mary "24" Collins

Virus-free. www.avg.com

“Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass ... it's about learning to dance in the rain!” ~ Unknown

On Sat, Oct 14, 2017 at 12:15 PM, Tom Hinds <twhinds@earthlink.net> wrote:

Thanks Angela.  If only we could easily change our gender so we could understand what it's like to be the other sex.

On Oct 14, 2017, at 11:32 AM, Angela DeCarlis wrote:

Tom, I had this conversation with Sue Rosen this summer. Women who belong to the original Feminist generation (like Sue and, presumably, like Mary and Martha above) were involved in a cultural movement to abolish the word "Lady", along with its restrictive connotations, in favor of "Woman". The latter label, I understand, was one which lent more power and ownership to its wearers, and so was preferable. You could be however you were, "ladylike" or not, and still be a Woman. (others, please chime in if I've gotten anything wrong or missed anything!)

My generation has an opposite problem: due to the modern-day Gender Revolution, wherein we seek to abolish the gender dichotomy, terms like "Woman" and "Man" feel too restrictive and denotative. "Lady" and "Gent" feel almost more comfortable to some, since they are words that are slightly more flexible, in some ways. 

One of the biggest problems for both groups, I think, is when the terms are used interchangeably. 

This is one of my favorite things to think about when it comes to role terms in dance today! I *love* our community's intergenerationality, and learning about each other through conversations like this!

Eventually I hope to get around to writing in about the changes I've seen at BIDA since switching to Larks and Ravens at the beginning of the summer. It's been truly remarkable! 

'Til then, 

Angela 

On Oct 14, 2017 9:26 AM, "Mary Collins via Callers" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

Martha, I dont recall this dance of which you speak. Could you share the true title and calls? Thanks! I also cringe over ladies (I don't fit that tradition) yet it is a good "place holder, ROLE identifer" for my communities.

On Oct 14, 2017 9:06 AM, "Tom Hinds via Callers" <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:

I must have fallen asleep during a discussion of "ladies".  What's the issue?

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 12:13 PM, Martha Wild via Callers <callers@lists.sharedweight.net> wrote:
>
> I’ve got a gypsy star dance (I actually call it “Star Wrong” and not just because of the g-word, but because if you say “gypsy star” everybody starts to gypsy and NOT star, so I gave up on that confusing terminology). Haven’t seen another dance like it. The move from mad robin into the star wrong actually flows quite well.  I use men and women for roles, not genders. When I first started calling, we considered “lady” to be a four letter word - women’s movement and bra burning and all that. I still find it hard to use the word “lady” and not bristle. Times have changed, now people bristle at men and women. Go figure. I didn’t correct the “g-word” use on this version
_______________________________________________
List Name:  Callers mailing list
List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

_______________________________________________
List Name:  Callers mailing list
List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/

_______________________________________________
List Name:  Callers mailing list
List Address:  Callers@lists.sharedweight.net
Archives:  https://www.mail-archive.com/callers@lists.sharedweight.net/